If you do Not believe that Blessed Mary is the Mother of God, than who do you believe Jesus Christ is?

[benidict]

It is interesting that on this thread, 2 of our Teachings are being attacked. the Belief that Mary is the Mother of God, and the very Teaching that seperates Christians from non Christians. The Holy Trinity. These 2 doctrines really do go hand in hand. I would implore all my Seperated Bretheren in the Protestant realm to really take a closer look at the Churches teaching on both these issues. Including our Marian Dogma. Even if we cannot come to an agreement on all the Marian Dogmas, surely we must see that Mary Mother of God, and the Doctrine of the Trinity walk hand in hand. Peace and prayers and Gods blessing on All us who hold to Jesus, God the Son.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Christadelphianism has correctly taught that the trinitarian understanding of the Holy Spirit as a ‘person’ in the Godhead has no basis in the New Testament or the beliefs of the earliest Christians. Christadelphian theology understands the Holy Spirit to be one with God, and not as a distinct person within the Godhead (The Holy Spirit is “His invisible power or energy breathed forth from His presence, and of like nature with His Glorious Person … God and His Spirit cannot be separated. They are both one. The sun and the light that comes from the sun are both one. So God, and the Spirit that comes from God, are both one. God is the centre and glorious substantial form of the Spirit that fills heaven and earth.” The Christadelphian Instructor questions 17 and 18).christadelphian.blogspot.com/2008/07/christadelphian-swot-analysis-4-holy.html
And we also find out, they deny the Person of the Holy Spirit. Interesting. I would say they have more in common with the Jehovahs witnesses than any other group. Im still looking into them, but I really cant see any difference between the two, other than their founders. They both also believe in soul sleep.
Just a quick question then. How on earth do you grieve an IMPERSONAL FORCE?

I read through your link, which btw is the best link I’ve seen on this to date. One of our Catholic brothers here sent me a link the other day which gave me a heads-up to what this following actually believed. Just recently I heard of it. Soon as the Christ is not God typing hit the screen, I knew whatever it was, it was bad.

 

[benidict]

I read through your link, which btw is the best link I’ve seen on this to date. One of our Catholic brothers here sent me a link the other day which gave me a heads-up to what this following actually believed. Just recently I heard of it. Soon as the Christ is not God typing hit the screen, I knew whatever it was, it was bad.

I vaugely remember studying this Group in High School, when I was studying Sects and Cults. I was more concerned with the big 3 at this time though. The Adventist, the Mormons, and the JWs. So I must admit, I kind of glossed over them. No time like the present to relearn though… Its been almost 25 years though.

 

[PRmerger]

It is interesting that on this thread, 2 of our Teachings are being attacked. the Belief that Mary is the Mother of God, and the very Teaching that seperates Christians from non Christians. The Holy Trinity. These 2 doctrines really do go hand in hand.

Exactly.

At least the Christadelphians are consistent–they deny that Jesus is God, therefore it’s logical to deny that Mary is the Mother of God.

It does shed some light, though, on the radical inconsistency of non-Catholic Christians who proclaim Jesus is God, yet deny Mary is the Mother of God.

The Christadelphian paradigm should be a clarion call to Protestants: see what happens when you deny Mary is the mother of God? You must then deny that Christ is God as well.

 

[benidict]

Exactly.

At least the Christadelphians are consistent–they deny that Jesus is God, therefore it’s logical to deny that Mary is the Mother of God.

It does shed some light, though, on the radical inconsistency of non-Catholic Christians who proclaim Jesus is God, yet deny Mary is the Mother of God.

The Christadelphian paradigm should be a clarion call to Protestants: see what happens when you deny Mary is the mother of God? You must then deny that Christ is God as well.

Yes! Exactly! This is a point I think we raised either early on in this thread, or on another. One thing I will applaud the Christadelphians for though, is their honesty. They are not hiding who or what they are, unlike other groups, such as the Adventist. I will tip my hat to them for this at least. :tiphat: Peace to you my friend.

