"If you died right now, are you 100% sure you would go to Heaven? (St. Paul wasn't)

[look3467]

Wow!! Did you really just say that?!

Back to the original topic, maybe you should go to a nice quiet place and read Matthew 25. Then read it again. Yes God will always keep his promise. YOU, however have no way of knowing if you’ll keep YOUR promise to Him.

If Gods was not responsible for the fall of mankind, why suppose He in Jesus had to pay for the fall?

Peace>>>AJ

 

[look3467]

It sheds more light on purgatory if the WHOLE verse is quoted, not just the last half. In full it reads:

“If any man’s work burn, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire”

Now this causes a dilema. Where is this place? It can’t be heaven, since there is no suffering, which the fire symbolizes. Yet it can’t be referring to hell since nobody will be saved from there.

Mans works have absolutely no bearing on ones salvation simply because it is a free gift.
A free gift therefore need not: no recompense.
Freely given, so freely give.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[Bubble]

Hi: This is my first post. I read some of the entries carefully and others I skimmed, but from what I’m gathering, Protestants believe that they are saved because they accept Jesus and therefore think that salvation is assurred. To me, it sounds incredibly proud when I heard people say that they KNOW they are saved. They have made themselves the JUDGE over their own souls. Underneath this misplaced certainty, they are not placing their Faith in Jesus Christ. Their Faith resides in their own strength. They are so certain of their own fortitude . . . they are so sure that they will never betray Jesus and if they should, they will always be repentant of their sin. The spiritual arrogance is astounding!

A question to the Protestants here . . . how do you know that you will continue to accept Jesus until your death?

I ask this because I know several ex-Protestants, who seem to have lost their faith all together. They once believed in Jesus and accepted Him as their Savior and now they don’t. One has become an athiest, another worships a god called Osiris now. One simply doesn’t care or believe in anything anymore. And, I know several ex-Christians who have gone totally New Age – and Jesus is more of a wise teacher than a God and the 10 Commandments are really only optional guidelines .

These people, at one point, professed that they were saved by the blood of Jesus. Now, they no longer accept Him as their Savior. Their former friends say that these individuals were never really saved to begin with.

So, what assurance do you have that you will not end up like these people? How do you know that you will stay on the straight and narrow . . . and that you’re not one of those people who only think that they have accepted Jesus Christ, but down the road it will become clearer that you haven’t?

In the end, it seems, you have no more assurance of salvation than what you choose to accept or reject tomorrow.

 

[look3467]

Hi: This is my first post. I read some of the entries carefully and others I skimmed, but from what I’m gathering, Protestants believe that they are saved because they accept Jesus and therefore think that salvation is assured. To me, it sounds incredibly proud when I heard people say that they KNOW they are saved. They have made themselves the JUDGE over their own souls. Underneath this misplaced certainty, they are not placing their Faith in Jesus Christ. Their Faith resides in their own strength. They are so certain of their own fortitude . . . they are so sure that they will never betray Jesus and if they should, they will always be repentant of their sin. The spiritual arrogance is astounding!>>>Bubble

Either you accept the gift or you do not.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Do I have to earn that gift?.. If a gift, than why can I not boldly accept it?
Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Prior to Jesus there was no mercy: 1Pe 2:10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

**“To now be a people of God”, **requires to be born of God.

Yes, boldly I declare my salvation sealed by the power of the Holy Spirit which is in me.

2Co 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

I mean, what more can God do for us that we can not see to accept His gift boldly?

A question to the Protestants here . . . how do you know that you will continue to accept Jesus until your death?>>>Bubble

You don’t! Once your born of God you are a child of God, though you might fall, still, you’re his child.

I ask this because I know several ex-Protestants, who seem to have lost their faith all together. They once believed in Jesus and accepted Him as their Savior and now they don’t. One has become an athiest, another worships Osiris now (weird, I know). Their former Protestant friends say that these individuals were never really saved to begin with. These two men, at one point, were sure they were saved by the blood of Jesus. They were wrong.>>>Bubble

I know exactly what you mean.
Listen, God knows of every conceivable belief, condition and behavior of mankind. He also knows the limitations under the flesh.

If God was not in Jesus to start with, Jesus to would have failed as we fail.

God is a wonderful parent to us, in that He brought us into this world and is responsible for us as His children.
Many folks are led here, there and every where because they never really got a solid foundation.
They claimed this or that and then wind up being different al together.
Yes, they all suffer, for only those who know and understand the love of God have peace in their hearts.
I don’t condemn them but instead have compassion, for if they only knew to trust in Jesus, I know for a fact that He abides in us.

