If we are bound to vote for the lesser evil. Shouldn't we all vote for the American Solidarity Party?

[WingedHussar]

therwise, you’re saying all Lebanese, Syrian, and Latin American peoples are incapable of positively contributing to society, which is flat-out racism.

So why are their own countries so bad that they have to flee from them?

 

[JSRG]

I’ve never even heard of this party.

They are relatively new. But, hey… you’ve heard of them now!

 

[upant]

Which they are…

economics is the motivator in a lot of the illegal entry going on

because their countries are not safe to return to.

but many leave the wives and kids there and send money back to them?

how unsafe can it be to leave the wife and kids behind?

 

[Pattylt]

I’m not sure about other states but in Colorado, we had about 7-8 names for president on our ballots. Most of them, I had never heard of! The Solidarity party was one that I had heard of.

I’m just glad I’ve voted and can sit back with my popcorn now.

 

[JSRG]

I’m not sure about other states but in Colorado, we had about 7-8 names for president on our ballots. Most of them, I had never heard of! The Solidarity party was one that I had heard of.

I’m just glad I’ve voted and can sit back with my popcorn now.

7-8 is an understatement. By my count, Colorado has 21 this year!

In case anyone is wondering why there’s so many, it’s because Colorado has some the easiest ballot access laws in the country (perhaps even the easiest!). States generally require some number of signatures to be on the presidential ballot, but if you’re willing to pay a $1,000 fee in Colorado, you can forego their signature requirement (5,000 signatures) entirely. Because anyone with a thousand dollars to burn can get on it, even if they have absolutely no supporters, you end up with a lot of candidates.

 

[Pattylt]

Was there really that many? I think I must have just stopped looking at a certain point!

I do agree that any Joe Shmoe can get on there!

 

[CaptainPrudeman]

So why are their own countries so bad that they have to flee from them?

Mostly foreign influence or despotic leaders who claimed power after collapsing regimes from the Cold War. We actually have an active Lebanese poster on the forums. Why don’t you ask him to his face why his home country sucks right now?

economics is the motivator in a lot of the illegal entry going on

And? I don’t see an issue with people seeking a better economic situation in another country.

but many leave the wives and kids there and send money back to them?

Yeah, can I get some stats on that please? Also, if they’re paying taxes, why does that matter?

 

[HomeschoolDad]

Not voting isn’t a valid Catholic option. If you can’t vote for anyone, then you should write in a name (even if it’s yourself).

I wrote in the name of a local pro-life advocate in a state legislature race where the Democrat was running unopposed. The Democrat did not state his position on abortion when I looked at his web site, and it wouldn’t matter anyway, since he is going to win “no matter what” (unless there were an organized write-in campaign).

 

[HomeschoolDad]

To me, prison reform is not about letting people opt out of prison, but rather, making sure that prison is a place that leads to a re-formation of character by preparing the inmate to live crime-free in the outside world, which includes making sure that the inmate receives a good education and earns the appropriate diplomas/degrees, and also by making sure that the inmate has job training and a path to actually getting a job that pays a living wage and offers opportunities for advancement. This would probably require that companies and businesses work with the prison and are ready and willing to hire released convicts that have received the education and training.

Along with the practical training in crime-free life skills, inmates should also receive training and education in living a moral, loving, giving life. Those who have spent their lives involved in crime of some sort need to re-learn how to live life WITHOUT resorting to crime and without associating with criminals. If need be, the inmates should be moved to a totally different part of the country where they will not be easily able to make contacts with criminals.

Paying them a fair market wage for the work they do in prison, and allowing them to bank this money and have it waiting for them when they come out, would also be a good idea, not to mention the marketable skill they would have as well.

 

[upant]

And? I don’t see an issue with people seeking a better economic situation in another country.

doesn’t fit the definition of a refugee and cheats those coming in legally, those coming in illegally for economics doesn’t square with the catechism. they are supposed to follow the rules.

Yeah, can I get some stats on that please? Also, if they’re paying taxes, why does that matter?

look them up, start with how much money is being sent back to Mexico. they aren’t sending it to the government. nothing says they are paying taxes, whose tax ID are they using if they are here illegally?

 

[upant]

Paying them a fair market wage for the work they do in prison, and allowing them to bank this money and have it waiting for them when they come out, would also be a good idea, not to mention the marketable skill they would have as well.

like in days of old, offer them an enlistment in the army. they’ll get 3 hots, a cot, a skill, and money to put away

 

[Pattylt]

like in days of old, offer them an enlistment in the army. they’ll get 3 hots, a cot, a skill, and money to put away

I don’t think the military wants them anymore. Probably more trouble than it’s worth. However, being as our military is so technological these days, I’d love to see programs that train prisoners to use or repair the technology used by the military and an option to hire those that excel at it!

 

[upant]

I don’t think the military wants them anymore.

they could create military programs that would benefit these individuals and society. as someone above said, we already pay for their keep.

it was a scam in the years of “nam” many people of color were picked up on bogus charges and this option was forced on them. even saying this, a friend it happened to said it probably saved his life. if it could be run honestly it would help people.

 

[Pattylt]

I knew a couple of guys busted for having one joint in their pockets that led to them doing tours in Nam…yeah, it sure did happen!