 

[pablope]

Christadelphianism has correctly taught that the trinitarian understanding of the Holy Spirit as a ‘person’ in the Godhead has no basis id glorious substantial form of the Spirit that fills heaven and earth." The Christadelphian Instructor questions 17 and 18).christadelphian.blogspot.com/2008/07/christadelphian-swot-analysis-4-holy.html
And we also find out, they deny the Person of the Holy Spirit. Interesting. I would say they have more in common with the Jehovahs witnesses than any other group. Im still looking into them, but I really cant see any difference between the two, other than their founders. They both also believe in soul sleep.
Just a quick question then. How on earth do you grieve an IMPERSONAL FORCE?

Hi, Ben…

I glanced at the link…and this kind of interested me…the bolded part…how true it is…

THREATS - there are definite signs that Christadelphians are losing members to churches and denominations which have a greater emphasis on the operation of the Holy Spirit in the Christian life. Perhaps this is because of a void in Christadelphian teaching and practice. It has been said that as a body without breath is dead, so a church without the Spirit of God is spiritually dead. This maxim would explain why those who leave Christadelphianism often complain of the lifelessness, the stifling rigidity, the dullness and morbid legalism of parts of the Christadelphian community. If this threat is not addressed Christadelphians are likely to continue losing members.

 

[skmorrison6]

Actually I believe what was being referrenced was the words in italics. These words, in most English translations I’m aware of, aren’t in the original manuscripts and are added to help with understanding. Sometimes they could be wrong or misleading.

Thank you for your understanding and balanced approach to this thread. It appears others a quick to send the fiery darts without reading slowly what is being said.

I hope to consider your thoughts this evening.

SM

 

[adrift]

Thank you for your understanding and balanced approach to this thread. It appears others a quick to send the fiery darts without reading slowly what is being said.

I hope to consider your thoughts this evening.

SM

Thank you for your explanation it has been interesting. Other have answered you so I don’t see repeating.

I asked you who you thought the father of Jesus is?

 

[skmorrison6]

Praise to God for a Living Hope explained:

1 Peter 1:3 Praise be to the God (Creator = beginning) and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his (God’s) great mercy he (God) has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ (His Son) from the dead, 4 and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, 5 who through faith are shielded by God’s (Not Christ) power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

When is this revelaing of God power to be given? See answer in RED

6 In all this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials. 7 These have come so that the proven genuineness of your faith—of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire—may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed. 8 Though you have not seen him, you love him (Jesus); and even though you do not see him (Jesus) now, you believe in him (Jesus) and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy, 9 for you are receiving the end result of your faith, the salvation of your souls (i.e living breathing creature, body, not imortal soul - how can something which is immortal be saved - this is foolishness and unscriptual?

This is the Gospel and its very clear…no confusion of who God is, or who Jesus is…

Jesus has a Creator and Father.

SM

 

[Nicea325]

Praise to God for a Living Hope explained:

1 Peter 1:3 Praise be to the God (Creator = beginning) and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his (God’s) great mercy he (God) has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ (His Son) from the dead, 4 and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, 5 who through faith are shielded by God’s (Not Christ) power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

When is this revelaing of God power to be given? See answer in RED

6 In all this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials. 7 These have come so that the proven genuineness of your faith—of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire—may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed. 8 Though you have not seen him, you love him (Jesus); and even though you do not see him (Jesus) now, you believe in him (Jesus) and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy, 9 for you are receiving the end result of your faith, the salvation of your souls (i.e living breathing creature, body, not imortal soul - how can something which is immortal be saved - this is foolishness and unscriptual?

This is the Gospel and its very clear…no confusion of who God is, or who Jesus is…

Jesus has a Creator and Father.

SM

Jesus has a Creator? Then explain the passages where people clearly worshiped Jesus? Furthermore,if Jesus is** only a creature**,then how can His death on the cross redeem anyone and save?

