Sure, no one likes to be told what to do, but one can always appreciate later what one has to undergo now. Those “stern” nuns worked for having a room inside a convent and decided to live in poverty just so the kids would be able to read and write. That’s what was attractive. Love comes in all sizes.
Emphatically no, this is clericalism, the priests cannot solve these problems without laity that are willing to first examine their own belief, build it up themselves (seeking out good priests where they can *find *them), and then help others.
Whatever happened to personal responsibility? Is it the Priest’s fault if his parishioners nod and smile at the homily, but do nothing with it? Is it the priest’s fault if he continually tells of the importance of the Sacrament of reconciliation, but no one goes? Is it the priest’s fault if he continually reminds the parish of the importance of supporting the parish financially, but they do not act on his instruction. This is a pathetic attempt at shifting the blame on someone who works hard for little money, instead of asking yourself, “How can I improve my Parish?”
No, no, no!
Valid points.
Again you shift the blame. You may see yourself as a perfect Catholic, I assure you, you are not. None of us are. Go to your Parish office, make an appointment to talk who you need something, and DO SOMETHING! Stop sitting at home and denigrating the priesthood on the internet! If CCD is weak, volunteer! Ask about facilitating a Bible Study, or some other faith enrichment program. Assist your youth ministry so they can be properly formed in the faith. Be an example to your fellow parishioners. There are parish councils. Reevaluate how much you support financially. If you can afford to give more by eating at home more often, then make the sacrifice and do so. Approach your priest about Holy Hour and Benediction. There is so much more you can do than sitting at home and complaining about the priest.
Yes, we can encourage people to dress appropriately (both indirectly but also directly). We can engage people on Church teaching.
Hi sure,
I hope I didn’t come across as trying to portray myself as perfect. I am not.
Do you feel the clergy are innocent in the downward spiral of the American Church in the past 40 years? If not, then they should be urged to take responsibility for what they, alone, are responsible for.
However, if the CCD program is weak, it’s ultimately the Pastor’s responsibility. If there are unorthodox instructors (hard to call them catechists) it’s the Pastor’s fault, for he is ultimately responsible for the DRE and the RE program.
That doesn’t address the fact that 25% of the registered people in a parish provide the financial support.
Well, you have no idea what my family and I do in our parish. My posts on this subject are well thought out and are not meant to be indiscriminate Priest bashing. I can take care of myself and my family, but, really, I do not have influence over the other 3499 families in my parish.
I don’t feel the clergy are innocent, but neither are the laity. Look at Japan, where Christianity survived without contact with priests. We haven’t had nearly that level of faithfulness with the aid of the Sacraments. I think the reason your posts come off as priest-bashing is that it seems you wish to absolve the laity of all responsibility (which ironically is the backside of clericalism).
Caution here! By this standard, Jesus was a pathetic Shepherd, as most of his followers left Him (John 6:66).
Aw, c’mon now. We’re talking the priestly order of Melchisedech here, not God Himself.
But do or do not priests act in persona Christi? Do or do not priests participate in the priestly ministry of Christ by offering sacrifice? Are you still ready to absolve the responsibility of the laity, and place it all on the shoulders of the priest? This problem is a problem for all of us, and not just the ordained priesthood.
Well, I’m just thinking: If we cannot hold the perfection of our Lord’s preaching accountable, how much less can we hold His fallible priests accountable? It really is up to each of us to hear and read the Word before letting it take root in our hearts. I recall the parable of the sower here. The Priests are sowers, in my mind.
Beginning in the west, there was a major shift in thinking 30-40 years ago, which the HS anticipated and that’s one reason Vat II was necessary. People began asking questions, doubting authority over matters that had previously been taken for granted, and placing individual freedom as the highest value. God did place a high value on our freedom, but calls us to use it in such a a way as to glorify Him, not ourselves, because this is where our glory, holiness, and happiness is found. Anyway, if the Latin Mass was still the order of the day, none of this would change-we’d still have the same problem. It’s the problem of human sin.
I disagree. I think that some people…nuns…or people in the pews with us or people in these forumns have a Holier then thou attitude…and then if something isn’t working it MUST be someone elses fault…like the priest…not theirs.
I’m tired of trying to get through to people…and I’m a newly returned Catholic who goes to daily Mass…what must it be like for someone searching or is new on their faith journey.Yes it is the priests fault, the priest has the mission to sanctify the people, if the people are not sanctified it is because the priest failed in his mission, people cannot sanctify themselves they need God’s grace which is received THROUGH the priest.
This does not absolve the laity. The problems in the Church are not solely the fault of the priests, and will not be rectified solely by the priests