if Muslims don't beleive in the same God as Christians, do Jews

[Montalban]

I see Islamic explanations for this and other things all the time. They are just not accepted.

So what? From supposition you’ve skipped now over to truisms.

I make a statement about Islam.

You suppose there must be an answer. Well, that wraps that debate up then doesn’t it. There just must be. Debate over.

And of course people like me would never agree to whatever it is that they say (which we still don’t know, but know it just is out there). Well that proves heaps too, doesn’t it.

 

[Valke2]

So what? From supposition you’ve skipped now over to truisms.

I make a statement about Islam.

You suppose there must be an answer. Well, that wraps that debate up then doesn’t it. There just must be. Debate over.

And of course people like me would never agree to whatever it is that they say (which we still don’t know, but know it just is out there). Well that proves heaps too, doesn’t it.

I’ve seen at least two threads where muslims have explained the Koran’s view on the death of Jesus. Your statement that Islam believes in a deceitful God because God tricked the people about Jesus’ death doesn’t really invite a whole lot of discussion. And quite frankly, the muslim view doesn’t seem that different than the Christian view. After all Jesus came back after 3 days, so his public crucifixion was a kind of deceit.

 

[Angelos]

I’ve seen at least two threads where muslims have explained the Koran’s view on the death of Jesus. Your statement that Islam believes in a deceitful God because God tricked the people about Jesus’ death doesn’t really invite a whole lot of discussion. And quite frankly, the muslim view doesn’t seem that different than the Christian view. After all Jesus came back after 3 days, so his public crucifixion was a kind of deceit.

Valke, you must be pulling my leg while saying that Christ’s crucifixion was a kind of deceit! Deception entails fakery and means making someone to believe in something that’s unreal. The Lord’s passion and death were by no means untrue as well as His resurrection. I am afraid you are interpreting Jesus’ death and resurrection from a Jewish perspective, and your denial of the resurrection makes you assume that the passion was not real either. Nonetheless, the New Testament never claims that Jesus’ death or resurrection was based upon lies or had fake elements.
On the other hand, Allah in the Quran makes a miracle and creates an illusion (a fake Jesus to be crucified) in order to make Jesus’ passion seem real! This aims, of course, to deceive the Jews (make fools of them) through an argument that cannot be debunked easily since it is impossible to prove the opposite.

Be sure that Mohammed’s Allah uses Jesus as a perfect instrument of degrading and mocking the Jews, which is one of the main weapons of the anti-Semitic campaign in the Quran. Jesus in the Gospels is the lamb of God, whose true sacrificial death redeems the humanity whereas Issa son of Meryem in the Quran is a pathetic messenger of Allah, whose fake death enables Mohammed to deride the Jews of his period.

Shalom to you

 

[Valke2]

Valke, you must be pulling my leg while saying that Christ’s crucifixion was a kind of deceit! Deception entails fakery and means making someone to believe in something that’s unreal. The Lord’s passion and death were by no means untrue as well as His resurrection. I am afraid you are interpreting Jesus’ death and resurrection from a Jewish perspective, and your denial of the resurrection makes you assume that the passion was not real either. Nonetheless, the New Testament never claims that Jesus’ death or resurrection was based upon lies or had fake elements.
On the other hand, Allah in the Quran makes a miracle and creates an illusion (a fake Jesus to be crucified) in order to make Jesus’ passion seem real! This aims, of course, to deceive the Jews (make fools of them) through an argument that cannot be debunked easily since it is impossible to prove the opposite.

Be sure that Mohammed’s Allah uses Jesus as a perfect instrument of degrading and mocking the Jews, which is one of the main weapons of the anti-Semitic campaign in the Quran. Jesus in the Gospels is the lamb of God, whose true sacrificial death redeems the humanity whereas Issa son of Meryem in the Quran is a pathetic messenger of Allah, whose fake death enables Mohammed to deride the Jews of his period.

