If it wasn't true

[inchrist101]

What if The Bible states that The Pope cannot teach in error, then you’d say that you trust The Pope because The Bible says so, right?

Absolutely!!!

2 Timothy 3: 14 But you must remain faithful to the things you have been taught. You know they are true, for you know you can trust those who taught you. 15 You have been taught the holy Scriptures from childhood, and they have given you the wisdom to receive the salvation that comes by trusting in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives. It corrects us when we are wrong and teaches us to do what is right. 17 God uses it to prepare and equip his people to do every good work.

Need I say more. I noticed that you state that certain events in the Bible are in error. Please tell me where.

God Bless.

 

[2ndGen]

Namesake:
Your impression is very wrong. The Catholic Church through the bishops, theologians and the people are constantly looking and reviewing it’s teachings. Of all church’s the Catholic encourges the exploration of the faith and we are very free to think for ourselves.
There are centain dogmas, such as those on Mary, that are the foundations of the faith. These teachings, as we believe, were developed through the guidance of the Holy Spirit, often in response to the type of questions on this thread.
Often with questions like this on Mary, I think people are attempting to put their own human understanding of life above that of God. Is it possible for a person to be born without sin(Immaculate Concemption) as with Mary, yes, all things are possible with God. Is it possible for Mary to have remained a virgin, yes, God would have given her the graces to do so. This is a very simple explaination to a belief in which volumns have been written.
I think the original question is a gocha type of question. If this isn’t true, then how can you possibly believe the rest of your faith. Our faith though, at least mine, is not based just on one doctrine or dogma. It is based on the life, death and resurrection of Christ.
Peace,
FAB

And (FAB) if I may add on…

Catholicism doesn’t require full knowledge of every doctrine. Some think that a Christian HAS TO know everything doctrinally, but scriptures teaches us the opposite, that we can never be “like” God for that would make us God.

In fact, it teaches us to just focus on working out our salvation and to not dwell on things that are beyond our grasp intellectually.

Catholicism is The Thinking Man’s Religion.

It is reasonable.
It is historical.
It is true.
It is logical.
It has never been proven to teach in error.

With a track record like that,
why question truth?

One must bend their minds to The Scriptures,
not The Scriptures to their minds.

 

[2ndGen]

Absolutely!!!

2 Timothy 3: 14 But you must remain faithful to the things you have been taught. You know they are true, for you know you can trust those who taught you. 15 You have been taught the holy Scriptures from childhood, and they have given you the wisdom to receive the salvation that comes by trusting in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives. It corrects us when we are wrong and teaches us to do what is right. 17 God uses it to prepare and equip his people to do every good work.

Need I say more. I noticed that you state that certain events in the Bible are in error. Please tell me where.

God Bless.

You might have me confused with someone on the Bible teaching in error. I never said that.

And I love that quote of yours.

As great a defense for Tradition as I’ve ever seen!

 

[FaithofAbraham]

The Bible is from God, but not written by God. It was written by men through the ispiration of God. As such the human element cannont be eliminated from the equation. Catholic teaching is that the bible is without error in matters of salvation. Through biblical studies and criticisms we know that not everything in the bible happened as it is recorded.
The point is that you cannot say I quoted from the bible and that is final.

Peace,
FAB

Sure I can, at least on that point. How are you going to refute the idea of original sin?

 

[inchrist101]

You might have me confused with someone on the Bible teaching in error. I never said that.

And I love that quote of yours.

As great a defense for Tradition as I’ve ever seen!

Sorry 2ndgen I thought I read it on your post. Glad you liked the reference to scripture. Among one of my many favorites.

 

[2ndGen]

Sorry 2ndgen I thought I read it on your post. Glad you liked the reference to scripture. Among one of my many favorites.

No problemo!

 

[fbl9]

If the immaculate conception was disavowed by the Roman Church would Jesus Christ be diminished in your faith?

…first off there is no Roman church as i know of there is the catholic church who’s bishop is in rome. if that is the the one you are refering to then my answer would be yes i would have no faith in Jesus Christ at all.why? God can not live within one who is in sin.therefore for Jesus to have lived inside Mary’s body if she was in sin would make HIM just another man.

