L
LutheranScholar
Guest
As grievous as the division between us and the WELS and ELS ( Evangelical Lutheran Synod) is to us, we have been engaged in dialogue in hopes of overcoming those differences that led to the departure from altar and pulpit fellowship:Yes it will certainly be interesting to see what happens. My point was simply it’s difficult to know who are the real Lutherans are as a Catholic. You note many in the LCMS don’t consider those in the ELCA/LWF to be real Lutherans. I highly doubt they agree with that.
We had a Lutheran Priest on this forum who addressed the Pope as Antichrist issue and noted it’s not a Lutheran tenet of Faith anymore. He spent quite a bit of time in seminary.
We see that the Confessional Lutherans albeit united under the umbrella of Confessional have no altar and pulpit fellowship. I am thinking of Wels and LCMS relations.
Thus as a Catholic you read the headlines " Catholics and Lutherans come to some agreement on the Doctrine of Justification" or “Catholics and Lutherans together commemorate the Reformation; remove mutual anathemas” and think ok.
Next thing you know you have a confessional Lutheran saying “Oh NO the Pope is the Antichrist”
Well, as “confessional” Lutheran do the LCMS and WELS ever get together and duke it out with the LWF/ELCA specifically and try to iron on what Lutherans really do collectively believe today?
It’s beyond the realm how fragmented the church is Lutheran. No Catholic unless they have a huge interest in it can be up to date on what is still a hangover from the 16th century days like the antichrist doctrine and what Lutherans today really believe. You can say it’s so, and yet Father K who was well liked on this board says you are wrong.
Mary.
“[Nearly] 55 years after the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod and 60 years after the Evangelical Lutheran Synod suspended fellowship with the Missouri Synod, the three synods have been engaged in informal discussion for the past three years,” said the Rev. Dr. Albert B. Collver III, director of LCMS Church Relations. “The informal discussions have resulted in the recognition that the three synods … have significant agreement in the primary areas of theology. We also recognize that a great deal of additional conversation and work must continue on areas where we do not have full agreement.”blogs.lcms.org/2015/lcms-wels-els-report. As far as LCMS and ELCA dialogue… well, here’s a quote from a meeting between the two bodies from the opposition’s website: “The Missouri Synod believes that these proposals are yet another unfortunate
example of how our two churches are continuing to move farther away from one another, in terms
of our theological understandings and confessional commitments,” Barry said. “It would be our
feeling that through the adoption of these proposals, you would in reality be moving away from the
scriptural and confessional position of historic Lutheranism.”
Barry later told reporters he appreciated comments the Rev. H. George Anderson,
presiding bishop of the ELCA, made to the assembly and agreed that he “would like to see our two
churches on converging rather than diverging courses.”
Recently Barry authored a pamphlet on “The Differences Between the ELCA and the
LCMS” outlining how he feels the two churches disagree over the Bible, the Lutheran Confessions
and the criteria for church fellowship. “The LCMS believes that the Bible is actually the Word of
God,” he wrote. “The ELCA, on the other hand, avoids making statements that confess the full
truthfulness of the Bible.”
“It comes as no surprise that the ELCA would consider it possible to enter into fellowship
with churches that teach things that are clearly contrary to the Word of God,” said the president,
claiming such arrangements reflect the ELCA’s attitude toward the Bible. “This attitude is
contrary to the confessional principle of the Lutheran church.”
“The differences between our two churches are a source of great sadness for the
LCMS,” Barry concluded, adding that those differences may also provide “a wonderful
opportunity to wrestle with the questions” generated by understanding them.
The pamphlet is one of a series of eight brochures sent to about 8,000 LCMS pastors.
Barry’s office has sent out nearly 200,000 of the ELCA-LCMS pamphlet in response to requests.
“The brochure is but an example of what has been happening over some time. It is a
symptom rather than the issue,” said the Rev. Jon S. Enslin, bishop of the ELCA’s South-Central
Synod of Wisconsin, Madison, Wis. “I grieve what I see is a widening separation.”
“We have much to learn from and to gain from a church that is as theologically careful
as the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod,” Enslin said, “but it is hard to be in a theological dialogue
with someone who is always telling you that you’re wrong … or you’re not really Lutheran.”
“The brochure makes the necessary theological dialogue more difficult,” said Enslin. "It
is one thing to dialogue with someone with whom you do not agree, to learn more of them and
maybe even ask questions of yourself. It is another thing to see yourself as the only right one and
you are saving them from themselves."elca.org/News-and-Events/3118