Shalom to you

I think you misunderstood what I was saying. Taking the resurrection for fact (for the purposes of my post), the fact that the death was public and the resurrection was private can be viewed as a kind of deception on the people.

 

[Montalban]

I’ve seen at least two threads where muslims have explained the Koran’s view on the death of Jesus.

I haven’t. If you’re aware of this evidence, even if you’re not saying you support it, why not reference it?

Your statement that Islam believes in a deceitful God because God tricked the people about Jesus’ death doesn’t really invite a whole lot of discussion.

Neither does your “Oh there’s a response somewhere else” comment

And quite frankly, the muslim view doesn’t seem that different than the Christian view. After all Jesus came back after 3 days, so his public crucifixion was a kind of deceit.

Say what?

 

[evangelist]

Many idols. One God. That is my belief. What’s the difference how many gods were worshipped in Mecca at one time? Islam doesn’t worship them.

Are you saying muslims and jews worship money, but christians only worship Jesus? Is that your final answer?

No! islam was created and invented from paganism,and if you were to do some research about Islam and muhammed you will see allah or the original name al-lat was created to be a one god over the other gods inmecca so in a way to keep some order, because they all thought they had the correct god as well.
Jew just have satan as their god, as unbelievers in Christ .
No Christ or Son of God No Father Jehovah , God , the great I AM.

 

[evangelist]

There’s only one God. That’s the one we have.

Isn’t satan the god of the earth or planet??

So there is a satan god.

Also there is God almighty

one satan god.

Yes ! one almighty God!

We Christians and the bible God , the Cod of abraham is the God almighty , the Son of God which is God manifested into flesh to die for us, which Jews and muslims rejects.

 

[evangelist]

Sorry, evangelist. No offense intended. This is what triggered my suspicion that you were JW: **“Jehovah created God” **-- I don’t even know if the JWs teach this, but it certainly is not orthodox Christianity. Ask any Lutheran, Presbyterian, Baptist, Episcopalian or Congregationalist.

I know ,I was just proving again the Islam and jews don’t have the same bible Jesus and God as christians.
I ust wanted to show that satan and God of the bible is not the same god, and GOD.

 

[evangelist]

Amen!
I see the fruits and they do NOT look sweet.
WP

I second this!

Amen1:thumbsup:

 

[Montalban]

Isn’t satan the god of the earth or planet??

So there is a satan god.

Also there is God almighty

one satan god.

Yes ! one almighty God!

We Christians and the bible God , the Cod of abraham is the God almighty , the Son of God which is God manifested into flesh to die for us, which Jews and muslims rejects.

There is only one God. Satan as ‘god’ is not literal, it’s describing his ‘role’ on earth.

 

[Valke2]

I haven’t. If you’re aware of this evidence, even if you’re not saying you support it, why not reference it?

Because I don’t feel like hunting through the threads. But someone gave a rather long explanation of the verse. It is always easy to attack another faith by selecting verse. But it is rarely productive.

 

[Montalban]

Because I don’t feel like hunting through the threads. But someone gave a rather long explanation of the verse. It is always easy to attack another faith by selecting verse. But it is rarely productive.

You sure want to stick with non-evidence, don’t you. I guess we’ll just rely on the ‘there’s just got to be an answer out there’ type of post then

 

[Valke2]

You sure want to stick with non-evidence, don’t you. I guess we’ll just rely on the ‘there’s just got to be an answer out there’ type of post then

Go find a muslim poster. I’m sure he’ll give you a quick answer.

 

[meedo]

Christian worship Jesus,

Muslims and Jews worship the God of Moses and Abraham. We both believe that Jesus is a human . Christians belive that Jesus is devine.

I dont know why this thread is still going when the answer is that obvious.

salam

 

[Angelos]

I think you misunderstood what I was saying. Taking the resurrection for fact (for the purposes of my post), the fact that the death was public and the resurrection was private can be viewed as a kind of deception on the people.

