If you do Not believe that Blessed Mary is the Mother of God, than who do you believe Jesus Christ is?

[ClamDigger]

It is instructive and significant that each gospel begins with a “beginning”: cp Mat 1:1 (genesis); Mar 1:1 (archee); Luk 1:3 (anothen). And that the four gospel accounts are placed at the head of the New Testament. Here, in the coming of His Son, God has begun the work of His new, spiritual, “creation” – the corner piece, the foundation stone of which is His Son.

They are speaking of the beginning of the earthly life of Christ, not the “beginning” of Christ Himself! Christ has no beginning or end!

As a separate point, it may be noted how often the Greek “ktisis” (creation) – when used in the NT – signifies, not the creation of Genesis, **but the new, spiritual creation, in Christ, **of regenerated and forgiven men and women who bear his name.

Okay? Aaaaaaaaaand, how exactly does this make Christ a created being?

THE WORD: Jesus was a man (Act 2:22; 1Ti 2:5; Rom 8:3; Heb 2:14) who spoke God’s words (Joh 8:28; 7:16). Thus, one of his names is “the word of God” (1Jo 1:1; Rev 19:13; 1:2 – only 3 other instances of John’s use of the phrase “word of God”, all referring to Christ personally). In Greek philosophy, “logos” = an impersonal, abstract wisdom; but in Hebrew thought, “logos” = God Himself. Yahweh is the source of all wisdom! Here “logos” occurs with the definite article (“ho”) which serves to strengthen its meaning. Hence, **‘The Word’ can also be seen to be the “Divine Expression”. ****Christ was exactly this. **It was in Christ that God fully revealed Himself to mankind. It was through Christ’s life and mission that God expressed and illustrated His new covenant, showing us the better way – which is the power of salvation for those who believe.
WITH: “Pros” = facing toward or moving toward.
THE WORD WAS GOD: As John used the definite article (“ho”) to strengthen the meaning of “logos”, so here there is no definite article: ie, “THE word” was not THE God personally, but rather “of God”, or “godly”, or A (manifestation of) God. (In v 14: John writes that **“we beheld his glory”, **as of one who came from God, and was therefore “divine”.) This phrase is translated, “The word was DIVINE” (Moffatt).

It does not say “of”. Where does it say, exactly, “and the Word was of (tou) God” or “the Word was a manifestation (phanerosis) of (tou) God”? You read so much into scripture, it’s absolutely ridiculous. Where are the words “phanerosis” or “tou” in this passage, “kai Theos en ho Logos”?

John is affirming Christ’s divinity, not his deity. Christ was the Son of God, the ‘Divine Expression’ from heaven which dwelt among us, “the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being” (Heb 1:3).

What? Is affirming Christ’s divinity but not his deity? You do realize that they are synonyms, don’t you?
Deity (de·i·ty)
The essential nature or condition of being a god; divinity.

This forms a much wider study on John 1 should you be interested in better understanding the beginning of that spiritual creation you only need ask.
In the Masters Service…SM

Now answer these ones:
Why did Thomas call Jesus “My Lord and My God” in John 20.28? Why did Elizabeth, under the influence of the Holy Ghost, call Mary the Mother of the Lord in Luke 1.43?

 

[skmorrison6]

Hi Clamdigger & Adrift

We press on towards truth.

Why did Thomas call Jesus “My Lord and My God” in John 20.28?

Back ground is important here wouldn’t you say?

If you go to (Luk_24:39,40). The point is Thomas needed to see Jesus Christ before he would believe and had previously stated he would need to place his hands in his side to know it was Jesus.

(Joh 20:26) Eight days later, his disciples were inside again, and Thomas was with them. Although the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you.”

This must have really confronted Thomas, as Jesus was not around, so he thought, when speaking his doubting words, now Jesus goes right to the heart of the matter by repeating word for word what Thomas had spoken.

I placed Thomas statement below for your convenience:

Joh 20:24 Now Thomas, one of the Twelve, called the Twin, was not with them when Jesus came.

