If you could, what changes if any would you make to the Ordinary Form?

[pnewton]

Some Catholics think it’s vanity to wear veil.

I have always found it beautiful. We have a few women on Saturday night that wear a veil. Their demeanor prevents any judgement of vanity. I do not think it just me, as I see how others interact with these various women, being one of the last to leave. You might be surprised how much it would mean to others to see this.

 

[OraLabora]

I would restore the Tridentine version of the Confiteor, and mandate that as the only penitential act to be used in Mass.

The return of a troped Kyrie was actually a restoration of tradition lost at Trent. If you look in the current Graduale Romanum, you’ll see a title under each Kyriale. For example, “Orbis Factor” for Kyrie XI, for Sundays of Ordinary Time. So I would not want that penitential option removed. I’d rather see good plainchant music adapted for it.

This is what Orbis Factor sounded like:

So be careful to not throw out the baby with the bathwater!

I would restore having all Masses celebrated Ad Orientem.

This wouldn’t work in all places due to the church layout. And this was true before Vatican II as well. In fact rubrics existed for versus populum celebration well before the Council. While ad orientem was the most common orientation for the priest, it was by no means universal. I have a 1935 ceremonial to back that up. And no I’m not talking about churches built the wrong way around due to geography, I am talking about churches (usually cathedrals or conventual churches) where the altar was between the choir and the nave.

 

[ChristMyLife]

Make sure you read my comments I made after my long suggestion post so you understand the full context of where I’m coming from.

 

[Augustinian]

LOL - That might not go so well. I know there were people that like to wear them, though.

Such a rule would require the development of a new sturdy lace fabric appropriate for veils for funeral homes to loan to mourners showing up to Catholic funeral masses. Sturdy enough to endure frequent washing, women are going to want to take lice back from Uncle Caleb’s funeral.

 

[gracepoole]

This actually wasn’t a real problem when veils were required. When women forgot or didn’t own one, a tissue sufficed nicely.

 

[SantaMaria]

Sorry I should’ve used the word “encourage” instead of “compulsory” to veil

 

[Mi_Rose]

Head covering was required not veils. A lot of women wore hats.

 

[giuseppe96]

I would love to see an increased use of the OF ad orientem in Latin, or just have the readings and prayers of the faithful in the vernacular while keeping the rest of the Ordinary in Latin.

 

[pnewton]

I didn’t get that at first either, but I gathered what you meant from the context. You want to wear a head cover, but don’t like to stand out. That seems reasonable.

I would love to see an increased use of the OF ad orientem in Latin, or just have the readings and prayers of the faithful in the vernacular while keeping the rest of the Ordinary in Latin.

While we never have Mass ad orientem, a few years back, my priest started saying the Mass once a week in Latin during Lent, both as a change, and as preparation to use Latin in Masses that used to be bi-lingual.

So, here is one anecdote from the first year we did this. Of course, the Gloria was the most challenging for us, but we got it down pat, thanks to YouTube. So on Sunday (English Mass), for some reason the priest slipped into Latin, with “Gloria in excelsis deo.” My heart jumped and with one second for a decision, I followed up in Latin. The only problem, I did not have it all memorized. So during the next three lines, I scrambled and found the music for me and those with me so we could finish it. I found out later that it was an error and he had wanted it in English.

 

[gracepoole]

With all the color choices that Puffs and Kleenex offer these days, you have a reasonable chance of getting a tissue that matches your outfit

Bahahaha!

 

[quies]

I love these suggestions and agree with many, but…

…with approximately five million professing members, the beloved Arquidiócesis surrounding El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora la Reina de los Ángeles del Río Porciúncula is numerically the single largest diocese in the United States.

My parish here is a small neighborhood Church of over 4,600 households and has grown annually since I membered here 47 years ago. It will continue to grow. Regular additions, rebuildings, and remodels have occured along its journey. There are eight weekend Masses - all heavily attended.

There will never ever ever be a “regular” Sunday obligation Mass that will exceed 53 minutes.

It’s just the way it is. Sadly, Masses will never be longer. They will become shorter. IIRC, the “week-day” Mass “record” from a forumite is 22 minutes…?! We’re shooting for that, I guess.

 

[ChristMyLife]

If someone stops attending Mass because they are over an hour long, there is a problem with that person, not the Mass.

If all you’re concerned about is how long Mass goes then there’s a good chance that person needs to stop and think whether they actually believe in what the Church teaches or not.

 

[Augustinian]

If someone stops attending Mass because they are over an hour long, there is a problem with that person, not the Mass.

