If it wasn't true

[paarsurrey]

I don’t think you are correct. Dogma can be changed, it just isn’t by tradition.
But, the question remains. If Mary was shown to be defiled before the birth of Jesus, would that have any affect of the faith?

Hi

Every child who is born to a mother under prophetic visitaion of an Angel, a sign of being immaculate, must be respected by the people.

We Muslims believe that Mary was visited by an Angel who informed her of birth of a son who would become a ProphetMessenger for the nation of Israel, without being toched by a human being. That is why we respect Mary and Jesus, and we love both of them.

Thanks

 

[paarsurrey]

Which brings about a great question:
Has any doctrine and/or dogma been changed or reversed?

Hi

Now that is a good question indeed.

I think the Popes have been apologizing for the wrongs done by the Church in the earlier past, and that is a good thing to do, so nothing bars the reversals as such.

Well that is my opinion only, other could differ with me with reason.

Thanks

 

[jmcrae]

Hi

Now that is a good question indeed.

I think the Popes have been apologizing for the wrongs done by the Church in the earlier past, and that is a good thing to do, so nothing bars the reversals as such.

Apples and oranges, my friend. The Pope was apologizing for sins committed by Catholics; he was not reversing any dogmas or doctrines. (Just because we should not have burned down your cities - this, he apologized for - does not mean that your religion is not still an incomplete religion - this, we will never apologize for. )

 

[jmcrae]

To answer the OP, if Mary had not been Immaculate, she most likely would have exploded into her constituent atomic particles at the moment that the Divine One physically touched the inside of her womb, and Jesus would never have been born.

Since we see that He was, we know that she was.

 

[swariffin]

That really isn’t an answer. What if it was decided that the immaculate conception was not any longer supported by the Church? What then?

I suppose the real question is, whether the immaculate conception is necessary for your belief in Christ as savior to the world?

Then the pope is no longer infallible

 

[FaithofAbraham]

Hi

Every child who is born to a mother under prophetic visitaion of an Angel, a sign of being immaculate, must be respected by the people.

We Muslims believe that Mary was visited by an Angel who informed her of birth of a son who would become a ProphetMessenger for the nation of Israel, without being toched by a human being. That is why we respect Mary and Jesus, and we love both of them.

Thanks

Immaculate means you are born without original sin, not a virgin birth. Everyone who dies is born with that original sin, even Jesus.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

The New Covenant allows us access back to the Tree of Life and removes Adam’s sour grape, his original sin of eating from the Tree of Knowledge, that sets our teeth on edge with death.

Jeremiah 31:29-30 In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children’s teeth are set on edge. But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.

 

[jmcrae]

Immaculate means you are born without original sin, not a virgin birth. Everyone who dies is born with that original sin, even Jesus.

Jesus is God; He was certainly not born with original sin. The rest of your post is in accord with Catholic teaching.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

Jesus is God; He was certainly not born with original sin. The rest of your post is in accord with Catholic teaching.

He had to be born with it if he really died. All who die a physical death carry the curse of original sin and death from Adam.

 

[MH84]

To answer the OP, if Mary had not been Immaculate, she most likely would have exploded into her constituent atomic particles at the moment that the Divine One physically touched the inside of her womb, and Jesus would never have been born.

Since we see that He was, we know that she was.

I dont agree. What about when Jesus touched those He was about to heal? What about when the Roman soldiers and Jewish guards daed to put their hands on Him? From a theological POV, whats the difference between Jesus being in Mary’s womb and Jesus physically touching the skin of someone else?

 

[MH84]

He had to be born with it if he really died. All who die a physical death carry the curse of original sin and death from Adam.

He died because of our sins, not His. Otherwise there was no need for our redemption. He physically died because He bore our iniquities.

 

[MH84]

If the immaculate conception was disavowed by the Roman Church would Jesus Christ be diminished in your faith?

My faith in the Church would be diminished, because the Immaculate Conception is an offical declaration of Faith. It wouldnt happen anyway.

 

[swariffin]

He had to be born with it if he really died. All who die a physical death carry the curse of original sin and death from Adam.

Dear FoA,

Jesus is the word of God, already exist with God, and is God. If you believe that Jesus has commited sins please show us so. Jesus carry no original sin. The way Jesus existed in Mary’s woms was already a miracle, and different to any human ever existed including Muhammad (Unless you denied it too).

 

[FaithofAbraham]

Dear FoA,

Jesus is the word of God, already exist with God, and is God. If you believe that Jesus has commited sins please show us so. Jesus carry no original sin. The way Jesus existed in Mary’s woms was already a miracle, and different to any human ever existed including Muhammad (Unless you denied it too).

