This is what he said:
You have lack of proof that there is a multiverse, but odds are you believe one exists anyway.
You can’t even prove to yourself that you exist, yet you believe you exist anyway.
Or do you not believe you exist because you can’t prove it?
I don’t know why you would assume that.
pinches self Done. Next?
Pinching yourself proves nothing. You could be delusional thinking you have a self to pinch.
I would assume that because without a multiverse you have no other cause but God to point to for the universe to come into existence.
Well, that means there would have to be a “self” that believes it was pinched. Is your argument that he cannot prove that he exists or that he cannot prove that he exist in the form that he thinks that he does? From your comment above it appears to be the latter.Pinching yourself proves nothing. You could be delusional thinking you have a self to pinch.
But if you were just a figure in someone else’s dream, you would not have a real self to pinch.
I see the dream problem as posing a problem opposite to the one that you see in that figments in a dream or in some way or another a reflection of ones self one’s mental state. What in a dream is not some reflection of one’s self and how one see the world? Though I don’t ever recall asking myself these questions when I’m dreaming. Have you There do exists people that end up questioning self existence in a waking state…
Prove as in imbue with a sense of confidence about a proposition? It seems that the proposition of the self is something for which most people are already convinced except in cases if severe threat or anxiety emotional stress; during such experiences on’s ability to feel their usual emotions may be inhibited. One’s sense of self seems to be directly tied to their emotions and the emotional numbness has been known to make one loose sense of self and identity. Put another way Descartes’s expression might be better reworded as “I feel, therefore I am.” During depersonalization/derealization a person may see their body as more of an automaton acting and responding on it’s own. Some one can come into this state in response to various drugs. Incidentally the pathway out of this state may at times also include the use of drugs.How do you prove you are not a figure in someone else’s dream?
No, prove as in demonstrate logically.
That sounds a bit self contradicting.
You cannot demonstrate that you exist without first experiencing your own existence, in which case you cannot prove that you exist. Every demonstration is founded on the assumption that what you are demonstrating might not be true, as well as that it might be true. But you cannot assume that you might not exist since you immediately experience your existence. Demonstrating your existence therefore is impossible by the rules of logic, since experience is more fundamental than logic (and experience itself might even be delusional).
Many are. I don’t know that they all are. I also get the impression that for many the existence of the self is treated as an axiom; it seems the question of one’s existence starts off with a premise being one’s existence.
Right. We intuit, rather than prove, our own existence.
Those who sincerely repent are not doomed. Those who do not repent are doomed, right along with the Christians who do not repent. We ask the Lord to forgive us our trespasses, and atheism is a trespass. The CCC calls it a mortal sin. Mortal means deadly … the killing of our innocence.
I often forget that when you use the term “Atheist” that you are referring to “strong atheist.” While most of the one’s I know are “agnostic atheist.” The general argument I hear isn’t that the existence of god/God/gods are impossible, but only that one is not convinced of the existence of a god concept that has been presented.
I really don’t understand how there can be much difference between an atheist and an agnostic. In neither case is there repentance for sins and begging for God’s forgiveness.
In practice most agnostics are atheists because they don’t pray when they urgently need help. They take it for granted there will be no response.
Catholicism does not profess that only Christians have relationships with God.
As used the two attributes are mutually independent. A person can be one, the other, both, or neither. As far as the difference between a strong atheist and an agnostic/weak atheist neither is convinced that any god claims are true. A strong atheist makes the claim that no gods exists. A weak/agnostic one does not and would generally agree with your statement that no one can prove that no gods exists.