Traditionally, back in the day when Latin Mass was the only Mass, the average Sunday Mass was most usually less than an hour. Many parishes scheduled on the hour, 8 a.m , 9 a.m., 10 a.m.

I don’t understand people’s hurry either, but a brief mass is a long time tradition in a lot of places

 

[deMontfort]

ChristMyLife:

If someone stops attending Mass because they are over an hour long, there is a problem with that person, not the Mass.

Traditionally, back in the day when Latin Mass was the only Mass, the average Sunday Mass was most usually less than an hour. Many parishes scheduled on the hour, 8 a.m , 9 a.m., 10 a.m.

I don’t understand people’s hurry either, but a brief mass is a long time tradition in a lot of places

Yeah, I’ve seen it stated that pre-Vatican II priests would compete to see who could whip through the Tridentine Mass the fastest.

 

[pnewton]

They will become shorter. IIRC, the “week-day” Mass “record” from a forumite is 22 minutes…?! We’re shooting for that, I guess.

Weekday Masses are a little different. During Lent, our priest promises less a quick Mass (he does it early morning in Lent) specifically to help people who have to scoot off to work. A quick Mass can be a pastoral necessity.

 

[Peeps]

I agree with several other posters that an hour-long Mass allows for the most people to attend --in our large parishes, six Sunday Masses are said, and if the Masses were longer than an hour, there wouldn’t be time for that many Masses, and not as many people would be able to fit into the nave.

However, what I would say is that if anyone doesn’t get involved with their parish throughout the week in some area–either continued education (e.g. attending the parish Bible study), or charitable outreach (e.g., St. Vincent de Paul), or serving (e.g., teaching religious ed, music, Holy Dusters, etc.)–there might be a problem with that person, and perhaps there’s a good chance that person needs to stop and think whether they actually believe in what the Church teaches or not.

However, we really can’t judge others–everyone’s situation is different, and many people are serving God in their homes, communities (non-church volunteer organizations), or jobs/professions. And many people serve their parish by giving a lot of money, which is very necessary to a healthy parish!

All we can do is examine our own hearts.

 

[edward_george1]

Just a little comment I thought I’d add. I notice that a good many of the things people are saying that they’d like to be changed about the Ordinary Form are already part of the rite, they just aren’t done in some places (or many places). A great deal of the time, this is simply because there are many legitimate options for the way something is done. One could argue that this or that option is more or less ideal, but the leeway that pastors are given for determining what options to employ is actually very helpful. It enables things to be tailored to pastoral needs. I’ve found this helpful when doing funerals–sometimes there are some options for the readings or prayers or antiphons that might be a little “tone deaf,” as the kids are saying now, given the situation, particularly if the death was sudden or traumatic, or if the person was not practicing their faith.

I do acknowledge another situation, wherein the “changes” being proposed here are actually already in the rite, but are being ignored, even in a way that constitutes liturgical abuse. And I think there are some parts of the Ordinary Form itself that need to be changed somewhat. I also happen to think there were changes that needed to be made to the old rite (and I say that as someone who offers Mass in it quite frequently and who loves it very much).

Just my two cents.
-Fr ACEGC

 

[ChristMyLife]

And I think there are some parts of the Ordinary Form itself that need to be changed somewha

One of the most common parts I’ve seen priests wanting changed, and which was one of my things I’d like to see changed, would be a restoration of the Tridentine form of the Offertory.

Father would you personally like to see that?

Another common one is restoration of at least having the option to recite the prayers at the foot of the Altar - your opinion Father? Would you at least like to see them as an option?

 

[edward_george1]

Note: what I say here is my opinion, based on no real scholarly research into these things, but simply my own observations from practice.

I think the Prayers at the Foot of the Altar should have been retained, in exactly the form they were in. I think the dialogue between priest and server/people (and I’m fine with the people doing the responses) had a very strong sign value, especially in the penitential rite. We quite literally “confess our sins to one another,” and show mercy to one another, before proceeding on into the altar.

I do like the older offertory prayers better–it’s definitely a more fleshed out set of prayers that I think conveys the gravity of what’s going on a little better. When a friend and I were practicing Low Mass in seminary, he looked up at one point during the offertory and said "Wow. These prayers are intense!’ And they really are. A lot really converges there–the unworthiness of the priest, the purity of the offering, the prayers of the people of God. So I wouldn’t mind if we restored the older form of the offertory, or at least modified the current one to incorporate more of the language of the older.

-Fr ACEGC

 

[ChristMyLife]

Also Father when I mention restore the Tridentinr form into the Ordinary Form, I of course mean translated into vernacular with the option to recite in Latin…

Some people get confused I think and think I am saying I want them restores meaning they must be recited in Latin… Which is not the case, at least not for me.