If it wasn't true

[CalmDownWisWins]

Thanks, but I do not expect to find truth in this life. Someday, but not in life. Catholics think they already have found truth.

So truth exists, but is not knowable by man?

Why do you believe in “someday” which is not “in this life”?

Is THAT a truth? Why is THAT truth special such that it is knowable?

If that truth is knowable, why are our truths not knowable?

(( You fascinate me, Name! I really must know how you can say what you can say. Please stay with us. ))

 

[Namesake]

So truth exists, but is not knowable by man?

Why do you believe in “someday” which is not “in this life”?

Is THAT a truth? Why is THAT truth special such that it is knowable?

If that truth is knowable, why are our truths not knowable?

(( You fascinate me, Name! I really must know how you can say what you can say. Please stay with us. ))

I just believe that God will make all things clear, but not while we are living. Humans are incapable of understanding many things, such as creation.

I can’t imagine why you are fascinated by me…

 

[mark_a]

If the immaculate conception was disavowed by the Roman Church would Jesus Christ be diminished in your faith?

The closest I can come to answering this question is to say that if the Church had never taught the Immaculate Conception, my faith would not be diminished.

It would be different, but not diminished.

Your question is like asking “if Jesus hadn’t sent Muhammed to correct Jews and Christians . . . . .”

 

[sodak]

So OK, I get it. This is a Catholic site, and what else would I expect other than a lot of devout Catholics defending their faith albeit in a most distastful way.

People here generally don’t do that unless they are treated in a most distasteful way first. This is, after all, a Catholic site. We do expect some civility towards our beliefs.

In any event, you alone are the one who has to make the choice for conversion, and it should be based on a search for the truth. To base it on members of an organization rather than on the organization itself is a grave error. But I suspect you knew that already.

 

[jmcrae]

So OK, I get it. This is a Catholic site, and what else would I expect other than a lot of devout Catholics defending their faith albeit in a most distastful way.

This is the Internet. Things get kind of wild and woolly on the Internet - I doubt anyone would convert to your church based upon what they read on CARM, or christian.net, or FreshHope, either.

I bet if you were receiving messages from people who go to those sites to learn about Protestantism, complaining how “mean” everybody is and how they could never be Protestant because of how “mean” everybody is, you’d ask them to come and meet you in person before making a final decision on that.

 

[mark_a]

Catholics think they already have found truth.

You are overreaching a bit.

Catholics don’t know all the truth. But whatever is declared by the Church to be truth is in fact true.

 

[Namesake]

You are overreaching a bit.

Catholics don’t know all the truth. But whatever is declared by the Church to be truth is in fact true.

I don’t believe that. The church isn’t always right. Golly, don’t you ever get tired of letting an organization of people determine what you must believe? That isn’t much of a life in my opinion.

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

I don’t believe that. The church isn’t always right. Golly, don’t you ever get tired of letting an organization of people determine what you must believe? That isn’t much of a life in my opinion.

I guess we could just have you tell us what we must believe… I suppose that would make for a better life.

God bless

 

[Namesake]

I guess we could just have you tell us what we must believe… I suppose that would make for a better life.

God bless

You all have a corner on that market, telling others what they must believe.

 

[mark_a]

I don’t believe that. The church isn’t always right. Golly, don’t you ever get tired of letting an organization of people determine what you must believe? That isn’t much of a life in my opinion.

Could you give me an example of false Church teaching concerning morals?

 

[jmcrae]

I don’t believe that. The church isn’t always right.

Well, somebody has to be - Jesus promised it. To whom did He make that promise, if not to St. Peter, first Pope of the Catholic Church?

Was there a Protestant standing next to St. Peter, whom Jesus was actually addressing, with St. Peter just listening in? And if so, which one?

 

[LilyM]

You all have a corner on that market, telling others what they must believe.

It’s Jesus who does that through the Church … and it’s called teaching, by the way … just so you know who to address the complaint letters to

 

[joeybaggz]

Namesake:
You said
“Catholics think they already have found truth.”

Actually, The Truth found us. And that Truth permeates our Church and our lives. He just does it on His time.

I teach in the RC program. Recently, I had a man who came through that program about four years ago come up to me after mass about a month ago and say, “I finally get it”. When I asked what he meant he said that he finally understood what I said in a class about the Eucharist and the real presence of Christ. We laughed about it, and being a cradle Catholic, I told him it took me about forty years.

At least in my little corner of the world, we don’t demand that anyone wishing to investigate and possibly come into the church, categorically believe everything all at once. We just ask that one “be open to the possibility”. It’s another way of saying that we recognize each individual’s unique understanding of truth, and that God works His will on His time.
I offer that if you’re looking for a Saul of Tarsus/Road to Damascus moment, you’ll probably be disappointed.

You also said that the Church isn’t always right. If you’re talking practice, you’ll find a lot of people who agree with you, right up to the top guy in Rome. If you are talking dogma, teaching authority, and core beliefs, understanding CC teaching takes some time. (and some patience with the people who teach it ) Good luck in finding what you seek.

Shalom

 

[2ndGen]

I don’t believe that. The church isn’t always right. Golly, don’t you ever get tired of letting an organization of people determine what you must believe? That isn’t much of a life in my opinion.

Can you provide a doctrine that is wrong?

 

[2ndGen]

Well, somebody has to be - Jesus promised it. To whom did He make that promise, if not to St. Peter, first Pope of the Catholic Church?

Was there a Protestant standing next to St. Peter, whom Jesus was actually addressing, with St. Peter just listening in? And if so, which one?

Judas protested Christ.

 

[jmcrae]

Judas protested Christ.

So, Jesus was giving the keys of the Kingdom to Judas? (Where is Judas’ church, today?)

 

[2ndGen]

So, Jesus was giving the keys of the Kingdom to Judas? (Where is Judas’ church, today?)

No, Judas was the “protestant” among the group:

Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words

Prot·es·tant
4. (lowercase) a person who protests.

My answer to:

Was there a Protestant standing next to St. Peter, whom Jesus was actually addressing, with St. Peter just listening in? And if so, which one?

But I have actual video tape proof that Peter was the only one to whom Jesus gave The Keys of The Kingdom of Heaven to!

youtube.com/watch?v=nVDotEw9vZE

 

[jmcrae]

No, Judas was the “protestant” among the group:

Dictionary.com
Prot·es·tant
4. (lowercase) a person who protests.

No doubt. Did he found a church? Where is it today? If it exists, should Christians prefer to belong to Judas’ Church, or St. Peter’s?

This is my question.

 

[2ndGen]

No doubt. Did he found a church? Where is it today? If it exists, should Christians prefer to belong to Judas’ Church, or St. Peter’s?

This is my question.

Universal Christians should only be in The Petrine Church!

Now, all those “other” churches started by men?

We can’t tell them what to do. Only their leaders can, but all Universal Christians MUST go to The Church that Jesus Christ founded upon Simon Bar Jonah!

 

[2ndGen]

No doubt. Did he found a church? Where is it today? If it exists, should Christians prefer to belong to Judas’ Church, or St. Peter’s?

This is my question.

Plus, the only thing that Judas found was “the end of a rope”.