Shalom Valke

Sorry but your comparison between Christianity and Islam in terms of a deceptive God still looks like a false analogy to me. According to the Quran, Jesus’ crucifixion was a public illusion, and the idea that Jesus’ death was not real was revealed to the apostles and believers in private. In Christian belief, however, Jesus’ crucifixion and death were a public reality and His resurrection was by no means the private denial of the reality of His passion. In the Gospels, Jesus did not rise on the third day and appear to His chosen ones in order to replace a public lie with the secret truth since His resurrection was as real as His death on the cross. Likewise, Christianity did not concoct Jesus’ resurrection so that Jews could be deceived and degraded! Unlike in Islam, Jesus’ passion and resurrection were the foundation of Christian theology that was inextricably bound to the fundamental tenet of the redemption of humanity rather than the deception of the Jews by an illusion.

I hope to write soon a long article criticizing the Islamic approach to Jesus’ passion and give a comprehensive answer to my question “How Gnosticism made its way into the Islamic scripture and faith” . Wait for my analysis

Peace to you and God’s Israel.

 

[Angelos]

Christian worship Jesus,

Muslims and Jews worship the God of Moses and Abraham. We both believe that Jesus is a human . Christians belive that Jesus is devine.

I dont know why this thread is still going when the answer is that obvious.

salam

Hi Meedo,

Good to see you.

Let me correct a mistake in your post: Christians also believe that Jesus is a perfect human. You seem to deliberately ignore this fact in order to present Christianity as a religion not different than any form of paganism. This is not new to us because your beloved messenger did the same thing hundreds of years ago Try to find better arguments to libel Christianity.

My question: If Jews and Muslims believe in the same Allah (actually Jews do not call Him with that Arabic name, the name of an Arabic false god!), why does your holy Quran ask Muslims to hate Jews more than Christians? Besides, you are denying the Islamic faith that Jesus is a messenger while highlighting the similarity between Judaism and Islam on the basis of Jesus’ humanity.

I hope one day you fill find out the truth and run to your gracious Lord. You still have time…

Salaam

 

[evangelist]

There is only one God. Satan as ‘god’ is not literal, it’s describing his ‘role’ on earth.

The ruling part is the god like decription of who satan is over this earth.

Do you know who satan is first of all???

 

[Valke2]

Shalom Valke

Sorry but your comparison between Christianity and Islam in terms of a deceptive God still looks like a false analogy to me. According to the Quran, Jesus’ crucifixion was a public illusion, and the idea that Jesus’ death was not real was revealed to the apostles and believers in private. In Christian belief, however, Jesus’ crucifixion and death were a public reality and His resurrection was by no means the private denial of the reality of His passion. In the Gospels, Jesus did not rise on the third day and appear to His chosen ones in order to replace a public lie with the secret truth since His resurrection was as real as His death on the cross. Likewise, Christianity did not concoct Jesus’ resurrection so that Jews could be deceived and degraded! Unlike in Islam, Jesus’ passion and resurrection were the foundation of Christian theology that was inextricably bound to the fundamental tenet of the redemption of humanity rather than the deception of the Jews by an illusion.

I hope to write soon a long article criticizing the Islamic approach to Jesus’ passion and give a comprehensive answer to my question “How Gnosticism made its way into the Islamic scripture and faith” . Wait for my analysis

Peace to you and God’s Israel.

I look forward to reading it.

 

[evangelist]

Christian worship Jesus,

Muslims and Jews worship the God of Moses and Abraham. We both believe that Jesus is a human . Christians belive that Jesus is devine.

I dont know why this thread is still going when the answer is that obvious.

salam

because people still thgink islam and muslim have the same God as Jews and Christians and that is not true , just like satan didn’t create this world.

 

[inJESUS]

I hope to write soon a long article criticizing the Islamic approach to Jesus’ passion and give a comprehensive answer to my question “How Gnosticism made its way into the Islamic scripture and faith” . Wait for my analysis

Peace to you and God’s Israel.

indeed, gnosticism…the crucifixion interpretation in Quran is gnostic…i’ll look for your analysis to see if it matches mine