If we forgive those who offend us but then avoid their company have we truly forgiven them?

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Have not people forgiven those who have murdered their loved ones even though the murderers are not sorry and have not asked for forgiveness?
 
Sarcelle said:
For the sake the healing that is true.

However we are not required to subject ourselves to abuse just to show the transgressors that we have forgiven them.
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Of course not.

I’ve been there. Some situations you just need to get away from.
 
Sarcelle said:
However we are not required to subject ourselves to abuse just to show the transgressors that we have forgiven them.
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I am not sure how you could then apply Mathew 18…

21 Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, “Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother or sister who sins against me? Up to seven times?”
22 Jesus answered, “I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.
 
Visiter58 said:
Have not people forgiven those who have murdered their loved ones even though the murderers are not sorry and have not asked for forgiveness?
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Popo John Paul 11 comes to mind. On May 17, 1981, just four days after the assassination attempt, the pope publicly forgave Agca – stating he’d forgiven him while in the ambulance during transport to the Gemelli hospital – and in 1983 visited Agca as he served a 19-year prison sentence. During that visit John Paul held Agca’s hand and forgave his would-be assassin face-to-face.
 
There is an old Jewish saying. " Forgive, but tie up your camel."
I like that.
 
Forgive yes. Continue to subject yourself to abuse no. Right?
 
How does that verse apply to demanding someone be subject to abuse? Forgiving someone does not mean you endorse their actions. You do know this right?

Forgive and then move on. No need to stay in an abusive situation.

Is there anything in Catholic doctrine that says that a victim be revictimized as a show of forgiveness? I doubt it.
 
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If you forgive someone once, and then move away, you are not in a position to forgive a second or third time.

In order to be able to forgive them a 8th and 9th time, you still have to be in some kind of relationship with them. This is my interpretation of Mathew 18 - 21.
 
Wait, what?

Seriously?

Are you using this verse to justify repeated abuse?

An abuse victim will have to make themselves available to abuse in order to fulfill the the requirement of this verse?

The Church does not require for example a rape victim to keep up a relationship with her rapist. However because of this verse, you say they should? The rapist should go on raping her so she could forgive seventy times seven?

Absurd.
 
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If someone breaks into my house and steals from me and I forgive them and they do it again and I forgive them and I lock my doors, and they do it again and they go to prison for a time and I do it again and I buy a security system but forgive them I am not fostering a relationship. Not to mention the idea of no contact restraining orders to protect potential victims.
 
How would you interpret Mathew 18?
Eric_Hyom said:
21 Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, “Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother or sister who sins against me? Up to seven times?”
22 Jesus answered, “I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.
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It helps if you try to interpret this verse within context instead of in isolation. Jesus also says in other verses to sin no more.
Part of forgiveness is the acknowledgment that the transgressors needs rehabilitation and help in turning away from their sin.

Enabling them in their sin is not forgiveness. Part of forgiveness is helping them turn them away from their sin. If that involves time spent in prison, so be it.

Forgiveness does not mean endorsement.
 
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Yeah…I’m not seeing that either. Forgiving in our heart should not mean continuing to place ourself in a position to be abused - verbally or physically.
 
Sarcelle said:
It helps if you do not try to interpret this verse within context instead of in isolation. Jesus also says in other verses to sin no more.
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You can sin no more; and that would be right. But not every one is obedient to God. Jesus could only say forgive 77 times, if someone needed forgiving 77 times. If you walked away after the first or second transgression, why would you need to forgive up to 77 times.

Peter just asks, should I forgive my brother or sister who sins against me up to seven times. He is not specific, he does not say if my brother is angry towards me 7 times, or if my brother stabs me with his sword 7 times; should I forgive him.

I think the solutions Jesus is searching for; are the solutions that lead us to eternal life, they are not so much about getting us through our day to day life on earth. Just my 2c.
 
This is Matthew’s version, but Luke 17:3 says it differently.

“If your brother or sister sins against you, rebuke them; and if they repent, forgive them.

I do not see that we must forgive if they are not sorry, other than to be willing to forgive in the event that they repent. Forgiveness is advantageous to release our spirits in the peace of Christ so we do not fester in anger.
 
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Why do we need to forgive 77 times?

We can walk away after forgiving. The Church does not say we have to be a victim 77 times.
I was once a victim of identity theft. Do I need to furnish the thief with my personal information 77 times in order to forgive him 77 times? No. To suggest otherwise is absurd.

You are taking this text too literally.
 
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I am not understanding so would you say plainly? Are you saying that we should forgive AND continue to put ourselves in the presence of someone who is abusive.
 
It is true and quite sad. Some of us, like faithful dogs, have a hard time reconciling the very wise teaching of forgiving but keeping at a distance. The feedback here is helpful. Thanks!
 
I think you are on to something here. I am not advocating maintaining an abusive relationship, but I do think many of the responses on this forum miss the boat a bit as to what constitutes forgiveness. The idea that forgiveness just means I have moved on, or that forgiveness is about me not who I am forgiving just doesn’t seem quite right to me. I have often struggled with understanding this issue. With loved ones and friends it is quite easy, you forgive and do move on, which means that you continue your relationship with them. OTOH, what about others? I have a close family member, who suffers from mental health problems. I do not believe he has ever abused me in anyway. So its not an abusive relationship. On the other hand, I know that he will continue to say things to me, about me, about others that are extremely unjust. He cannot be reasoned with. Just difficult to deal with in everyway imaginable. How do I forgive him? Everytime I feel I have a need to, it is difficult. I do think forgiving has to be some sort of restablishment of relation with him, its not just me “moving on”, that’s easy to do. Just thinking out loud.
 
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