If you are a Christian, what is the real reason for you not being a Catholic? - 3

[guanophore]

Yes Catholics are nice people!! However so are Methodist and Lutherans. I was a Catholic, Now Lutheran and I am the same person in Gods Eyes . I have the same home the same Job and Income same person. What? just because I attend church across the street I am some how Less Christian ? We are all Christians that is what is required of us. Some on this fourm and those on EWTN radio think otherwise. You do not have to be a Roman Catholic to be a Christian or to Gain Salvation and that is that.

It is possible that you have no idea what it means to be Catholic.

 

[CentralFLJames]

I’m sure Catholics are nice people but would never become one myself. Why? The services seem so lacking in beauty and mystery. There doesn’t seem to be a feeling of anything in common with the Early Church. Everything seems so frightening and stark. OTOH, the Orthodox Church seems to have a sense of greater authenticity and warmth. Don’t know if this makes sense.

Do you really think that the novus ordo (new mass order) is not a far cry from “the early church” practise of holding mass in the damp and musty catacombs under wax candles and oil lamps to escape persecution? I can’t remember that well to say for certain but I’d say things have improved significantly wouldn’t you?

Admittedly, there is certainly no beating the “mystery” of what the Irish priest was saying in rapid Latin. If the Irish brogue was present only the most initiated Catholic laity could follow the Latin that come out as a mysterious cacophony that sounded more like slurred Gaelic than it did ecclesial Latin. I always suspected they made it up on the fly. But at least it kept people on their toes trying to follow along and unable to sleep through services.

As for the implications that the homily is uninspiring I can recall what my old priest used to say - “what do you expect for a dollar?” At the very least the old Catholic tradition of dropping a buck in the collection basket seems to have been updated for inflation.

James

 

[Cinette]

I was going to quote that verse about the Mansions but decided not to as it would have made my post too long. I am glad I didn’t because you did and added your perspective.

I am in absolute agreement with you. You give food for thought.

I will be re-reading your posts as well as those of James this coming week.

See what the laity can do??!!

Hi LeeAnn

Dear LeeAnn

OK so I have come home and now I am taking a second look at your email because I sent you a very quick response before rushing off.

This subject of implicit faith is huge and has many facets – if I say **I **have “implicit faith” (which I do have – I trust Jesus and His teachings and I also place my trust in His Church which I believe has a mandate) this means that I believe in the teachings of the CC without hesitation. I do not understand all the Church teaches because the subject is HUGE and I am no theologian. But I have implicit faith in the Church. Sometimes I do not understand something and I question and seek answers.

To paraphrase St Augustine, “You must believe in order to understand, not understand to believe” I suppose that is why we need Faith because there is no way we can understand God and His Church. We have to have Faith. Speaking for myself, I accept the Apostolic Succession, the Pope and the 2000 years of witness which clearly demonstrates the power of the Holy Spirit working through Christ’s Church.:yup:

Now when speaking of “implicit faith” in regard to an unbeliever, this is something entirely different. When it was presented to me, as I said, I experienced great joy. I have known many atheists who were and are good men – courageous, compassionate, self-sacrificing, attentive to the needs of others……….AND who do not have Faith.(this is a gift from God) In the case of my Father in law the Church played a role - the Church in Portugal did not censure Fascism. Who would want anything to do with a Church that collaborated with the State? My Father in law’s aversion to the Church is therefore understandable. At that time I did not care as I had turned my back on the Church. My husband also harboured the same feelings. Today, my husband is Catholic and attends daily Mass. We often talk of his Father and he has said that he is sure that if he had had the same exposure as my husband he would surely have joined the Church. Since he did not have this opportunity and lead such an exceptionally good life, we are convinced that he had “implicit faith” and is therefore in heaven.