Joh 20:25 So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord.” But he said to them, **“Unless I see in his hands the mark of the nails, and place my finger into the mark of the nails, and place my hand into his side, I will never believe.”/B]

(Joh 20:27) Then he (Jesus) said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side. Do not disbelieve, but believe.”

(Joh 20:28) Thomas answered him, **“My Lord and my God!”

**(Joh 20:29) Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me (Jesus)? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

MY GOD:

Here are some accounts angels in scripture being referred to as God. Do you know one who acts on His behalf may be called “God”?

(a) God being spoken of as angels: Gen 16:13; 18:13;

Gen 16:13 So she (Hagar) called the name of the LORD who spoke to her, **“You are a God of seeing,” **for she said, “Truly here I have seen him who looks after me.”

Angel speaking to Abraham…

Gen 18:13 The LORD said to Abraham, "Why did Sarah laugh and say, ‘Shall I indeed bear a child, now that I am old?’

Abraham called the angels LORD - YAHWEH = GOD. But are the angels actually God? NO you know they are not…but do they do his work? Yes. Do they represent Him and do the angels manifest His character and purpose, of course…how much more the Son.

Also see Exo 23:20,21; Hos 12:3,5;

So why if Jesus has been given a position higher than the angels can he not be referred to as LORD?

Could Jesus have been given this title before his ascension? While in the flesh under trial? No Thomas understood the Godhead now dwelt in him being able to see all things and gear all things.

Joh 10:32 Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you going to stone me?”
Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.”

Ah BUT the jews were wrong he wasnt saying that he was GOD!!! READ verse 36 WHAT DID HE SAY?

Joh 10:34 Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’?
Joh 10:35 If he called them gods to whom the word of God came–and Scripture cannot be broken–
Joh 10:36 do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?

Ironically you are doing exactly what the pharisees did to Jesus saying he is God when he is not. Why don’t you listen to Jesus? He is the Son of God who perfectly manifested His Father character.

BUT will you heed the message Jesus goes on to expound???

Joh 10:37 If I am not doing the works of my Father, then do not believe me;

Joh 10:38 but if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the **Father is in me and I am in the Father."

Jesus is not saying the JESUS is God and God is Jesus…he is saying that our thinking and purpose is one in Spirit and in Truth. God works in me and I in him.****

 

[benidict]

Are we not commanded to Baptize in the NAME of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit? If what our Arian friends are saying is correct, then shouldnt we be commanded to Baptize in the NAMES of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit? As far as Mary goes, she is typified in the O.T. as the Ark of the Covenant. The ark contained the staff of Aarron the Manna, And the tablets of the law. Who did Mary carry in Her womb. Our High Priest, Our Bread from Heaven, and the One Who gave the Law to Moses. She gave birth to Emmanuel, which if I am not mistaken means…GOD WITH US. When Jesus Stated I AM, He was stating He was the One who spoke to Moses from the burning bush. He was the one that came down in the pillar to speak face to face with Moses in the tabernacle. Our Arian friends here deny that It was God the Son born to Mary, and in doing so, they not only deny the New Testament, they Deny the prophecies written about both, in the Old. I can always provide more scriptural proofs. Peace

 

[benidict]

SKMORRISON-We press on towards truth.
ME- Really?
SKMORRISON-Jesus is not saying the JESUS is God and God is Jesus…he is saying that our thinking and purpose is one in Spirit and in Truth. God works in me and I in him.
ME- Exactly what the Jehovahs Witnesses conclude. So is the Holy Spirit an impersonal force SK? :coffeeread:

 

[skmorrison6]

Contending earnestly for the faith results in funny discrediting little pictures???

Your conclusions appear to echo Pauls thoughts while in Rome:

Act 28:22 But we desire to hear of thee what thou thinkest: for as concerning this sect, we know that every where it is spoken against.

Yes in the beginning it was only a **small sect **who held truth, Paul being chosen apostle to take truth to the Gentiles. What an example of persistence and perseverance for truth regardless the consequence.

