If you could, what changes if any would you make to the Ordinary Form?

[PetraG]

That’s because of the way they teach Latin. If they taught it as a conversational language then perhaps Latin would be more accepted. Instead they only try to translate; personally I thought it was boring.

Do you propose a world in which the Roman Catholics in the US were so well-educated in Latin that they could in any sense be considered to have conversational mastery?

It’s pretty hard to find people in the US who are conversational in ANY second language, let alone a second language that is considered a dead language because it is not in daily use anywhere on the planet. (Notice I said, “dead,” not extinct. There are of course people who can speak Latin; there are no substantial communities where it is actually the daily language of choice.)

I took enough Latin that I could be coached to understand the kind of nuance you’re talking about; I don’t see that becoming a widespread phenomenon in the actual world we live in.

 

[ProVobis]

that is what you mean by “poetry,”

For example, the Suscipiat.

 

[PetraG]

For example, the Suscipiat.

I will second the idea that Latin has poetic possibilities in terms of melody that aren’t available in every language, and particularly not English.

Would you agree that if the Sign of Peace is to be retained at all, it would be better to place it in close proximity to the Kyrie and Confiteor and certainly before the Collect?

 

[ProVobis]

Do you propose a world in which the Roman Catholics in the US were so well-educated in Latin that they could in any sense be considered to have conversational mastery?

Believe it or not, Boris Johnson spent his own money in educating kids in Latin as he thought it was “absurd” that it was no longer required. And I don’t think he’s Catholic.

 

[Crusader30]

The Old offertory is much better. Much more extensive.

 

[PetraG]

Believe it or not, Boris Johnson spent his own money in educating kids in Latin as he thought it was “absurd” that it was no longer required. And I don’t think he’s Catholic.

Education in Latin is a great goal. Getting people to agree that any educated person ought to learn a second language at all is an uphill battle, though.

 

[Augustinian]

Believe it or not, Boris Johnson spent his own money in educating kids in Latin as he thought it was “absurd” that it was no longer required. And I don’t think he’s Catholic.

It wasn’t that long ago that education in Latin was very prevalent in public and private non-Catholic schools as well as Catholic institutions.

It lasted only a little bit longer in Catholic schools than it did among the general public. We had a Latin teacher at my inner city high school- although I didn’t take it.

 

[otrrl]

giuseppe96

Aug 18

I myself would omit the Prayers of the Faithful, it feels tedious and drags out too long sometimes, I feel that’s what the Collect is for. I would also forbid communion in the hand, I’m afraid that’s where Satanists are getting sacred hosts for black masses. Encourage ad orientem worship. And prohibit parish announcements during Mass, honestly we have bulletins for a reason. These announcements kinda detract from the reverent atmosphere immediately after receiving communion.]

I used to belong to a parish which resulted from a forced and unfriendly merger – one parish was debt free and the other had over a million in debt, for starters. At the debt-free parish, the excess singing makes the Mass 15 minutes longer than at the other church.

We have very poor singers, so the psalm is incomprehensible, also owing to bad acoustics. The prayer of the faithful has lost its meaning, it should be the prayer requests of that group of people, not as a litany composed by the priest last Thursday night. Skip the sign of peace. Skip the long procession in and the equally long procession out of church by the priest. The Sunday collection could be made before Mass. These are my starters.

I think the priest is trying to drive people away to other parishes so he can collapse the two churches into one.

 

[ChristMyLife]

prayer of the faithful has lost its meaning, it should be the prayer requests of that group of people, not as a litany composed by the priest last Thursday night. Skip the sign of peace. Skip the long procession in and the equally long procession out of church by the priest. The Sunday collection could be made before Mass. These are my starters.

Errr…

So basically you want Sunday Mass to be 30 minutes or less?

The OF Mass is already stripped down compared to the EF… And you’d like to see it stripped down even more?

Why don’t we just have the entire Mass be a Gospel reading followed by the Anaphora and dismissal… Weekday Masses of 5 min or less and Sunday Mass in 10 min or less… Skip all those lengthy and unnecessary boring parts…

 

[Augustinian]

I would also forbid communion in the hand, I’m afraid that’s where Satanists are getting sacred hosts for black masses.

I think that is mostly a myth. I’ve never heard of any “black masses” conducted by “Satanists” around here.