I acknowledge that over the centuries the Church had some major issues but to my way of thinking it is testimony to Jesus’ promise when he said he would never abandon us and that the Spirit would lead. The Church has survived many calamities and continues to do so. The Pope and the Magisterium keep us on the track and steer us in the right direction. If the Pope compromised then we would be in trouble. So my dear we can praise the Lord for our great Church.:extrahappy:

I see that James has posted something on the subject. I will have to read later. It is 10.15 and I have to prepare Sunday lunch. Speak to you later

 

[mark_edd]

FOR ME? it’s this…

1. The traditions seems old fashioned.
2. The priests are lousy.
3. There’s nothing new in the church, no improvement.
4. There’s no new style of melody compared to Protestant’s Sunday Services.
5. The practice of clinging to traditions seems like living in the past.

There’s no need for arguments regarding the faith. The grounds for our belief is already good.But.The quality of a church is best seen in times like this.

 

[Janet_S]

FOR ME? it’s this…

1. The traditions seems old fashioned.
2. The priests are lousy.
3. There’s nothing new in the church, no improvement.
4. There’s no new style of melody compared to Protestant’s Sunday Services.
5. The practice of clinging to traditions seems like living in the past.

There’s no need for arguments regarding the faith. The grounds for our belief is already good.But.The quality of a church is best seen in times like this.

I don’t understand your reasoning, but whatever floats your boat.

Do you worship God or do you worship innovation?

Why is something new always superior to something old? Everything new today will be old tomorrow. So what do we hold on to?

Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever-- Hebrews 13:8

Priests are lousy? Do you know every priest?

 

[mmlj4u]

I’m not Catholic, but my objections, ironically, are the complete reverse of mark edd’s. To my way of thinking, the RCC is simply too modern and westernized. I’ve attended mass at a fairly decent, average RC parish on occasion, and there was only one reference to Mary, the God-bearer, in the entire service. I thought I was in a Protestant church . They had a “praise and worship” band up front, and the hymns seemed quite modern and casual to me.

 

[Leeann]

Hi LeeAnn

Dear LeeAnn

OK so I have come home and now I am taking a second look at your email because I sent you a very quick response before rushing off.

This subject of implicit faith is huge and has many facets – if I say **I **

have “implicit faith” (which I do have – I trust Jesus and His teachings and I also place my trust in His Church which I believe has a mandate) this means that I believe in the teachings of the CC without hesitation. I do not understand all the Church teaches because the subject is HUGE and I am no theologian. But I have implicit faith in the Church. Sometimes I do not understand something and I question and seek answers.

To paraphrase St Augustine, “You must believe in order to understand, not understand to believe” I suppose that is why we need Faith because there is no way we can understand God and His Church. We have to have Faith. Speaking for myself, I accept the Apostolic Succession, the Pope and the 2000 years of witness which clearly demonstrates the power of the Holy Spirit working through Christ’s Church.:yup:

Now when speaking of “implicit faith” in regard to an unbeliever, this is something entirely different. When it was presented to me, as I said, I experienced great joy. I have known many atheists who were and are good men – courageous, compassionate, self-sacrificing, attentive to the needs of others……….AND who do not have Faith.(this is a gift from God) In the case of my Father in law the Church played a role - the Church in Portugal did not censure Fascism. Who would want anything to do with a Church that collaborated with the State? My Father in law’s aversion to the Church is therefore understandable. At that time I did not care as I had turned my back on the Church. My husband also harboured the same feelings. Today, my husband is Catholic and attends daily Mass. We often talk of his Father and he has said that he is sure that if he had had the same exposure as my husband he would surely have joined the Church. Since he did not have this opportunity and lead such an exceptionally good life, we are convinced that he had “implicit faith” and is therefore in heaven.