And such spiritual maturity from one (Paul) who was a Pharisee of the Pharisees (see Phil 3:5) but eventually was shown the light of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

I will let this rest on you gently.

SM

 

[benidict]

Contending earnestly for the faith results in funny discrediting little pictures???

Your conclusions appear to echo Pauls thoughts while in Rome:

Act 28:22 But we desire to hear of thee what thou thinkest: for as concerning this sect, we know that every where it is spoken against.

Yes in the beginning it was only a **small sect **who held truth, Paul being chosen apostle to take truth to the Gentiles. What an example of persistence and perseverance for truth regardless the consequence.

And such spiritual maturity from one (Paul) who was a Pharisee of the Pharisees (see Phil 3:5) but eventually was shown the light of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

I will let this rest on you gently.

SM

Answer the question my friend. Is the Holy Spirit an impersonal force according to your belief system. Yes we have the little pictures, and yes I will use them. If not, I would probably not be as nice.

 

[ClamDigger]

Hi Clamdigger & Adrift
We press on towards truth.
Why did Thomas call Jesus “My Lord and My God” in John 20.28?
Back ground is important here wouldn’t you say?
If you go to (Luk_24:39,40). The point is Thomas needed to see Jesus Christ before he would believe and had previously stated he would need to place his hands in his side to know it was Jesus.
(Joh 20:26) Eight days later, his disciples were inside again, and Thomas was with them. Although the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you.”
This must have really confronted Thomas, as Jesus was not around, so he thought, when speaking his doubting words, now Jesus goes right to the heart of the matter by repeating word for word what Thomas had spoken.
I placed Thomas statement below for your convenience:
Joh 20:24 Now Thomas, one of the Twelve, called the Twin, was not with them when Jesus came.
Joh 20:25 So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord.” But he said to them, **“Unless I see in his hands the mark of the nails, and place my finger into the mark of the nails, and place my hand into his side, I will never believe.”/**B]
(Joh 20:27) Then he (Jesus) said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side. Do not disbelieve, but believe.”
(Joh 20:28) Thomas answered him, **“My Lord and my God!”
**(Joh 20:29) Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me (Jesus)? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
MY GOD:
Here are some accounts angels in scripture being referred to as God. ***Do you know one who acts on His behalf may be called “God”? ***

No, because that is not true. When I do something good, like give to charity, I am acting on behalf of God. Does that mean I should be called God? Of course not! That is not in the scriptures! This is idolatry!

quote=skmorrison6;7622023 God being spoken of as angels: Gen 16:13; 18:13;
Gen 16:13 So she (Hagar) called the name of the LORD who spoke to her, **“You are a God of seeing,” **

for she said, “Truly here I have seen him who looks after me.”
Angel speaking to Abraham…
Gen 18:13 The LORD said to Abraham, "Why did Sarah laugh and say, ‘Shall I indeed bear a child, now that I am old?’
Abraham called the angels LORD - YAHWEH = GOD. But are the angels actually God? NO you know they are not…but do they do his work? Yes. Do they represent Him and do the angels manifest His character and purpose, of course…how much more the Son.

The “Angels” were an apparition of the three members of the Divine Trinity! I can’t believe you weren’t ever told that. This must be what happens when one goes against Apostolic injunction and reads the Bible alone (Acts 8.30-31).

Also see Exo 23:20,21;

The angel in this passage is stated by God to have God’s name in him. It does not, however, say that the angel IS God. All angels have God’s name in them. Michael (Who is like unto God), Gabriel (Strength of God), Raphael (God Heals), Uriel (God is Light), etc. Moving on…

Hos 12:3,5;

If one fights the army of another, do they not fight that person indirectly? The angels are the army of God. By fighting against the angel, Jacob was indirectly fighting against God. That is all this is saying.

So why if Jesus has been given a position higher than the angels can he not be referred to as LORD?