Everything has happened at least once, but I don’t think that this is something that is a real ongoing concern.

 

[ChristMyLife]

I’ve never heard of any “black masses” conducted by “Satanists” around here.

Also, couldn’t some nefarious Satanist just as easily not drink anything and get a dry mouth, pop the Eucharist in their and quickly walk away and spit it out and achieve the same thing?

Methinks this is a vapid argument to use against Communion in the hand.

 

[Augustinian]

The OF Mass is already stripped down compared to the EF…

As far as the time factor, I don’t think that is true at all, CML.

During the days of the Latin Mass, 42 minutes was about average. Now around here, the English language mass is a bit more than an hour. Not that I’m in a hurry to leave

 

[Augustinian]

Also, couldn’t some nefarious Satanist just as easily not drink anything and get a dry mouth, pop the Eucharist in their and quickly walk away and spit it out and achieve the same thing?

Theoretically, sure.

And in fact there have been tales told for centuries about Hosts being removed from churches for desecration, long before communion in the hand

 

[gracepoole]

I’d change the music, especially that used for the Responsorial Psalm. But my mom still looks forward to “On Eagle’s Wings” so to each her own.

What I’d really like to see return to the OF is the language that was used from the 70’s through the 90’s. That’s the version of the Creed that I know best and love, love. I’d adore if we went back to “And also with you.”

I guess I’d also ensure that every parish used altar bells.

 

[Augustinian]

What I’d really like to see return to the OF is the language that was used from the 70’s through the 90’s.

I think there is a lot to be said for keeping translations the same for long periods. People get used to it, its comforting to them.

A number of our Protestant friends are “KJV-only” types to one degree or another. They go strictly with the old-school King James translation, and I’m sure the “thees” “thous” and “thys” give them a sense of stability.

 

[gracepoole]

My husband’s response when the language was changed: “It doesn’t feel like home anymore.”

 

[quies]

… If they taught it as a conversational language then perhaps Latin would be more accepted. Instead they only try to translate; personally I think that approach is both boring and frustrating.

In the 1950’s, due to the nature of a subject matter that never required updating or revising, our public school system would recycle Latin textbooks year after year until the covers literally fell off.

In moments of daydreaming during class, I tried to imagine twenty-plus years of somnolent students holding the same weary book sitting on my desktop… The teacher was a wizened 90-year old lady that contributed little to cultivating enthusiastic immersion into the translations.

So, invariably the first-year books would always have the following notation with its droll humor written on the inside cover page…

LATIN:
All the people dead who wrote it.
All the people dead who spoke it.
All the people dead who learn it.
Blessed death - they surely earn it.

Ah, memories!

 

[Augustinian]

The teacher was a wizened 90-year old lady that contributed little to cultivating enthusiastic immersion into the translations.

I graduate high school in 1974, and our school’s Latin teacher was only part time Latin- only 2 Latin classes the rest of her day she taught English.

Anyhoo, during my time in school, they celebrated the 50th Anniversary of the institution’s founding in the early 1920’s, and she commented that she was part of the school’s original faculty. We pupils just sat there and though “so”.

Then she says she was “kidding”, she sure looked like it.

 

[pnewton]

I’d change the music, especially that used for the Responsorial Psalm

I have never understood the responsorial Psalm music in the liturgical literature that is published. They are all so weird to my ears. Melodies that do not resolve are like nails on a chalkboard, making me want to scream, “AND??? You can’t just end on that note!”

I gave up years ago and started writing my own, where the key of G ends on G, and A minor ends on A, just like God intended. I would send my psaltry somewhere to be published, if there was a sane Catholic publishing company. (“sane” means conforming to my expectations, of course)

 

[dochawk]

Anyhoo, during my time in school, they celebrated the 50th Anniversary of the institution’s founding in the early 1920’s, and she commented that she was part of the school’s original faculty. We pupils just sat there and though “so”.

Then she says she was “kidding”, she sure looked like it.

I recall Fr. McFadden stating that he was chosen as the primary celebrant (jebbies; there were a couple of dozen co-celebrants) because he was the only one there that had ben a novice under St. Ignatius . . . he later referred to freshmen having no names . . . and later set the gifts would be brought up by “some nameless ones” . . .



He’s also the reason that I can write clear, proper, and formal English with no effort.

hawk