I acknowledge that over the centuries the Church had some major issues but to my way of thinking it is testimony to Jesus’ promise when he said he would never abandon us and that the Spirit would lead. The Church has survived many calamities and continues to do so. The Pope and the Magisterium keep us on the track and steer us in the right direction. If the Pope compromised then we would be in trouble. So my dear we can praise the Lord for our great Church.:extrahappy:

I see that James has posted something on the subject. I will have to read later. It is 10.15 and I have to prepare Sunday lunch. Speak to you later

Hi Cinette:

Thank you for such a clear and uncluttered explanation of what you believe in and why!
I admire your ability to be able to express yourself in such a straightforward manner, without the need to lace your responses, as so many of us do, with your own suppositions, in order to make your point.

Having said that, I cannot understand your reasoning as to having “implicit faith” in the church and it’s leaders, when it is evident from your own story, as presented in your father-in-law’s case, that the church’s mandate in Portugal did not censure fascism under the leadership of the magesterium and the pope of that time.

If the pope and the magesterium back then could not keep everyone “on track” and “steer them in the right direction” (those within the church’s membership at the time) and set an example for those who were considered non-believers - why have you such implicit faith in thinking that the popes and magesteriums now or in the future will do any better, or have done any better since then.

For me personally, it raises the question of what exactly is the mandate of the church, has it changed over the years, will it change again in the future, shouldn’t it be the exactly the same as it was when the apostles were sent out – in appearance as well as in spirit?

The emphasis that has been put on the claim of Apostolic succession by the church for all these years and the need to sustain this “claim” appears to me to be the main mandate that is embraced by the church and in the process, it has overshadowed and complicated the mandate that Jesus intended “His Church” to embrace…believing on Him, putting our faith in Him and following the teachings of his apostles, which included their admonishments directed at false doctrines and binding ceremonies that were already prevalent and turning some of the believers aside from “the truth” that they had preached.

If we should find ourselves in a situation where any “church’s teachings” are just so HUGE to understand….it might prove beneficial to ask ourselves “why” is that so?..and to ask ourselves…is Christ’s message really that complicated?

If it has become that complicated, I believe it is not of His doing, but that it is the result of those who have a mandate of their own and have made it appear complicated in order to sustain the authority over their members by implying they have better “knowledge” and “understanding” – watering down the right of every believers promise of the sufficiency of the leading of the Holy Spirit in their own lives to be able to reveal His truth and distinguish what is true.

(next posting has Paul’s warning…)

 

[Leeann]

I leave you with Paul’s warning with regards to false teachings combining a mixture of Judaism and some earlier form of Gnosticism:

Douay Rheims Online Version

Note: I left in the “red” commentary – It is interesting in itself the NEED to have a commentary in the attempt to “clarify” the teaching of the Catholic Church’s “tradition” here.

Thank you again for being so candid Cinette, I have really appreciated your insights here.

God Bless

6 As therefore you have received Jesus Christ the Lord, walk ye in him; 7 Rooted and built up in him, and confirmed in the faith, as also you have learned, abounding in him in thanksgiving. 8 Beware lest any man cheat you by philosophy, and vain deceit; according to the tradition of men, according to the elements of the world, and not according to Christ: **9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead corporeally; 10 And you are filled in him, who is the head of all principality and power: **
11 In whom also you are circumcised with circumcision not made by hand, in despoiling of the body of the flesh, but in the circumcision of Christ: 12 Buried with him in baptism, in whom also you are risen again by the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him up from the dead. 13 And you, when you were dead in your sins, and the uncircumcision of your flesh; he hath quickened together with him, forgiving you all offences: 14 Blotting out the handwriting of the decree that was against us, which was contrary to us. And he hath taken the same out of the way, fastening it to the cross: 15 And despoiling the principalities and powers, he hath exposed them confidently in open show, triumphing over them in himself.
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat or in drink, or in respect of a festival day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbaths, 17 Which are a shadow of things to come, but the body is of Christ. 18 Let no man seduce you, willing in humility, and religion of angels, walking in the things which he hath not seen, in vain puffed up by the sense of his flesh, 19 And not holding the head, from which the whole body, by joints and bands, being supplied with nourishment and compacted, groweth unto the increase of God. 20 If then you be dead with Christ from the elements of this world, why do you yet decree as though living in the world?

