If you are a Christian, what is the real reason for you not being a Catholic? - 2

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I’m a Christian first, a Catholic second, just as you ought to be. No, the Pope is not the authority to all Christians. You seem to have almost a disdain for anybody who is not Catholic. IMO, you need to get over that.
Sunday is approaching and I do not plan to continue this debate any longer. How did I end up at a Roman Catholic site you ask. I was just surfing the web, actually I was searching for news pertaining to the Orthodox, Roman Catholic, and Anglican Communions accepting each other. (Which they have been working on for quite some time. The major hang up being Papal authority, sorry had to throw that in there:) ) Google returned this very thread back as a link. Had I not clicked on it, I would have saved about 2 hours of my life. Actually I enjoyed this debate, no offense, but I feal stronger about my faith now than I did before I clicked the link. I hope the rest of you have experienced the same.

My hope is that all christians can get a long someday and accept each others differences for what they are. After all we are all different in this world aren’t we?

MeMaw I thank you again for all of your feed back. I won’t you to know, that I having nothing against Roman Catholics. For that matter, I actually have nothing against any Christian denomination. I also apologize for upsetting you. I could tell you where upset by how you where typing. 😉

Have you ever wondered if God made all of these denominations of Christianity to keep us sincere about our faith. I compare it to a game of baseball where everyone is on the same team. Who would care about a game like that? How boring would it be if we where all alike. Look at all the physical differences that God has made in people. Skin, eyes, hair, height, weight, and more. Look at how mankind has managed to treat the physical differences. Ex. Slavery, Arian, etc. Ever heard anyone claim that the U.S. is the anti-christ? My point is that we are not all alike, but like C.S. Lewis stated in Mere Christianity, we all have a sense of what is right and what is wrong from birth. This is the proof that God created each of us.

Have a great Sunday!
 
i looove being Catholic. being Catholic gives me a vast treasure of spiritual gifts that I enjoy. i loove praying the rosary, the intercessions of the Blessed Virgin Mary and the saints. the Catholic Church is very much relevant. it is very much alive today. and we have 2000 years of history and knowledge that we could base our beliefs upon.
 
Had I not clicked on it, I would have saved about 2 hours of my life. but like C.S. Lewis stated in Mere Christianity, we all have a sense of what is right and what is wrong from birth. This is the proof that God created each of us.

Have a great Sunday!
If you had not been here for that time, you would have not met us, and would not have learned somethings & visa/versa. I think everyone should read some C.S. Lewis a great writer, a tough read , sometimes you have to reread, I hope we will see you on other forum topics. Try the BACK FENCE for the lighter stuff. Peace of Christ to you
 
He is THE authority to Catholics and Catholics only, not to non-Catholic Christians. To some non-Catholic Christians, he has been called the anti-Christ and a heretic. This isn’t true of course, but do you get my point? You can quote papal decrees all you want, but to a non-Catholic, you are wasting your breath.
Where did Jesus say to Peter, I give to thee the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven, whatever you bind on earth,will be bound in Heaven and whatever you loosed on earth will be loosed in Heaven, but only for Catholics. He didn’t say that. Jesus founded HIS church, the Catholic Church, for everyone, for ALL time and thats the way it is even if we don’t like it. If they don’t want to believe it or learn about it, well thats their free choice. But its here anyway for all. But if I were not a Catholic, I would be a little afraid to ridicule Christs Church, or spread lies about it, just in case what the Catholic Church says is true. I would do some sincere checking in the right way, by reading what the Catholic Church really teaches, not the lies, reading about those who have studied the Catholic Church and discovering the TRUTH, have become Catholic, such as Scott Haun, a one time VERY anti-Catholic minister. Fr. John Neuhaus, a top Lutheran theologian, that is now a Catholic Priest. There are many, many more. They don’t go around bashing their protestant roots. they are very thankful for what they were taught and how it has helped them to want to learn more and seek the full truth. Read some of their writings etc, and I have suggested so many times to watch “Journey Home” on Monday nights, at 7 PM CST. EWTN, Catholic Cable Network, Give yourself a chance to learn without all those prejudices and lies you’ve heard about the Catholic Church. Like Gamaliel said to the Sanhedrin when speaking about the Apostles,(for preaching their beliefs), “If this movement of theirs is of human origin, it will break up of its own accord, but if it does in fact come from God, you will not only be unable to destroy them, but you might find yourself fighting against God” No one, (not even corrupt Catholics from within) the lies of those who hate the Catholic Church, the doubters, the indifferent, Kings, Barbarians, Crusades, Inquisitions, No one and nothing has been able to destroy the Catholic Church, Doesn’t that tell you something!!! The Catholic Church has seen leaders come and go, nations rise and fall, kingdoms fizzel out, and it is still here standing straight and tall, teaching the same truths that it has ALWAYS taught. If only, if only you will give it a chance, you can see this too. I am not repeating this to be unkind, but it is the truth, protestant denominations took the bible and ran with it, claiming that it was all they needed, and look at them today, over 40,000 different denominations that do not even agree among themselves what to believe. Do you really think this is what Our Lord prayed for when HE prayed that all be one, I don’t think soo.
With this world turning its back on GOD and becoming more secular all the time I really believe it is time for us Christians to look to Christ for guidance and pray along with HIM that we all be one in HIM. God Bless.
 