So, what assurance do you have that you will stay on the straight in narrow . . . and that you’re not one of those people who only think that they have accepted Jesus Christ, but down the road it will become clearer that you haven’t?>>>Bubble

Bubble, the reason we place our trust, reliance and faith in Jesus is because we know that in our own strength, we fall short.

I personally thank God in Jesus for saving my soul from my own inapt abilities and can rest )Rest assured) that He is able to hold on to me.

2Ti 1:12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.
I’ve committed my life and my soul to Him.
Need I fear?

Peace>>>AJ

 

[cruisin]

I will let John do the talking.

1jo 5:11 And his witness is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
1jo 5:12 He who has the Son has the life; he who has not the Son of God has not the life.
1jo 5:13 I have put these things in writing for you who have faith in the name of the Son of God, so that you may be certain that you have eternal life.

Why do we make things so difficult as humans.

My guess is those he was writing to was making it difficult as well.

Cruisin

 

[look3467]

Why do we make things so difficult as humans.>>>cruisin

Because we are limited! With Jesus, we are not!

Good choice of verses.

“so that you may be certain that you have eternal life.”

Beautiful words, wonderul words of life, so the song does…

Peace>>>AJ

 

[QuicumqueVult]

These ‘eternal security of the believer’ (ESOB) Protestant] people, at one point, professed that they were saved by the blood of Jesus. Now, they no longer accept Him as their Savior. Their former friends say that these individuals were never really saved to begin with.

Basically, most ESOBs have been ‘saved’ more than once. That is, every time they hear the question that opened this thread (and I speak here from experience as I was ‘saved’ several times when the evangelists asked that question at the various ‘revivals’ I attended as a youth), they realise they are not 100% sure and ‘accept Jesus as their personal saviour’ (again) in case they weren’t sincere the first time they said the ‘Sinners’ Prayer’.

The upside of the ESOB heresy is its reliance on the grace of God for anyone to be saved. Nobody earns salvation by their own merit. The Councils of Orange (contra Pelagianism) and Trent (contra Lutheranism in its Decree on Justification) affirm that salvation is a free gift of God. So no Catholic may claim they will attain the Beatific Vision (ie ‘are saved’) by their works and merits alone. But every Catholic in this forum should know that already.

The downside of the ESOB heresy is that in the end it’s down to each individual believer’s ‘Heilgewissheit’ (assurance of salvation, Luther’s term, though he was not ESOB by any stretch). Funny how they tried to put the focus back on God’s initiative, but in the end unwittingly put salvation squarely back in the hands of ‘believers’ by their insistence that true Christians must have ‘assurance of salvation’.

By the way, neither Luther nor Calvin, so-called ‘magisterial reformers’, were ESOB; both taught perseverance of the saints, which is not too far from the magisterium.

The genius of Catholicism is its insistence on sacramental efficacy and hence the objectivity of grace received. Subjective assurance (sentiment as salvation) has always been a largely Protestant affectation, and its chief weakness (in my view). Protestantism has always been about people who are insecure in their faith, who then project their insecurity on the ‘church’ to which they belong. Something happens to them that makes them feel more ‘saved’ and they start a new ‘church’ for true believers who believe like them and have a sufficiently equivalent experience to merit inclusion in their new ‘true church’.

Stick with The Church. It will ‘save’ you (a lot of hassle as well).

 

[look3467]

QuicumqueVult

Great words!

The Church then is your strength, fine with me.
You are happy and satisfied with that view and so I am to.

Thought we both think differently, we both know Christ personally, I mean in spirit, thereby are of the same family of God.
I don’t go to church but am in the word constantly, not to conquer, but to stimulate by words those who otherwise would not have any interest in the bible to begin to investigate and spend time in the word.

I am saved by the blood of Christ and that suffices me.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[cruisin]

Wasn’t it Paul that wrote

" I buffet my body daily "

Christianity is a daily endevor. Not a 1 time dunk and thats it.

 

[look3467]

Wasn’t it Paul that wrote

" I buffet my body daily "

Christianity is a daily endeavor. Not a 1 time dunk and thats it.

Salvation is a one time thing, the trial of your faith isn’t for you are tested daily.
And that you can bank on, but salvation is a slam dunk that is, if you believe, trust, rely and have complete faith in it!

Peace>>>AJ

 

[QuicumqueVult]

Christianity is a daily endevor. Not a 1 time dunk and thats it.

Actually (and I do not wish to be pedantic or confrontational), no ESOB sect or denomination teaches baptismal regeneration. That is, they do not believe in the efficacy of Baptism to save, eg cleanse from sin, confer the Holy Spirit, etc. ESOB sects generally teach that it’s the moment of a believer’s decision that is the beginning (and end!) of salvation. Baptism is merely a symbolic ‘public proclamation’ of ‘having been saved’ (already). Again, ironically it seems it’s down to the ‘believer’ whether he or she is saved.