16 “In meat”… He means with regard to the Jewish observations of the distinction of clean and unclean meats; and of their festivals, new moons, and sabbaths, as being no longer obligatory.

18 “Willing”… That is, by a self willed, self invented, superstitious worship, falsely pretending humility, but really proceeding from pride. Such was the worship, that many of the philosophers (against whom St. Paul speaks, ver. 8) paid to angels or demons, by sacrificing to them, as carriers of intelligence betwixt God and men; pretending humility in so doing, as if God was too great to be addressed by men; and setting aside the mediatorship of Jesus Christ, who is the head both of angels and men. Such also was the worship paid by the ancient heretics, disciples of Simon and Menander, to the angels, whom they believed to be makers and lords of this lower world. This is certain, that they whom the apostle here condemns, did not hold the head, (ver. 19,) that is, Jesus Christ, and his mediatorship; and therefore what he writes here no way touches the Catholic doctrine and practice, of desiring our good angels to pray to God for us, through Jesus Christ. St. Jerome [Epist. ad Algas.] understands by the religion or service of angels, the Jewish teachers, who sought to subject the new Christians to the observance of the Mosaic law.

 

[celticcrusader]

I’m not Catholic, but my objections, ironically, are the complete reverse of mark edd’s. To my way of thinking, the RCC is simply too modern and westernized. I’ve attended mass at a fairly decent, average RC parish on occasion, and there was only one reference to Mary, the God-bearer, in the entire service. I thought I was in a Protestant church . They had a “praise and worship” band up front, and the hymns seemed quite modern and casual to me.

… Are you sure you were in a Latin Rite Catholic Church

 

[Cinette]

;4126345]

…Having said that, I cannot understand your reasoning as to having “implicit faith” in the church and it’s leaders, when it is evident from your own story, as presented in your father-in-law’s case, that the church’s mandate in Portugal did not censure fascism under the leadership of the magesterium and the pope of that time.

Read Matt.13:24-30 - parable of the weeds among the wheat. My husband lived with this for a greater part of his life but he was able to discern. The self sacrifice of priests and the noble and holy people in the Church outweighs the bad. You would be overwhelmed by the lives of the Saints. Light overcomes darkness

If the pope and the magesterium back then could not keep everyone “on track” and “steer them in the right direction” (those within the church’s membership at the time) and set an example for those who were considered non-believers - why have you such implicit faith in thinking that the popes and magesteriums now or in the future will do any better, or have done any better since then.The Pope is guided by the HS in matters regarding dogma. There have been bad popes in our history but in matters regarding the faith they did not err. You must also remember that at the time it was the Fascist State that was in charge. I have spoken to people who have told me of the many herioc clergy who fought underground. I am not totally “au fait” with the history of that time and therefore cannot say whether perhaps the Pope had quietly censured the State. There are others who may give a different account but that was mine.

… it raises the question of what exactly is the mandate of the church, has it changed over the years, will it change again in the future, shouldn’t it be the exactly the same as it was when the apostles were sent out – in appearance as well as in spirit?The core beliefs and mandate of the Church never changes. The Church has stood the test of time and despite all the persecution, abuse and difficulties the Church has overcome enormous obstacles and it is testimony to the power of the HS. Can you imagine that Jesus would not keep his promise? Would the HS abandon the Church?

The emphasis that has been put on the claim of Apostolic succession by the church for all these years and the need to sustain this “claim” appears to me to be the main mandate that is embraced by the church and in the process, it has overshadowed and complicated the mandate that Jesus intended “His Church” to embrace…believing on Him, putting our faith in Him and following the teachings of his apostles, which included their admonishments directed at false doctrines and binding ceremonies that were already prevalent and turning some of the believers aside from “the truth” that they had preached.I assume that you came on this forum to discuss, debate and learn what Catholics believe. In fairness, you should perhaps pause and reflect on the discussions you have had. You have anger and resentment against the Church and I cannot criticise you because I too went through a phase like that. I would recommend Karl Keatings book, Fundamentalism and Catholicism - there you will be introducted to the terrible hatred of fundamentalists against the Church and the books full of lies - weapons of mass distruction against the Church. Read also some books by Patrick Madrid - Pope Fiction - Where is that in the Bible and Tell me this - they are small books but contain very good explanations supported by scripture. These books may not convince you but they will answer your questions.