Sunday is approaching and I do not plan to continue this debate any longer. How did I end up at a Roman Catholic site you ask. I was just surfing the web, actually I was searching for news pertaining to the Orthodox, Roman Catholic, and Anglican Communions accepting each other. (Which they have been working on for quite some time. The major hang up being Papal authority, sorry had to throw that in there:) ) Google returned this very thread back as a link. Had I not clicked on it, I would have saved about 2 hours of my life. Actually I enjoyed this debate, no offense, but I feal stronger about my faith now than I did before I clicked the link. I hope the rest of you have experienced the same.

My hope is that all christians can get a long someday and accept each others differences for what they are. After all we are all different in this world aren’t we?

MeMaw I thank you again for all of your feed back. I won’t you to know, that I having nothing against Roman Catholics. For that matter, I actually have nothing against any Christian denomination. I also apologize for upsetting you. I could tell you where upset by how you where typing. 😉

Have you ever wondered if God made all of these denominations of Christianity to keep us sincere about our faith. I compare it to a game of baseball where everyone is on the same team. Who would care about a game like that? How boring would it be if we where all alike. Look at all the physical differences that God has made in people. Skin, eyes, hair, height, weight, and more. Look at how mankind has managed to treat the physical differences. Ex. Slavery, Arian, etc. Ever heard anyone claim that the U.S. is the anti-christ? My point is that we are not all alike, but like C.S. Lewis stated in Mere Christianity, we all have a sense of what is right and what is wrong from birth. This is the proof that God created each of us.

Have a great Sunday!
Good post. I like the baseball team analogy.
 
Sunday is approaching and I do not plan to continue this debate any longer. How did I end up at a Roman Catholic site you ask. I was just surfing the web, actually I was searching for news pertaining to the Orthodox, Roman Catholic, and Anglican Communions accepting each other. (Which they have been working on for quite some time. The major hang up being Papal authority, sorry had to throw that in there:) ) Google returned this very thread back as a link. Had I not clicked on it, I would have saved about 2 hours of my life. Actually I enjoyed this debate, no offense, but I feal stronger about my faith now than I did before I clicked the link. I hope the rest of you have experienced the same.

My hope is that all christians can get a long someday and accept each others differences for what they are. After all we are all different in this world aren’t we?

MeMaw I thank you again for all of your feed back. I won’t you to know, that I having nothing against Roman Catholics. For that matter, I actually have nothing against any Christian denomination. I also apologize for upsetting you. I could tell you where upset by how you where typing. 😉

Have you ever wondered if God made all of these denominations of Christianity to keep us sincere about our faith. I compare it to a game of baseball where everyone is on the same team. Who would care about a game like that? How boring would it be if we where all alike. Look at all the physical differences that God has made in people. Skin, eyes, hair, height, weight, and more. Look at how mankind has managed to treat the physical differences. Ex. Slavery, Arian, etc. Ever heard anyone claim that the U.S. is the anti-christ? My point is that we are not all alike, but like C.S. Lewis stated in Mere Christianity, we all have a sense of what is right and what is wrong from birth. This is the proof that God created each of us.