 

[look3467]

Actually (and I do not wish to be pedentic or confrontational), no ESOB denomination teaches baptismal regeneration. That is, they do not believe in the efficacy of Baptism to save, eg cleanse from sin, confer the Holy Spirit, etc. ESOB sects generally teach that it’s the moment of a believer’s decision that is the beginning of salvation. Baptism is merely a symbolic ‘public proclamation’ of ‘having been saved’ already by making a prior decision. Again, ironically it seems it’s down to the ‘believer’ whether he or she is saved.

Down to the believer is a correct statement.
For from within lies the springs of living waters and it flows out wards, not in wards as many seem to believe.

Jesus was baptized, meaning that in order to redeem the world, He had to be baptized in it to deliver it from it’s lost estate.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[QuicumqueVult]

For from within lies the springs of living waters and it flows out wards, not in wards as many seem to believe.

I believe that the Holy Spirit is conferred at Baptism. It’s an outside-in job.

At Jesus’ Baptism, God the Holy Spirit descended on God the Son in the form of a dove. (NB: that was not when he became the Son of God and Messiah; that’s heresy, by name ‘adoptionism’!) God the Father stated His delight in His co-eternal Son. The Trinity are therefore present. Father, Son and Holy Spirit. It’s all about the Trinity. And it begins not with us in our feeble desires and decision, but with our Baptism. That’s when we received the Spirit by which we cry, ‘Abba, Father!’

It’s all God’s doing my friend! I hope we agree?

 

[look3467]

I believe that the Holy Spirit is conferred at Baptism. It’s an outside-in job.

At Jesus’ Baptism, the Holy Spirit descended on Him in the form of a dove. That Father stated His delight His Son. The Trinity are present. Father, Son and Holy Spirit. It’s all about the Trinity. And it begins not with us in our feeble desires and decision, but with Baptism. That’s when we received the Spirit by which we cry, ‘Abba, Father!’

It’s all God’s doing my friend! I hope we agree?

Yes, you got it right!

Yes, Baptism is a symbol symbolizing the death burial and resurrection of Jesus in our souls as we are reckoned to be.

Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Reckoning then is a spiritual experience.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[QuicumqueVult]

Yes, Baptism is a symbol symbolizing the death burial and resurrection of Jesus in our souls as we are reckoned to be.

Yes, we are Baptised into Christ’s death and raised to new life. The reckoning bit is imputation from God’s side.

But Baptism, according to Romans 6, is the means. It’s not just a symbol. It’s instrumental. I hear overtones of Keswick theology perhaps?

 

[QuicumqueVult]

It’s 4.00am in the UK so I’m off to bed. Nighty night all. I’m knackered…

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[Delraek]

Yes, you got it right!

Yes, Baptism is a symbol symbolizing the death burial and resurrection of Jesus in our souls as we are reckoned to be.

Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Reckoning then is a spiritual experience.

Peace>>>AJ

look3467,

You don’t seem to share the beliefs of most of the protestants I’ve been reading on this forum. Are your beliefs your own personal interpretation of the Bible? Most of the protestants here would not agree that someone could choose Jesus ***after ***they die. Please correct me if I misspoke, but I thought I read one of your posts that claimed this.

 

[look3467]

Yes, we are Baptised into Christ’s death and raised to new life. The reckoning bit is imputation from God’s side.

But Baptism, according to Romans 6, is the means. It’s not just a symbol. It’s instrumental. I hear overtones of Keswick theology perhaps?

Sleep soundly for God watches over you for all eternity.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[look3467]

look3467,

You don’t seem to share the beliefs of most of the protestants I’ve been reading on this forum. Are your beliefs your own personal interpretation of the Bible? Most of the protestants here would not agree that someone could choose Jesus ***after ***they die. Please correct me if I misspoke, but I thought I read one of your posts that claimed this.

Delraek

I was raised a Catholic and then a Baptist. So I know both sides.
And yes, if I was to go to a baptist or any Jesus only churches, I would not last long there.

I am open minded and open to all the graciousness of God to wards mankind.

But you see, all the madness of religion has it’s purpose. For some it holds them together, some need it for spiritual support, and yet for others are appalled by it.

If love could be understood a midst all the differences, then all of the madness of religion could produce good fruit, in than could we exercises the commandment to love one another.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[flyersfan1088]

If Gods was not responsible for the fall of mankind, why suppose He in Jesus had to pay for the fall?

Peace>>>AJ

MAN was responsible for his own fall. If you wish to blame God for giving us freewill, that’s your business.