If we should find ourselves in a situation where any “church’s teachings” are just so HUGE to understand….it might prove beneficial to ask ourselves “why” is that so?..and to ask ourselves…is Christ’s message really that complicated?Of course the Catholic is HUGE and has a HUGE history. But then we must remember that Jesus told us to be childlike. I am no theologian. The Jesuits study for 10 years before they are ordained. Other orders do not spend so much time in study. I used to argue and question and then (I think I said this before - maybe on another thread) someone made me aware of a statement by St Augustine (I paraphrase) We need to believe in order to understand and not understand to believe. Faith implies trust in what we cannot understand. That is what Faith is all about. Can we possibly expect to understand all that Jesus has taught us? I choose to trust the Church Christ has founded and in its representatives. Can you imagine a universal Chruch without a leader? We would all be believing different things like the many Christian denominations. We need the guidance provided by the Pope and the magisterium. I can see that you do not accept this.

If it has become that complicated, I believe it is not of His doing,I do not have to study theology to have Faith. but that it is the result of those who have a mandate of their own and have made it appear complicated in order to sustain the authority over their members by implying they have better “knowledge” and “understanding” – watering down the right of every believers promise of the sufficiency of the leading of the Holy Spirit in their own lives to be able to reveal His truth and distinguish what is true.I do not believe that we all have our own truths - that is relativism and you should be cautious in this regard.



(next posting has Paul’s warning…)/QUOTE

 

[Leeann]

Faith implies trust in what we cannot understand. That is what Faith is all about.
Yes…Hebrews 11
Can we possibly expect to understand all that Jesus has taught us? I choose to trust the Church Christ has founded ( well…that is yet to be proven ) and in its representatives. Can you imagine a universal Chruch without a leader? We would all be believing different things like the many Christian denominations. We need the guidance provided by the Pope and the magisterium. I can see that you do not accept this.

It is not only in the different denominations where there are different beliefs, I visited another thread on the sinlessness of Mary - and two Catholic posters were at variance on what they had each been taught about the “Immaculate Conception” - one stating that Mary’s mother was also “holy” the other refuting that saying that this is not what they were taught…that is *within *the Cathoic church - ? - so whether there is confusion visibly outside amongst various denominations - or less visibly inside “the Church Christ founded” - it is there. And what better course then, when this occurs, than to place your “implicit faith” in God, in Jesus, in the Holy Spirit…to enable you to discern what is true?

If it has become that complicated, I believe it is not of His doing,I do not have to study theology to have Faith. Amen to that! but that it is the result of those who have a mandate of their own and have made it appear complicated in order to sustain the authority over their members by implying they have better “knowledge” and “understanding” – watering down the right of every believers promise of the sufficiency of the leading of the Holy Spirit in their own lives to be able to reveal His truth and distinguish what is true. I do not believe that we all have our own truths -…that is relativism and you should be cautious in this regard.I agree with that…our own truths are worthless and don’t stand up against His truth…The “truth” that we are each promised when it gets too HUGE or complicated for us…The Holy Spirit is *your *promise too I honestly don’t know in what way you’re applying the word “relativism”…sorry.