 

[2ndGen]

…first off there is no Roman church as i know of there is the catholic church who’s bishop is in rome. if that is the the one you are refering to then my answer would be yes i would have no faith in Jesus Christ at all.why? God can not live within one who is in sin.therefore for Jesus to have lived inside Mary’s body if she was in sin would make HIM just another man.

Oh yes…The Church is in it’s own sovereign city state known as “Vatican City” which is not “in” Rome, but surrounded by the city of Rome as we are surrounded by Canada and Mexico.

 

[po18guy]

That really isn’t an answer. What if it was decided that the immaculate conception was not any longer supported by the Church? What then?

I suppose the real question is, whether the immaculate conception is necessary for your belief in Christ as savior to the world?

It is how He arrived. It is integral. It will not change because it cannot change. Does it diminish your belief in Christ because it’s true? This is more a question for you to answer. It sounds like wishful thinking to avoid having to become Catholic.

If you truly love Christ with all your heart, you would rush to the Catholic church when you were convinced that’s where He lives.

Christ’s peace.

 

[FAB]

Sure I can, at least on that point. How are you going to refute the idea of original sin?

I won’t. The teaching on sin is a matter is a matter of salvation. Adam and Eve’s fall was because they disobeyed the will of God. Through out the scriptures we see examples of God’s forgivness ultimately with him sending his son. Christ’s death and resurrection has saved us from sin. Through our baptism, we share in that salvation.

Peace,
FAB

 

[Namesake]

It is how He arrived. It is integral. It will not change because it cannot change. Does it diminish your belief in Christ because it’s true?

Actually it has no impact one way or the other.

If you truly love Christ with all your heart, you would rush to the Catholic church when you were convinced that’s where He lives.

Had I rushed to the RCC I would not have had this wonderful opportunity to discover why I could never be Catholic.

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

Quote:
Originally Posted by po18guy
It is how He arrived. It is integral. It will not change because it cannot change. Does it diminish your belief in Christ because it’s true?

Actually it has no impact one way or the other.

You left out the “on me” in your sentence above. You are correct as it applies to you, because you are your own “pope” and are free to pick and choose what you want to believe as it makes you “comfy”.

Quote:
If you truly love Christ with all your heart, you would rush to the Catholic church when you were convinced that’s where He lives.

Had I rushed to the RCC I would not have had this wonderful opportunity to discover why I could never be Catholic.

Never? Cool. I want to hear about how you could NEVER become Catholic! Do tell?

It may in fact be similar to how I could NEVER EVER (upped the ante there! ) become anything BUT Catholic!

 

[FAB]

Actually it has no impact one way or the other.

Had I rushed to the RCC I would not have had this wonderful opportunity to discover why I could never be Catholic.

To follow Christ is an invitation. Christ didn’t command the apostles to follow Him, it was an invitation. Their hearts were stirred and freely gave their lives in service to Him.
He is also calling you, the question you have to ask yourself, is are you going to follow. Once you follow and give your heart to Him, read and follow His words, that is what will impact you.
You seem to have problem with the RCC. It most likely comes from a misunderstanding of it’s teaching or no knowledge. In either case you need to look for the truth. Just questioning the practices and belief’s of another faith won’t get you there. Perhaps looking for the reasons behind those beliefs will.
To become Catholic is also an invitation.

Peace,
FAB

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

The Bible is from God, but not written by God. It was written by men through the ispiration of God. As such the human element cannont be eliminated from the equation. Catholic teaching is that the bible is without error in matters of salvation. Through biblical studies and criticisms we know that not everything in the bible happened as it is recorded.
The point is that you cannot say I quoted from the bible and that is final.

Peace,
FAB

Catholic teaching is that the Bible is totally without error - and its inerrancy is not limited to matters of faith & morals. This is a dogma.​

There is ambiguity in precisely what is involved in total inerrancy (it breaks down if applied to grammar or reasoning in the Bible, for instance) - but the notion of an inerrancy limited to faith and morals is a condemned error. Leo XIII, Benedict XV & Pius XII could not have been clearer in condemning it.

You’re right about criticism of course - but that complicates the dogma hugely. Nonethless, it is formally heretical to to deny total inerrancy - according to Cardinal Ratzinger (as he then was), who said that in 1998.

I’m not saying I agree with the dogma - only saying what it is.