Have a great Sunday!
I hope your not leaving us for good and will return. Keep reading more of C.S. Lewis and read G.K. Chesterton also.
I wasn’t upset, I’m to old to get upset, but I do accept your apology. Let us pray for each other that we may meet merrily in Heaven some day. (St. Thomas More)
 
Sunday is approaching and I do not plan to continue this debate any longer. How did I end up at a Roman Catholic site you ask. I was just surfing the web, actually I was searching for news pertaining to the Orthodox, Roman Catholic, and Anglican Communions accepting each other. (Which they have been working on for quite some time. The major hang up being Papal authority, sorry had to throw that in there:) ) Google returned this very thread back as a link. Had I not clicked on it, I would have saved about 2 hours of my life. Actually I enjoyed this debate, no offense, but I feal stronger about my faith now than I did before I clicked the link. I hope the rest of you have experienced the same.

My hope is that all christians can get a long someday and accept each others differences for what they are. After all we are all different in this world aren’t we?

MeMaw I thank you again for all of your feed back. I won’t you to know, that I having nothing against Roman Catholics. For that matter, I actually have nothing against any Christian denomination. I also apologize for upsetting you. I could tell you where upset by how you where typing. 😉

Have you ever wondered if God made all of these denominations of Christianity to keep us sincere about our faith. I compare it to a game of baseball where everyone is on the same team. Who would care about a game like that? How boring would it be if we where all alike. Look at all the physical differences that God has made in people. Skin, eyes, hair, height, weight, and more. Look at how mankind has managed to treat the physical differences. Ex. Slavery, Arian, etc. Ever heard anyone claim that the U.S. is the anti-christ? My point is that we are not all alike, but like C.S. Lewis stated in Mere Christianity, we all have a sense of what is right and what is wrong from birth. This is the proof that God created each of us.

Have a great Sunday!
Wow, so now people are born Arians. 🙂
 
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Jimmy_B:
I though everyone left with mniclin.
 
*Jimmy B. wrote / Post No. 1 -
Are you ready for some truth; most people don’t like the truth so much?
The reason I asked this question is that I find many Christians somewhat disingenuous when it comes to the real reason or reasons that they are not Catholic or are no longer Catholic.
I feel that many of the Catholic dissenters here who love to quote Bible verses and argue against Catholicism have a personal reason for not being Catholic and not a biblical reason. That is why you can never get anywhere with these people. I have also found this to be true in my real-life contacts and conversations with Catholic dissenters.
For example, a vast majority of people I have met over the years who say that they left the Catholic Church, for this reason or that, it turns out, had no religion in their lives what so ever, for many years.
They didn’t leave the Catholic Church on Sunday to become a “Born-Again” on Monday. They left the Catholic Church on Sunday and became a “Born-Again” twenty or thirty years later.
They left their Faith, turned their back on God and did as they pleased, without guilt, what a life.
They where having “fun” living a promiscuous lifestyle and guess what the guilt finally catches up with them (sin has a way of doing that, don’t you know). They were just full of sin and at the point in which they felt it was time to “go back to church” they discovered that the Roman Catholic Church (actually that God) had a problem with their previous years of bad behavior and now their existed a hurdle or two to overcome and confession can be pretty humbling.
One thing leads to another and before you know it, these same people are now “former Catholics” and bible scholars, not to mention an authority on the Catholic religion, almost over-night. “It’s a miracle!”
It’s not a miracle it is disingenuous and hypocritical. Moreover, arguing now against Catholicism is a way for them to have God on their terms instead of His terms and to make them feel better about themselves. There isn’t’ anything wrong with experiencing guilt. We all sin and we all feel guilt, it is the human condition, welcome to life.
Here is some more reality; Many of these “on-fire” Christians who are bound and determined to save all us Catholics, it turns out, if the truth be known, would probably be Catholic today if it wasn’t for the three or four marriages, which occurred in the interim period, during their “non practicing, Christians years”, before they were on fire…
I also know of many other personal rather than biblical reasons why many are not Catholic, however there are too many to list here. Do not get me wrong, I love all my Christian Brothers, but like an alcoholic, you have to admit you have a problem before you can seek a cure.
Why aren’t you Catholic? Tell the truth*.**
 
I agree with you 100% and I have already said just about the same thing as you have, (maybe in a little different way). All the Bible thumpin in the world won’t take away guilt. It takes a true change of heart and amendment of life and seeking the TRUTH about God. And the TRUTH lies within the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, Jesus Christ founded HIMSELF and is still with us today… That is the 2,000 year old Catholic Church and her true teachings, 7 Sacraments and the Authority of the Pope to guide us. Try it, you might like it. I believe you would learn to love it if you gave the Church a real chance.
 