He WAS one of those “Angels” that appeared to Abraham just as JEHOVAH (God the Father) was one of those “Angels” (Genesis 18.13)!

Could Jesus have been given this title before his ascension? While in the flesh under trial? No Thomas understood the Godhead now dwelt in him being able to see all things and gear all things.

The Godhead dwelt in him from eternity as is SO COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY OBVIOUS TO ANYONE WITH A BRAIN from John 1.1!

Joh 10:32 Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you going to stone me?”
Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.”
Ah BUT the jews were wrong he wasnt saying that he was GOD!!! READ verse 36 WHAT DID HE SAY?
Joh 10:34 Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’?
Joh 10:35 If he called them gods to whom the word of God came–and Scripture cannot be broken–
Joh 10:36 do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?

Firstly, he did not say, “I’m not God!” to the Jews.
Secondly, Jesus was referencing Psalm 82.6 when he said this. In Psalm 82.6, the word translated as “gods” is “elohim”, plural of “eloah”. “Eloah” in Hebrew, while it has been applied to deities, merely means “judge”. He was merely defending his use of the term to the Jews so that they would not stone him unjustly, as what he said was in their scriptures.
[/quote]

 

[ClamDigger]

Ironically you are doing exactly what the pharisees did to Jesus saying he is God when he is not. Why don’t you listen to Jesus? He is the Son of God who perfectly manifested His Father character.

Why do YOU not listen to Jesus when he says, “I and my Father are One” (John 10.30) and “Before Abraham was made, I AM” (John 8.58)?

BUT will you heed the message Jesus goes on to expound???
Joh 10:37 If I am not doing the works of my Father, then do not believe me;
Joh 10:38 but if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the **Father is in me and I am in the Father."
Jesus is not saying the JESUS is God and God is Jesus…he is saying that our thinking and purpose is one in Spirit and in Truth. God works in me and I in him. **
Jesus is also NOT saying he is NOT God! He is merely saying that GOD THE FATHER works through him, GOD THE SON!

 

[ClamDigger]

Are we not commanded to Baptize in the NAME of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit? If what our Arian friends are saying is correct, then shouldnt we be commanded to Baptize in the NAMES of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit?

Exactly!

As far as Mary goes, she is typified in the O.T. as the Ark of the Covenant. The ark contained the staff of Aarron the Manna, And the tablets of the law. Who did Mary carry in Her womb. Our High Priest, Our Bread from Heaven, and the One Who gave the Law to Moses.

Yes! Our Lady is the greater Ark of the Covenant! Of course, these people do not realize that because they have blinded themselves to the truth due to their arrogance in believing that anyone with a Bible can now just interpret it however they want to.

She gave birth to Emmanuel, which if I am not mistaken means…GOD WITH US.

Oh, but don’t you know? Apparently if you act in God’s name, you now BECOME God.
At least, that’s what I’ve been told on this thread???

When Jesus Stated I AM, He was stating He was the One who spoke to Moses from the burning bush. He was the one that came down in the pillar to speak face to face with Moses in the tabernacle. Our Arian friends here deny that It was God the Son born to Mary, and in doing so, they not only deny the New Testament, they Deny the prophecies written about both, in the Old. I can always provide more scriptural proofs. Peace

Because they actually just deny the Bible while still masquerading under the name “Christian”! SK even said that we should REMOVE words from the Gospels in order to “enhance” their meaning!

 

[Dokimas]

SK even said that we should REMOVE words from the Gospels in order to “enhance” their meaning!

Actually I believe what was being referrenced was the words in italics. These words, in most English translations I’m aware of, aren’t in the original manuscripts and are added to help with understanding. Sometimes they could be wrong or misleading.

 

[Dokimas]

Hi Clamdigger & Adrift

We press on towards truth.

Why did Thomas call Jesus “My Lord and My God” in John 20.28?

Back ground is important here wouldn’t you say?

If you go to (Luk_24:39,40). The point is Thomas needed to see Jesus Christ before he would believe and had previously stated he would need to place his hands in his side to know it was Jesus.