Original sin has nothing to do with our own sins, it has to do with Adam’s sin, and the curse of physical death he passed onto all of us. That’s why they call it the ORIGINAL sin, not the new sin that you are responsible for.

If you say Jesus died then he had the curse too, original sin is the only reason people are dying a physical death.

 

[MH84]

Original sin has nothing to do with our own sins, it has to do with Adam’s sin, and the curse of physical death he passed onto all of us. That’s why they call it the ORIGINAL sin, not the new sin that you are responsible for.

If you say Jesus died then he had the curse too, original sin is the only reason people are dying a physical death.

This reasoning is altered when you consider that Jesus voluntarily gave up His life. He didnt have to die, but that was God’s will.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

He died because of our sins, not His. Otherwise there was no need for our redemption. He physically died because He bore our iniquities.

Jesus died because Adam sinned and passed the curse of original sin on the world. So when he refused to shut up about God, Jews sent him to the cross. Because he risked his life, God honored him with the role of High Priest who sends up our prayers to God to make atonement for our own sins, not Adam’s sin.

That’s how we are saved, by repenting to God of our sins, and going through Jesus to do it. Then when we are forgiven and washed clean sufficiently, and that may require Purgatory, we get to go eat from the Tree of Life, THEN that’s where Adam’s Original Sin is abolished.

Not just because he died on the cross, or our belief in that, although that is the starting point to acknowledging Jesus as this Messiah and High Priest who makes atonement for us when we repent.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

This reasoning is altered when you consider that Jesus voluntarily gave up His life. He didnt have to die, but that was God’s will.

If he refused God he would have died anyway and God would find another Messiah to take his place, then Jesus would be just like the rest of us following that Messiah. But that’s not how it is so there is no sense in discussing it.

 

[swariffin]

Jesus died because Adam sinned and passed the curse of original sin on the world. So when he refused to shut up about God, Jews sent him to the cross. Because he risked his life, God honored him with the role of High Priest who sends up our prayers to God to make atonement for our own sins, not Adam’s sin.

That’s how we are saved, by repenting to God of our sins, and going through Jesus to do it. Then when we are forgiven and washed clean sufficiently, and that may require Purgatory, we get to go eat from the Tree of Life, THEN that’s where Adam’s Original Sin is abolished.

Not just because he died on the cross, or our belief in that, although that is the starting point to acknowledging Jesus as this Messiah and High Priest who makes atonement for us when we repent.

Dear FoA,

This is interesting, where do you get this idea from? As fas as I know this is neither Christianity, nor Islam, nor Judaism.

 

[MH84]

Jesus died because Adam sinned and passed the curse of original sin on the world. So when he refused to shut up about God, Jews sent him to the cross. Because he risked his life, God honored him with the role of High Priest who sends up our prayers to God to make atonement for our own sins, not Adam’s sin.

That’s how we are saved, by repenting to God of our sins, and going through Jesus to do it. Then when we are forgiven and washed clean sufficiently, and that may require Purgatory, we get to go eat from the Tree of Life, THEN that’s where Adam’s Original Sin is abolished.

Not just because he died on the cross, or our belief in that, although that is the starting point to acknowledging Jesus as this Messiah and High Priest who makes atonement for us when we repent.

If Jesus’ death did not make atonement for sins, how is His High Priesltly role any different to that of other Jewish high priests. What I mean is that all the other high priests were performing sacrifices for the sins of themselves and the people already, but those sacrifices had to be repeated over and over again because they were imperfect.

I don’t think that Jesus died and then became High Priest. He was High Priest because of the perfect sacrifice of Himself on Calvary. What was the point of Jesus giving up His life so that he could merely be Mediator? Moses was a mediator between God and men and he didnt have to die so he could perform that role.

 

[MH84]

Dear FoA,

This is interesting, where do you get this idea from? As fas as I know this is neither Christianity, nor Islam, nor Judaism.

I agree!

 

[FaithofAbraham]

Dear FoA,

This is interesting, where do you get this idea from? As fas as I know this is neither Christianity, nor Islam, nor Judaism.

Just the Bible. Jesus said we need to still repent, that many would try to say we are covered by his death without need for repenting, but he would send them away.

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Then when we repent and are forgiven of sin by going through Jesus as High Priest, we can eat from the Tree of Life and that will be the end of Adam’s curse on all his children of earth. But we can’t even get to the Tree if we don’t repent.