 

[Cinette]

LeeAnn -

"It is not only in the different denominations where there are different beliefs, I visited another thread on the sinlessness of Mary - and two Catholic posters were at variance on what they had each been taught about the “Immaculate Conception” - one stating that Mary’s mother was also “holy” the other refuting that saying that this is not what they were taught…that is within the Cathoic church - ? - so whether there is confusion visibly outside amongst various denominations - or less visibly inside “the Church Christ founded” - it is there. And what better course then, when this occurs, than to place your “implicit faith” in God, in Jesus, in the Holy Spirit…to enable you to discern what is true?
My point exactly! I never said that all Catholics believe the same thing - of course you will find ignorant Catholics - that is PRECISELY why it is necessary to have a central authority. Isn’t that plain LeeAnn?

If it has become that complicated, I believe it is not of His doing,I do not have to study theology to have Faith. Amen to that! but that it is the result of those who have a mandate of their own and have made it appear complicated in order to sustain the authority over their members by implying they have better “knowledge” and “understanding” – watering down the right of every believers promise of the sufficiency of the leading of the Holy Spirit in their own lives to be able to reveal His truth and distinguish what is true. I do not believe that we all have our own truths -…that is relativism and you should be cautious in this regard.I agree with that…our own truths are worthless and don’t stand up against His truth…The “truth” that we are each promised when it gets too HUGE or complicated for us…The Holy Spirit is your promise too I honestly don’t know in what way you’re applying the word “relativism”…sorry.
Reply With Quote

Oh LeeAnn, put down your machine gun and pause to reflect. :nope:

 

[fbl9]

hi LeeAnn.you are saying because the theology is complicated it can not come from Christ.Let’s take something simple Christ is God and man,try expalining how in one or two sentences.Or the Holy Trinity,explain that one with out getting to complex…Actually the dogmas of the Church are quite simple but when one gets into the explaining the how ,why what, where ,that is when things get complex,cause we are dealing with what is divine and not of this world.next perhaps you may turn your attention to church laws,this is a very broad area…my opinion in regards to church laws is:we are humans and as such we will seek ways around things to make it easier or to give excuses to dismiss one’s behavior. so we have the laws to adress such excuses.

 

[Leeann]

LeeAnn -

"It is not only in the different denominations where there are different beliefs, I visited another thread on the sinlessness of Mary - and two Catholic posters were at variance on what they had each been taught about the “Immaculate Conception” - one stating that Mary’s mother was also “holy” the other refuting that saying that this is not what they were taught…that is within the Cathoic church - ? - so whether there is confusion visibly outside amongst various denominations - or less visibly inside “the Church Christ founded” - it is there. And what better course then, when this occurs, than to place your “implicit faith” in God, in Jesus, in the Holy Spirit…to enable you to discern what is true?
My point exactly! I never said that all Catholics believe the same thing - of course you will find ignorant Catholics - that is PRECISELY why it is necessary to have a central authority. Isn’t that plain LeeAnn?

Response Leann:
Couldn’t be any plainer or clearer to me, and that is exactly what I’ve been saying - when a teaching is confusing or being taught in a confusing matter (no matter what denom/faith) - or being understood in a confusing manner -why not go directly to the source…the HIGHEST sole authority…for clarification…if it His truth…it will stand…if it’s not…your implicit faith in HIM and HIS promise to you will direct your way.

History has proven that “implicit faith” in men alone and their theories/teachings/doctrines can be devastating - in so-called Protestant off shoots and in Catholic beliefs also.
If it has become that complicated, I believe it is not of His doing,I do not have to study theology to have Faith. Amen to that! but that it is the result of those who have a mandate of their own and have made it appear complicated in order to sustain the authority over their members by implying they have better “knowledge” and “understanding” – watering down the right of every believers promise of the sufficiency of the leading of the Holy Spirit in their own lives to be able to reveal His truth and distinguish what is true. I do not believe that we all have our own truths -…that is relativism and you should be cautious in this regard.I agree with that…our own truths are worthless and don’t stand up against His truth…The “truth” that we are each promised when it gets too HUGE or complicated for us…The Holy Spirit is your promise too I honestly don’t know in what way you’re applying the word “relativism”…sorry.
Reply With Quote

Oh LeeAnn, put down your machine gun and pause to reflect. :nope:

No machine gun Cinette…just replying to your statements as you were to mine. That’s what discussion is all about. Different viewpoints here, but that’s all in the process of learning.