(Joh 20:26) Eight days later, his disciples were inside again, and Thomas was with them. Although the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you.”

This must have really confronted Thomas, as Jesus was not around, so he thought, when speaking his doubting words, now Jesus goes right to the heart of the matter by repeating word for word what Thomas had spoken.

I placed Thomas statement below for your convenience:

Joh 20:24 Now Thomas, one of the Twelve, called the Twin, was not with them when Jesus came.

Joh 20:25 So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord.” But he said to them, **“Unless I see in his hands the mark of the nails, and place my finger into the mark of the nails, and place my hand into his side, I will never believe.”/**B]

(Joh 20:27) Then he (Jesus) said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side. Do not disbelieve, but believe.”

(Joh 20:28) Thomas answered him, **“My Lord and my God!”

**(Joh 20:29) Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me (Jesus)? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

MY GOD:

Here are some accounts angels in scripture being referred to as God. Do you know one who acts on His behalf may be called “God”?

(a) God being spoken of as angels: Gen 16:13; 18:13;

Gen 16:13 So she (Hagar) called the name of the LORD who spoke to her, **“You are a God of seeing,” **for she said, “Truly here I have seen him who looks after me.”

Angel speaking to Abraham…

Gen 18:13 The LORD said to Abraham, "Why did Sarah laugh and say, ‘Shall I indeed bear a child, now that I am old?’

Abraham called the angels LORD - YAHWEH = GOD. But are the angels actually God? NO you know they are not…but do they do his work? Yes. Do they represent Him and do the angels manifest His character and purpose, of course…how much more the Son.

Also see Exo 23:20,21; Hos 12:3,5;

So why if Jesus has been given a position higher than the angels can he not be referred to as LORD?

Could Jesus have been given this title before his ascension? While in the flesh under trial? No Thomas understood the Godhead now dwelt in him being able to see all things and gear all things.

Joh 10:32 Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you going to stone me?”
Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.”

Ah BUT the jews were wrong he wasnt saying that he was GOD!!! READ verse 36 WHAT DID HE SAY?

Joh 10:34 Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’?
Joh 10:35 If he called them gods to whom the word of God came–and Scripture cannot be broken–
Joh 10:36 do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?

Ironically you are doing exactly what the pharisees did to Jesus saying he is God when he is not. Why don’t you listen to Jesus? He is the Son of God who perfectly manifested His Father character.

BUT will you heed the message Jesus goes on to expound???

Joh 10:37 If I am not doing the works of my Father, then do not believe me;

Joh 10:38 but if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the **Father is in me and I am in the Father."

Jesus is not saying the JESUS is God and God is Jesus…he is saying that our thinking and purpose is one in Spirit and in Truth. God works in me and I in him.**

Angels don’t allow anyone to worship them; men should not either. Why did Jesus allow people to worship Him?

I would have been wrong as a Jew for Thomas to blurt out ‘My Lord and my God’ as a surprised saying. Moses taught not to take the Lord’s name in vain. Thomas was acknowledging Jesus as God.

The thing about the pharasees was they they knew Jesus claimed to be God (“Before Abraham was, I AM”) and that’s why they wanted Him dead (for blaspheme). They didn’t think He was God or they wouldn’t have treated Him so. They knew not to tempt the Lord their God.

BTW, how many Saviors are there, specifically, Saviors of men’s souls?

 

[benidict]

Angels don’t allow anyone to worship them; men should not either. Why did Jesus allow people to worship Him?

I would have been wrong as a Jew for Thomas to blurt out ‘My Lord and my God’ as a surprised saying. Moses taught not to take the Lord’s name in vain. Thomas was acknowledging Jesus as God.

The thing about the pharasees was they they knew Jesus claimed to be God (“Before Abraham was, I AM”) and that’s why they wanted Him dead (for blaspheme). They didn’t think He was God or they wouldn’t have treated Him so. They knew not to tempt the Lord their God.