I stumbled across this article on-line and thought I would share it. by Fr. A. James Bernstein
 
👍

Since it is a historical fact that the Catholic Church canonized and codified the Bible, all 21st century Christians should, for all practical purposes be Catholic, just as all Christians during this 4 century canonization process were Catholic.

For the earliest Christians, God spoke His word not only to but through His Body, the Church, and it was within His Body, the Church, that the word was confirmed and established. Without question the Scriptures were looked upon **by early Christians **as God’s active revelation of Himself to the world. At the same time, the Church was looked upon as the Household of God, “having been built on the foundation of the Apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, in whom the whole building, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord” (Ephesians 2:20-21).

There was no organic separation between Bible and Church as we find so often today. The Body without the word is without message, but the word without the Body is without foundation. As Paul says in I Timothy 3:15, “The church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.” The Church is the living body of the incarnate Lord. She is an integral part of the Gospel message and it is within the context of the Church that the New Testament was conceived and preserved.

If the Church is not just a tangent or a sidelight to the Scripture, but rather an active participant in its development and preservation, shouldn’t it be time for non-Catholics to reconcile their differences and abandon their prejudices, as I did as a former Lutheran. Rather than trying to judge the Church with a modern understanding of what the Bible is saying, Christians should come into union with the Church that produced the New Testament, and let her be a guide into a proper understanding of the bible.

To those who, like I once did, stand dogmatically on “Sola Scriptura,” in the process rejecting the Church of God which not only produced the New Testament, but also selected through the guidance of the Holy Spirit those books which compose the New Testament, I would say only this:

Study the history of the early Church and the development of the New Testament canon. Use source documents where possible. Examine for yourself what happened to God’s people after the 28th chapter of the book of Acts.

If you examine the data and look with objectivity at what occurred in those early days, I think you will discover what I discovered. The history of God’s Church didn’t stop with the first century or fall by the wayside (complete apostasy). If it had, we would not possess the New Testament books which are so dear to every Christian believer. The phenomena of separating Church and Bible which we see so prevalent in much of today’s Christian world is a modern phenomena. Early Christians made no such artificial distinctions.

Once you have examined this data, I would encourage you to find out more about the historic Catholic, Apostolic Church which collected, selected, compiled, edited, preserved, canonized and finally codified the the 46 books of the Old and the 27 books of the New Testament. Every Christian owes it to himself or herself to find out more about this Church and to understand its vital role in proclaiming God’s word to our own generation, as it did for 1500 years --before the man-made doctrine of Sola Scriptura, which states that scripture alone is the final, and infallible court of appeal as to the truthfulness of any doctrine which it (scripture) addresses. (The ultimate non-sequitur)

Mt 16:18 -
“I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; (not write scripture) and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.” *According to the protestant mindset, Hades did prevail. *

Mt 18:17 -
“If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; (not, read scripture) and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.” The apostolic church alone (according to the bible and history) is the final arbiter, and very fallible court of appeal via the Infallible Holy Spirit, as to the truthfulness of any doctrine which the church addresses.
 
I would say the Church is the very INFALLIBLE Court of Appeal, through Peter as protected by the Holy Spirit, God Himself.
And another point, Sacred Tradition is just as important to the Catholic Church as Sacred Scripture. They are on the same level of Infallibility. God knows what HE is doing, He doesn’t need us weak human beings to tell HIM how to do it. TRUST, TRUST, TRUST in GOD and obedience to HIS Church. Study the Early Church Fathers, get some CD’s of Scott Haun, read the 3 volume set of “Surprised by Truth,” by Patrick Madrid. Catholic Answers has wonderful materials to help you study.There are sooo many ways to learn. No one today can say they can’t find true information on the Catholic Church. Its there if your interested in seeking the TRUTH.
 
…The point I am trying to make is that the RC has a long history of not releasing all of the information…
Like the proof that Protestantism is in error…😃

I left the RC because I started asking why. I started to read the bible and referencing history.
Keep reading and searching and I’m sure you’ll be back.

Peace 🙂
 
I would say the Church is the very INFALLIBLE Court of Appeal, through Peter as protected by the Holy Spirit, God Himself.