I have reflected…it’s your turn now to do the same, it’s good to have “child like faith” - in HIM - Christ wants that from us.

with love in Christ

Back to the “house work” now!!!

 

[Leeann]

hi LeeAnn.you are saying because the theology is complicated it can not come from Christ.

Cinette: Post #341

I do not understand all the Church teaches because the subject is HUGE and I am no theologian. But I have implicit faith in the Church.

Leeann:
This is what I said: (*this was in relation to our conversation about “implicit faith” and where we place it - in this specific case it was with regards to the Catholic Church - but I mean *for “any” faith/denomination also - not just Catholic)

If it has become that complicated, I believe it is not of His doing, but that it is the result of those who have a mandate of their own and have made it appear complicated in order to sustain the authority over their members by implying they have better “knowledge” and “understanding” – watering down the right of every believers promise of the sufficiency of the leading of the Holy Spirit in their own lives to be able to reveal His truth and distinguish what is true.

Let’s take something simple Christ is God and man,try expalining how in one or two sentences.Or the Holy Trinity,explain that one with out getting to complex.

Actually the dogmas of the Church are quite simple but when one gets into the explaining the how ,why what, where ,that is when things get complex,cause we are dealing with what is divine and not of this world.

Well…if the dogmas of the Church are so simple…why is there a need for such a “complex” explanation of them?
To state simply that it is because you are dealing with something “divine and not of this world”…again, would bring the person back full circle at just having to place their “implicit faith” in the Church, or whoever tells them, “that it is divine”…implying that it’s ‘too hard for you to understand - trust me.’

next perhaps you may turn your attention to church laws,this is a very broad area…my opinion in regards to church laws is:we are humans and as such we will seek ways around things to make it easier or to give excuses to dismiss one’s behavior. so we have the laws to adress such excuses.

Oh my…I wasn’t even thinking of church laws (do you mean the canon)…I was just concentrating on the “implicit faith” thing overall…trying to keep it within the “thread” of “if you are a Christian,what is the real reason for you not being Catholic?” -
my reason was the claim of “sole authority” of the Church,etc. - being THE church,etc.

The churches are here for a purpose and we all need the instruction and guidance of those who are above us in understanding and authority (in regards to the questions you asked above ) - however - Christ’s message was pretty simple and clear - not a lot of theology there - He made it clear enough for the ordinary people of His day, why should it be so complex now?

Any dogmas or doctrines that are so complex - too huge to even consider because we think we lack the “knowledge” or are not “theologians” and encourages us to place our “implicit faith” in them or **their organization **is dangerous.

I simply believe that if we place our “implicit faith” is in HIM …the truth will be clear and He’ll lead us in the right direction,
He will not be mocked, He will not share His glory or honour with anyone, He will honour a humble and sincere person seeking His truth.

Thanks fb19 for your (name removed by moderator)ut - I typed this in quickly and I hope it doesn’t come across “short” or " brisk" or something…I meant it in just an ordinary conversational tone…these written threads don’t allow for “tone” or “mood”…well…sometimes I guess they do! God Bless

 

[CentralFLJames]

Any dogmas or doctrines that are so complex - too huge to even consider because we think we lack the “knowledge” or are not “theologians” and encourages us to place our “implicit faith” in them or **their organization **is dangerous.

I’d be more fearful of the 800 million or so private “simple” interpretations that are out there in “Protestant Land” competing for recognition of infallible status. We don’t need 800 million people all trying to be a pope and each telling us what the truth is. I don’t think anyone on the planet has the time to sort through the complex nest of 800 million ever changing personal manifestos and personal creeds.

Fortunately Christ made it very simple for us to see who to listen to:

“Thou are Peter and upon this Rock I build my Church” and
“Those that reject you reject me”

What could be more simple than just trusting in the Highest Authority on the planet - The Catholic Church under the divine protection of the Holy Spirit?