I like that idea, btw. We really need to do better with our prisoners…the return rate is unacceptably high. Teaching them skills that are needed and useful, help them secure employment and have developmental programs that teach them how to be a productive member of society all will be of help. Just having chain gangs that dig ditches doesn’t help anyone. These people often have learning disabilities but are very trainable. Give them opportunities to get their GED and a skill!

 

[blackforest]

I’m just pointing out the results, and that said results remain the same even if you say “it’s their fault, not mine”. In elections what most people care about are results.

We can talk about results, sure, but you did place the blame on third party voters, saying that they carry the “burden.” I don’t think that’s the right place to put the blame.

To use the Green Party as an example (since it was the third party that got the most votes in the last election), if it gets a significant amount of votes but doesn’t win then a Republican victory will be guaranteed since those Green votes didn’t go to the Democratic party whom they were ideologically closer to.

That certainly used to be the thinking, yes. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/241583809_Did_Ralph_Nader_Spoil_Al_Gore’s_Presidential_Bid_A_Ballot-Level_Study_of_Green_and_Reform_Party_Voters_in_the_2000_Presidential_Election

That doesn’t mean you can’t vote for one, but one should at least making sure they are considering all possible results.

Oh, I’ve considered it. I’ve concluded that the only wasted vote is a vote against conscience.

 

[WingedHussar]

like in days of old, offer them an enlistment in the army. they’ll get 3 hots, a cot, a skill, and money to put away

Teaching a bunch of thugs lethal skills and tactics? Thanks but no thanks. Perhaps you could put them in penal battalions that only search for IED’s but I am pretty sure that would be considered immoral.

 

[CaptainPrudeman]

doesn’t fit the definition of a refugee and cheats those coming in legally, those coming in illegally for economics doesn’t square with the catechism. they are supposed to follow the rules.

Pretty sure economic refugees are a thing.

look them up, start with how much money is being sent back to Mexico.

No. You make a claim, you need to support it. Not my job to find your sources for you.

nothing says they are paying taxes,

Except the Social Security Administration, which credits undocumented immigrants with keeping it afloat a few years ago, and the IRS, which says about 6mil undocumented immigrants pay taxes.

whose tax ID are they using if they are here illegally?

Their own…you do realize that you don’t need a SSN to pay taxes, right? They get Individual Taxpayer Identification Numbers (ITINs) from the IRS to pay taxes.

They’re not moochers.

Teaching a bunch of thugs lethal skills and tactics?

Yeah, everyone that goes to prison is violent and would use those skills for evil

 

[otjm]

f that is the case, wouldn’t we all be called to vote for the American Solidarity Party because they have NO objectional platforms and are perfectly aligned with Catholic teaching?

Isn’t voting for someone who is pro-life but passive about climate change over someone who is both pro-life and pro-environmentalist simply because they have a better chance of winning morally wrong?

One might think that reality should have some bearing on the choices one makes when voting.

We have had more than a few elections (local, state and federal) which have been dicided by extremely thin margins.

Currently, and for decades upon decades, the US has been a two party country, with minority parties popping up and disappearing. The net result is that a third party vote can be one that, should some of those doing so had voted for one or the other of the two main parties, could have easily swung the vote, either for a clearer win, or a loss.

There is insufficent political power and will behind the minor parties to have any meaningful impact on elections generally; in conversations with some who have voted 3rd party, they have said that they would not have voted at all, and others ay they might have voted along with the two major parties.

The American Soplidarity Party is a voice crying in the wilderness, but unlike John the Baptist, pretty much no one is paying a whit of attention. And if by voting 3rd party the “lesser of two evils” is not elected, then I would suggest that the ASP possibly had a hand in that decision.

Which is not to sy that I think we will always be a 2 party system. There are enough moderate Democrats currently, that if the part continues on with its swing to the ultra left, may finally decide to leave - the question being where would they go. Possibly Independent (which I am not at all sure is actually considered a party), or possibly start a third party trying to recruit from moderate Republicans and Independent to form a centrist party. Considering the state of the Democratic party currently, that is not an impossibility.

The comment “wise as a serpent, harmless as a dove” is applicable, particularly if one looks at the real world impact of a 3rd party vote.

 

[upant]

Pretty sure economic refugees are a thing.

maybe in some liberal dictionary

uh

No. You make a claim, you need to support it. Not my job to find your sources for you.

I don’t need the answer, I have it. you can believe it or not.

again they ain’t sending the money back to the people who supposedly were persecuting them,

Their own…you do realize that you don’t need a SSN to pay taxes, right? They get Individual Taxpayer Identification Numbers (ITINs) from the IRS to pay taxes.

how many illegals do this?

They’re not moochers.

how do you know what an undocumented person is? do you really think they all pay their way?

 

[CaptainPrudeman]

I don’t need the answer, I have it. you can believe it or not.

Well I don’t trust you. I don’t trust anyone on the internet. You don’t have sources, I think you’re lying. Always.

how many illegals do this?

Undocumented immigrants, and about 6mil if the IRS is to be believed.

how do you know what an undocumented person is? do you really think they all pay their way?

They’re generally hardworking people who want to make a living and be good members of American society.