BTW, how many Saviors are there, specifically, Saviors of men’s souls?

Excellet point my dear Brother! Take note my Arian friends. this is why I can call Dokimas a fellow laborer and a Brother. we may disagree on some things, but we KNOW who Christ is, and claims to be, and who the Bible claims him to be. Nicely done Dokmas! Peace and prosperity to you and yours.

 

[benidict]

May we also point out, that the Jewish people KNOW exactly what Christianity has taught about Jesus from our inception? They KNOW we have always taught His Deity. They know we have always claimed Him as God the Son. They KNOW our history, sometimes better then we do, as is evidenced by the Rabbinic sages, May God bless them. How then can someone come and state that these who are STILL Gods Chosen people do not understand what we as a Church have been saying? This has been the cause of our seperation from our Jewish Bretheren for 2 millinea. May we at some point Reunite under one banner. Peace
The teachings by the Arians do not only insult the Church, they are at their root…Anti Semetic as well. on a subtle level. I believe the Chritadelphia movement, claims that they have replaced Gods Chosen people, do they not? I could be wrong, I will have to refresh myself as to their stand on this.

 

[benidict]

Also remember. The Bible did not always have chapter and verse. when John had his vision of the ark in the book of Revelation, Who or What did he see standing in Gods Temple in Heaven??It is clear, A Woman clothed in the sun, with the moon under her feet, and a crown of 12 stars on Her head. MARY after she was crowned Queen of Heaven.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Contending earnestly for the faith
SM

Consider this carefully…

John 3:18

Douay-Rheims Bible
He that believeth in him is not judged. But he that doth not believe, is already judged: because he believeth not in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

All who do not believe, whether the gospel has come to them or not. All people by nature are condemned already - By conscience, by law, and in the judgment of God. God disapproves of their character, and this feeling of disapprobation, and the expression of it, is the condemnation. There is no condemnation so terrible as this - that God disapproves our conduct, and that he will express his disapprobation. He will judge according to truth, and woe to that man whose conduct God cannot approve.

"All people are by nature condemned. There is but “one way” of being delivered from this state, and that is by believing in Jesus Christ who is the Son of God. They who do not believe or remain in that state are condemned, for they have not embraced the only way in which they can be freed from it, which is Jesus Christ.

But he that believeth not - When the Gospel is preached to him, and the way of salvation made plain.

Is condemned already - Continues under the condemnation which Divine justice has passed upon all sinners; and has this superadded, He hath not believed on the name of the only begotten Son of God, Jesus Christ, and therefore is guilty of the grossest insult to the Divine majesty, in neglecting, slighting, and despising the salvation which the infinite mercy of God had provided for him.

“From the beginning”; man remains under the sentence of condemnation passed on Adam, upon him; the law accuses him, and pronounces him guilty before God; he is under the curse of it, and it is a ministration of condemnation and death to him; nor has he any thing to secure him from its charge, curse, and condemnation: this must be understood of one that is a final unbeliever, or that lives, and dies, in a state of impenitence, and unbelief: because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God; whom God has sent to be the Saviour of lost sinners, and to deliver them from wrath to come; and there is no other name but his, whereby men can be saved; so that such that do not believe in him, must be damned.

Jesus Christ is every way able to reveal the will of God to us; for he came down from heaven, and yet is in heaven. We have here a notice of Christ’s two distinct natures in one person.

Lift up the eyes of your faith to Christ the crucified and be saved. The wrath of God now fastens upon them; and their own hearts condemn them. There is also a condemnation grounded on their former guilt; they are open to the law for all their sins; because they are not by faith interested in the gospel pardon. Unbelief is a sin against the remedy. It springs from the enmity of the heart of man to God, from love of sin in some form. Read also the doom of those that would not know Christ. Sinful works are works of darkness. The wicked world keep as far from this light as they can, lest their deeds should be reproved. Christ is hated, because sin is loved. If they had not hated saving knowledge, they would not sit down contentedly in condemning ignorance.