James

 

[latinonly]

**If you are a Christian, what is the real reason for you not being a Catholic? - 3 **

Why aren’t you Catholic? Tell the truth.

Note:

“If you are a Christian, what is the real reason for you not being a Catholic -1?”

And

“If you are a Christian, what is the real reason for you not being a Catholic -2?”

Were closed because, they both exceeded the maximum number of posts.

Please, continue your remarks on this topic, here.

Most who think they are Catholic are not. Unless you attend a traditional Mass You have left the church and Leaving the Church is leaving Christ. The "new Mass is invalid and anybody who attends it is no more catholic than a Methodist or lutheran.

 

[CentralFLJames]

Most who think they are Catholic are not. Unless you attend a traditional Mass You have left the church and Leaving the Church is leaving Christ. The "new Mass is invalid and anybody who attends it is no more catholic than a Methodist or lutheran.

Nice first introduction post latinonly. Are you really Catholic or a protestant or schismatic pretending to be one to give the impression that Catholics are infighting among themselves?

James

 

[fbl9]

Oh my…I wasn’t even thinking of church laws (do you mean the canon)…I was just concentrating on the “implicit faith” thing overall…trying to keep it within the “thread” of “if you are a Christian,what is the real reason for you not being Catholic?” -
my reason was the claim of “sole authority” of the Church,etc. - being THE church,etc.

The churches are here for a purpose and we all need the instruction and guidance of those who are above us in understanding and authority (in regards to the questions you asked above ) - however - Christ’s message was pretty simple and clear - not a lot of theology there - He made it clear enough for the ordinary people of His day, why should it be so complex now?

Any dogmas or doctrines that are so complex - too huge to even consider because we think we lack the “knowledge” or are not “theologians” and encourages us to place our “implicit faith” in them or **their organization **is dangerous.

I simply believe that if we place our “implicit faith” is in HIM …the truth will be clear and He’ll lead us in the right direction,
He will not be mocked, He will not share His glory or honour with anyone, He will honour a humble and sincere person seeking His truth.

Thanks fb19 for your (name removed by moderator)ut - I typed this in quickly and I hope it doesn’t come across “short” or " brisk" or something…I meant it in just an ordinary conversational tone…these written threads don’t allow for “tone” or “mood”…well…sometimes I guess they do! God Bless

thanks for the reply LeeAnn…perhaps sometimes at an economy of words i may come across harsh…may i again ask you to try and expalin the Holy trinity in a couple of senetences or how Jesus is God and man…theology is not the doctrine but the how,why,what and where.

 

[Leeann]

thanks for the reply LeeAnn…perhaps sometimes at an economy of words i may come across harsh…may i again ask you to try and expalin the Holy trinity in a couple of senetences or how Jesus is God and man…theology is not the doctrine but the how,why,what and where.

I can’t explain either of those in a couple of sentences.
As I said,
"The churches are here for a purpose and we all need the instruction and guidance of those who are above us in understanding and authority (in regards to the questions you asked above ) - however - Christ’s message was pretty simple and clear - not a lot of theology there - He made it clear enough for the ordinary people of His day, why should it be so complex now? "

I understand that theology is not the doctrine, however it weighs in heavy as a necessary support for different dogmas or beliefs that are in need of support…the more complex and complicated the dogmas become…the more “theology” is applied.

However, if doctrines/dogmas have developed to a point where they have become so complex that they cannot be comprehended by the ordinary members of *any *particular faith - and the answer for them is that they are to put their “implicit faith” in the the ones developing it as opposed to putting their “implicit faith” in God - I believe that is dangerous. Couple that with being taught that, it’s your “choice” - you don’t have to stay - but if you do leave or fail to adhere to what we say is the truth, remember that without us, you have no hope of salvation because we are the ONLY true church.
(*whatever *faith/denomination).

Some scripture to follow.

God Bless

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