There is an entire thread on the subject in the Scripture forum

 

[Namesake]

To follow Christ is an invitation. Christ didn’t command the apostles to follow Him, it was an invitation. Their hearts were stirred and freely gave their lives in service to Him.
He is also calling you, the question you have to ask yourself, is are you going to follow. Once you follow and give your heart to Him, read and follow His words, that is what will impact you.
You seem to have problem with the RCC. It most likely comes from a misunderstanding of it’s teaching or no knowledge. In either case you need to look for the truth. Just questioning the practices and belief’s of another faith won’t get you there. Perhaps looking for the reasons behind those beliefs will.
To become Catholic is also an invitation.

Peace,
FAB

That was well done.

When I came to this web site I was on the verge of converting. Immediately I found people abusing other people. I felt like I was observing people getting beat over the head with Catholic arguments. Then I started interacting and I got beat over the head. That kind of pushy aggressive approach is counter productive to say the least.

So OK, I get it. This is a Catholic site, and what else would I expect other than a lot of devout Catholics defending their faith albeit in a most distastful way.

 

[FAB]

Catholic teaching is that the Bible is totally without error - and its inerrancy is not limited to matters of faith & morals. This is a dogma. ​

This is niether the Church’s teaching or dogma.
As I said the Church’s teaching is that the bible is without error in matters of salvation.

Peace,
FAB

 

[itsjustdave1988]

The question clings to a false dichotomy which attempts to separate the Church from Jesus Christ. The Church is the body of Christ.

During Paul’s conversion, Jesus told Paul he was persecuting him. Paul asked who it was that was speaking. Jesus responded that it was Jesus of Nazareth that you are persecuting. How could Paul, by persecuting the Church of Christ, be persecuting Jesus Himself? Because the Church and Jesus are one. Always has been, always will be. When this is understood, the question becomes absurd. Those who claim to reject the Church but “instead” accept Jesus have seriously misunderstood the deposit of Faith.

St. Paul the Apostle, on this the feast day of your converions, pray for us.

 

[FAB]

That was well done.

When I came to this web site I was on the verge of converting. Immediately I found people abusing other people. I felt like I was observing people getting beat over the head with Catholic arguments. Then I started interacting and I got beat over the head. That kind of pushy aggressive approach is counter productive to say the least.

So OK, I get it. This is a Catholic site, and what else would I expect other than a lot of devout Catholics defending their faith albeit in a most distastful way.

I encourage and invite you to find a Catholic Church and make inquiries. We have a process called RCIA which begins by asking about your beleifs about God and can answer your questions of the Church. By walking into a Catholic church does not automaticlly make you Catholic. You will find ministers that will welcome you and answer your question without condemnations. If you are not satified, there is no pressure to continue. Each step is your choice and your discernment.
On the occations that I visit this site, I to find it a bit argumentative. People here have great passions and often miss the point of evangilization. I will pray for you, that you will find what you are looking for, and that God leads you to the path of his truth.

Peace,
Frank

 

[Namesake]

I encourage and invite you to find a Catholic Church and make inquiries. We have a process called RCIA which begins by asking about your beleifs about God and can answer your questions of the Church. By walking into a Catholic church does not automaticlly make you Catholic. You will find ministers that will welcome you and answer your question without condemnations. If you are not satified, there is no pressure to continue. Each step is your choice and your discernment.
On the occations that I visit this site, I to find it a bit argumentative. People here have great passions and often miss the point of evangilization. I will pray for you, that you will find what you are looking for, and that God leads you to the path of his truth.

Peace,
Frank

Thanks, but I do not expect to find truth in this life. Someday, but not in life. Catholics think they already have found truth.

 

[FAB]

Thanks, but I do not expect to find truth in this life. Someday, but not in life. Catholics think they already have found truth.

Dear Namesake:
I agree with you. This life is the search for truth, I believe it we can have a greater understanding through Christ, but never all the answers or all the truth. I am a craddle to grave, as we call ourselves, and despite years of study, do not believe or will ever believe I have found total truth, untill I meet my Lord. Any person who thinks they have is being dishonest with themselves, that includes many Catholics but that is certainly a miniority.
We are fellow travelers, I wish you well on your journey.

Peace,
FAB