John 14:6-11

6-Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

10-Do you not believe, that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I speak to you, I speak not of myself. But the Father who abideth in me, he doth the works.

11-Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me.

Your scripture interpretation is damaging and leads followers of Jesus Christ astray. Its pure heretical teaching and no Christians who actually follow Christianity subscribe to this blasphemy.

It would be the sincere hope of myself, and more than likely most here, that you re-consider your position and make another honest effort to read the Bible with an open mind.

Sin’s against the HS are not forgiven. What you seem to derive pleasure from on some level is in essense self-destructive behavior. Your killing yourself and somehow would like others join your suicidal tendancy. I would walk away from this. it is fatal to your soul.

My Prays are with you, Gary

 

[benidict]

I can gladly say im wrong about this movement being a replacement for Israel. their website is interesting. christadelphia.org/belief.htm

 

[GaryTaylor]

Also remember. The Bible did not always have chapter and verse. when John had his vision of the ark in the book of Revelation, Who or What did he see standing in Gods Temple in Heaven??It is clear, A Woman clothed in the sun, with the moon under her feet, and a crown of 12 stars on Her head. MARY after she was crowned Queen of Heaven.

I believe we discussed this systematic attack on Christianity months back. How true it is. In the case here. Its simply not enough to attack Mary, but the entire path to salvation?

The very foundation, “In the Beginning” is attacked. Basically our friends here are starting with Adam and resolving at your above verse. Thus the entire context of scripture placed in contempt.

God Bless, Gary

 

[StTommyMore]

Why don’t people understand that the Sermon on the Mount was essentially a claim of divinity by Jesus? Jesus corrected the Law of Moses. According to the Jews the only being above Moses is God. So when Jesus said “you have heard…but I say…” he was claiming to be above Moses, and therefore, God.

 

[benidict]

Christadelphianism has correctly taught that the trinitarian understanding of the Holy Spirit as a ‘person’ in the Godhead has no basis in the New Testament or the beliefs of the earliest Christians. Christadelphian theology understands the Holy Spirit to be one with God, and not as a distinct person within the Godhead (The Holy Spirit is “His invisible power or energy breathed forth from His presence, and of like nature with His Glorious Person … God and His Spirit cannot be separated. They are both one. The sun and the light that comes from the sun are both one. So God, and the Spirit that comes from God, are both one. God is the centre and glorious substantial form of the Spirit that fills heaven and earth.” The Christadelphian Instructor questions 17 and 18).christadelphian.blogspot.com/2008/07/christadelphian-swot-analysis-4-holy.html
And we also find out, they deny the Person of the Holy Spirit. Interesting. I would say they have more in common with the Jehovahs witnesses than any other group. Im still looking into them, but I really cant see any difference between the two, other than their founders. They both also believe in soul sleep.
Just a quick question then. How on earth do you grieve an IMPERSONAL FORCE?

 

[GaryTaylor]

Why don’t people understand that the Sermon on the Mount was essentially a claim of divinity by Jesus? Jesus corrected the Law of Moses. According to the Jews the only being above Moses is God. So when Jesus said “you have heard…but I say…” he was claiming to be above Moses, and therefore, God.

Thats 100% correct and a crucial part of scripture which cannot be emphasised enough.

Even the “Rabbi’s” present were astounded by the understanding of Scripture of Jesus. When Christ placed that “I” as you correctly caught above and spoke on, this is where the Jews actually became frightened. That “is” their point on contention due to their understanding of how the Messiah would come. Judaism contends the Savior would not be God, nor could not be God according to Scripture. At the Sermon on the Mount Jesus clearly makes the “I” connection to He being God.

Nonetheless the reality of Christ is alive in scripture, and so it is today.

Benedict XVI “Jesus of Nazareth” provide’s an in-depth study of the Sermon on the Mount. And this is one of the main area’s that Catholics and Judaism discuss is bridging the faiths.

God Bless, Gary