**I agree with you, the Magestarium’s Court of Appeal regarding doctrinal definitions of faith and morals is infallible, thanks the the infallible Holy Spirit (trinity) guiding her! However, the Magestarium is comprised of very fallible people who all carry within, the indelible stain of original sin. Saint Peter was a sinner, just as Pope Benedict XVI is a sinner. The truly remarkable thing is the great degree of sanctity found in the papacy throughout history; the “bad popes” stand out precisely because they are so rare!!! **

**Jesus Christ instructed the Church to preach everything he taught (Matt. 28:19–20) and promised the protection of the Holy Spirit to “guide you into all the truth” (John 16:13). That mandate and that promise guarantee the Church will never fall away from his teachings (Matt. 16:18, 1 Tim. 3:15), even if individual Catholics might. These Petrine texts: John 21:15–17 ("Feed my sheep . . . "), Luke 22:32 (“I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail”), and Matthew 16:18 ("You are Peter . . . ") all support the doctrine of infallibility and this doctrine has its roots in the early church, and the development of the doctrine of infallibility has its clear beginnings in the early Church. For example, Cyprian of Carthage, writing about 256, put the question this way, “Would the heretics dare to come to the very seat of Peter whence apostolic faith is derived and whither no errors can come?” (Letters 59 [55], 14). In the fifth century, Augustine succinctly captured the ancient attitude when he remarked, “Rome has spoken; the case is concluded” (Sermons 131, 10)
**

As I am to understand, even the most staunch defenders of the Papacy and of the Roman Catholic Church understand that infallibility applies to teachings of the Pope only when he is speaking ex cathedra, that is, on behalf of the whole church and in ways that are consistent with its councils, and with the collective wisdom of its cardinals and bishops as the truth has been revealed to them over time, by the Holy Spirit; How this happens, I’ll never know.

**Further, infallibility applies only when the Pope is speaking about matters of faith or morals. For example, when the Vatican press office issues a statement of the Pope concerning a hotly contested, political issue, such statements are not regarded as being infallible, or even authoritative for all Christians.
**

**The Catholic Church holds that the teaching authority of the Pope is based solidly in Scripture, for example John 14:16-17.

“If you love me, obey my commandments. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate, who will never leave you. He is the Holy Spirit, who leads into all truth…"**

As a former lutheran I could clearly see that the infallible Holy Spirit was to guide the apostolic church in perpetuity, into all Truth; it just took me a little longer to realize that the C.C. WAS/IS the apostolic church. And what this infallibility does do, is prevent a pope from solemnly and formally teaching as “truth” something that is, in fact, error. The same cannot be said of the protestant churches.

And another point, Sacred Tradition is just as important to the Catholic Church as Sacred Scripture. They are on the same level of Infallibility.

I totally agree with you!!! Sacred Tradition + Sacred Scripture = the Deposit of Faith!

God knows what HE is doing, He doesn’t need us weak human beings to tell HIM how to do it. TRUST, TRUST, TRUST in GOD and obedience to HIS Church.

I totally agree! Are you sure you’ve got the right person. LOL

Study the Early Church Fathers, get some CD’s of Scott Haun,

**I have studied the e.c.f.'s and I am a big fan of Scott Hahn’s work; quite the remarkable conversion story!
**

read the 3 volume set of “Surprised by Truth,” by Patrick Madrid.

I will definitely look into that!

Catholic Answers has wonderful materials to help you study.There are sooo many ways to learn. No one today can say they can’t find true information on the Catholic Church. Its there if your interested in seeking the TRUTH.
Amen brother…👍
 
I would say the Church is the very INFALLIBLE Court of Appeal, through Peter as protected by the Holy Spirit, God Himself.
And another point, Sacred Tradition is just as important to the Catholic Church as Sacred Scripture. They are on the same level of Infallibility. God knows what HE is doing, He doesn’t need us weak human beings to tell HIM how to do it. TRUST, TRUST, TRUST in GOD and obedience to HIS Church. Study the Early Church Fathers, get some CD’s of Scott Haun, read the 3 volume set of “Surprised by Truth,” by Patrick Madrid. Catholic Answers has wonderful materials to help you study.There are sooo many ways to learn. No one today can say they can’t find true information on the Catholic Church. Its there if your interested in seeking the TRUTH.
 
The real reason why I am not a Catholic is because Catholicism is works/salvation religion and that is contrary to what the Bible teaches as how to be saved. John 3:15-18; 36; Jn 5:24; Jn 6:47; Eph 2:8-9; Romans 5:1; 11:6.and many many more.
 
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