If voting republican doesn't change Abortion laws, then why vote Republican?

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phil19034 said:
How would you have expected President Bush and the Congress to ban abortion?

Overturning the Supreme Court is VERY difficult to do.

economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2015/07/rights-and-legislation

Essentially, there are really only two ways to do it.
  1. A Constitutional Amendment (which Congress did not have the numbers to propose, nor pass back then)
  2. or the Court Overturns itself based on a new case based on similar law (which has only happened 10 times in US history)
money.howstuffworks.com/10-overturned-supreme-court-cases.htm
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Then we agree it’s a practical impossibility. As such, it is a logical waste of your vote to cast it on that basis alone.

When I’m picking governmental leaders, I vote largely on the basis of their economic philosophy, how they think the US should be geopolitically situated, their view of optimal tax structure and their view of the limits of individual freedom.

You know, things that can actually affect change from administration to administration.

How they feel about abortion has very little bearing because, frankly, it’s not going to change. Roe v. Wade was 45 years ago and we’ve had several republican administrations in the interim.
 
Vonsalza said:
Then we agree it’s a practical impossibility. As such, it is a logical waste of your vote to cast it on that basis alone.

When I’m picking governmental leaders, I vote largely on the basis of their economic philosophy, how they think the US should be geopolitically situated, their view of optimal tax structure and their view of the limits of individual freedom.

You know, things that can actually affect change from administration to administration.

How they feel about abortion has very little bearing because, frankly, it’s not going to change. Roe v. Wade was 45 years ago and we’ve had several republican administrations in the interim.
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👍
 
Vonsalza said:
Then we agree it’s a practical impossibility. As such, it is a logical waste of your vote to cast it on that basis alone.

When I’m picking governmental leaders, I vote largely on the basis of their economic philosophy, how they think the US should be geopolitically situated, their view of optimal tax structure and their view of the limits of individual freedom.

You know, things that can actually affect change from administration to administration.

How they feel about abortion has very little bearing because, frankly, it’s not going to change.
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You respond that you agree it is practically impossible, the poster you responded to said no such thing. I am amazed at how Catholics married to their party try to twist things to ease their conscience.
 
dmelosi said:
You respond that you agree it is practically impossible, the poster you responded to said no such thing. I am amazed at how Catholics married to their party try to twist things to ease their conscience.
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I’m amazed that you feel that way. The poster identified constitutional amendments and supreme court reversals as potential solutions. These are practical impossibilities. They are rare exceptions rather than everyday options.

If you want to burn your vote over one issue, I think you should have the freedom to do so. But for those of us smart enough to realize it’s not changing and subsequently “move-on”, it’s not “twisting to ease my conscience”. It’s pragmatic governance.

I don’t mean to alarm you, but there are other issues to consider in human governance besides abortion.
 
Vonsalza said:
I’m amazed that you feel that way. The poster identified constitutional amendments and supreme court reversals as potential solutions. These are practical impossibilities. They are rare exceptions rather than everyday options.

If you want to burn your vote over one issue, I think you should have the freedom to do so. But for those of us smart enough to realize it’s not changing and subsequently “move-on”, it’s not “twisting to ease my conscience”. It’s pragmatic governance.

I don’t mean to alarm you, but there are other issues to consider in human governance besides abortion.
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You are now trying to tell me that I vote over 1 issue? You really need to stop twisting things.

I do mean to alarm you, you are twisting things to ease your own conscience to further the intentional killing of the most innocent human beings.
 
SuperLuigi said:
So…I guess you’ve got your excuse to keep voting pro-choice! 👍
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In the same vein, you’ve swallowed hook-line-and-sinker the republican bait that they might actually outlaw abortion someday.

45 years and Reagan and Bush 1 & 2 later… no change.
 
dmelosi said:
You are now trying to tell me that I vote over 1 issue? You really need to stop twisting things.

I do mean to alarm you, you are twisting things to ease your own conscience to further the intentional killing of the most innocent human beings.
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throws hands up in the air
 
Vonsalza said:
Then we agree it’s a practical impossibility. As such, it is a logical waste of your vote to cast it on that basis alone.

When I’m picking governmental leaders, I vote largely on the basis of their economic philosophy, how they think the US should be geopolitically situated, their view of optimal tax structure and their view of the limits of individual freedom.

You know, things that can actually affect change from administration to administration.

How they feel about abortion has very little bearing because, frankly, it’s not going to change. Roe v. Wade was 45 years ago and we’ve had several republican administrations in the interim.
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This is 100% wrong. Because, as I have stated before and as others, Conservatives put in place laws to LIMIT abortion. Liberals & progressives put in laws to EXPAND abortion.

Conservatives pass laws to fund and support pregnancy crisis centers, while liberals & progressives typically defund pregnancy crisis center or pass laws to force pregnancy crisis centers to offer/promote abortions.

Finally, and most importantly, the Democrats push abortion on Africa. The Obama White State Department (under Hillary Clinton) added stipulations to African aid, taking money away from African nations that were prolife. The Democrats would tell African leaders that you will not be eligible for full aid unless you allow abortion.

These kind of policies are horrid. Plus, under the Democrats, the US uses tax payer dollars for and promotes abortion in 3rd world nations. Under the Republicans, that kind of behavor is illegal.
 
Vonsalza said:
throws hands up in the air
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Rather than throw your hands up in the air, open your eyes to what you are doing by your unabashed apologists of the party of death. At the very least condemn abortion for what it is, the intentional killing of the most innocent human beings.
 
phil19034 said:
This is 100% wrong. Because, as I have stated before and as others, Conservatives put in place laws to LIMIT abortion.
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Literally the only limit women in my state experience is that they can’t get it done in 3rd trimester, so they just travel abroad and do it elsewhere.

I don’t like abortion. But I’m not going to spend my time and effort to die on a hill that I cannot capture. If you’re happy to do so, then good for you.
 
phil19034 said:
And how do you feel about the National Chairman of your party saying that Pro Life Democrats are not welcome in the party?
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I probably feel about him in a similar way most repubs currently feel about Trump 🤷
 
I have come to believe that those Catholics that are apologists for their party of death simply don’t care that abortion is the intentional killing of the most innocent of human beings.

They will go to any length to twist facts and misguide others, simply to ease their own conscience.
 
dmelosi said:
I have come to believe that those Catholics that are apologists for their party of death simply don’t care that abortion is the intentional killing of the most innocent of human beings.

They will go to any length to twist facts and misguide others, simply to ease their own conscience.
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That’s how you rationalize it to yourself and I empathize with that deeply. We like to put over-simplistic lids on top of yucky, complex and problematic cauldrons. I do the same thing.

“Catholic apologists for the party of death” are often Catholics who simply recognize that the “ball” isn’t going to move on that issue. As such, they remove it from their political analysis and give the weight to other issues. Like taxes, economic policy, international relations and so on.
 
Vonsalza said:
Literally the only limit women in my state experience is that they can’t get it done in 3rd trimester, so they just travel abroad and do it elsewhere.

I don’t like abortion. But I’m not going to spend my time and effort to die on a hill that I cannot capture. If you’re happy to do so, then good for you.
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Do you recognize the fact that giving up and “moving on” from the issue means that things will certainly not change?

This is exactly what the pro-choice crowd has been trying to tell us for 45 years and it’s simply not true. If it were settled to the point where we needn’t concern ourselves over it, then there would be no pro-life movement.

What if we adopted such a view with regards to slavery? Or civil rights and racial discrimination?

Evil flourishes when good people do nothing. But good can happen when people courageously stand up for what is right.
 
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