 

[benidict]

Praise to God for a Living Hope explained:

1 Peter 1:3 Praise be to the God (Creator = beginning) and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his (God’s) great mercy he (God) has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ (His Son) from the dead, 4 and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, 5 who through faith are shielded by God’s (Not Christ) power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

When is this revelaing of God power to be given? See answer in RED

6 In all this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials. 7 These have come so that the proven genuineness of your faith—of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire—may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed. 8 Though you have not seen him, you love him (Jesus); and even though you do not see him (Jesus) now, you believe in him (Jesus) and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy, 9 for you are receiving the end result of your faith, the salvation of your souls (i.e living breathing creature, body, not imortal soul - how can something which is immortal be saved - this is foolishness and unscriptual?

This is the Gospel and its very clear…no confusion of who God is, or who Jesus is…

Jesus has a Creator and Father.

SM

Feel free to check out my thread. IS SOUL SLEEP BIBLICAL?

 

[benidict]

Hi, Ben…

I glanced at the link…and this kind of interested me…the bolded part…how true it is…

Hi Pablope. I would think on the whole, they are a smaller organization than their closest cousins, the Adventist and Jehovahs Witnesses. This would explain why they flew under my radar for a quarter century… Peace

 

[skmorrison6]

So I assume from your repsonce you dont believe Jesus has a God i.e Creator?

SM

 

[StTommyMore]

So I assume from your repsonce you dont believe Jesus has a God i.e Creator?

SM

From the Nicene-Constantioplean Creed:

“Begotten not made, one in being with the Father”

 

[benidict]

Thank you for your understanding and balanced approach to this thread. It appears others a quick to send the fiery darts without reading slowly what is being said.

I hope to consider your thoughts this evening.

SM

Good morning SK. I would be very interested in your organizations explanation about the Holy Spirit. I understand they believe He is an impersonal force. So The question is, How do you grieve an impersonal force? We are told by the apostle Paul not to grieve the Holy Spirit. How is this possible? I cannot grieve the wind that blows in my face periodically. I cannot grieve the natural atmosphere, such as the very air I breath. If in fact the Holy Spirit is no more personal than These two phenomena, then how can we grieve Him?

 

[benidict]

So I assume from your repsonce you dont believe Jesus has a God i.e Creator?

SM

The Lord said to my Lord. Sit here until I make your enemies a footstool…Paraphrased of course. But the point is, Christadelphia tries to take God and seperate Him. Or how about this, I am in the Father, and He is in Me. This cannot happen unless we are talking about a Being that is Mystically intertwined and are in reality one. We can look at the Star of David. There are many meanings to this very sacred symbol. It actually proclaims some very interesting teachings about the nature of God. Interested?

 

[skmorrison6]

Benedict

If it leads to speaking in triangles, not interested - I have explored at lenght most of the passages concerning the teaching of the trinity, imortal soulism, heaven and hell going etc etc.

I have spent 15 years reseaching and praying over the scriptures only to discover how simple the nature of Christ is to those who approach the scriptures with eyes that are willing to see, and ears that are willing to hear.

To be honest its just one lie built on another. I am more concerned with actual Bible exposition. Studying the Holy Scriptures has been a daily occurence of mine for over 15 years. I have studying extensivly the Roman Empire and its history and the develement of the Holy Roman Church throughout all its stages. I am now gleaning a better understanding of how the church members defend thier beliefs.

After we are finished here I would like to explore your post on the immortal soulism.

SM

 

[PRmerger]

I have spent 15 years reseaching and praying over the scriptures only to discover how simple the nature of Christ is to those who approach the scriptures with eyes that are willing to see, and ears that are willing to hear.

This to be commended, of course.

Yet your approach to Scripture contradicts 2000 years of the kerygma, the deposit of faith given once, for all, to the saints.

 

[benidict]

Benedict

If it leads to speaking in triangles, not interested - I have explored at lenght most of the passages concerning the teaching of the trinity, imortal soulism, heaven and hell going etc etc.

I have spent 15 years reseaching and praying over the scriptures only to discover how simple the nature of Christ is to those who approach the scriptures with eyes that are willing to see, and ears that are willing to hear.

To be honest its just one lie built on another. I am more concerned with actual Bible exposition. Studying the Holy Scriptures has been a daily occurence of mine for over 15 years. I have studying extensivly the Roman Empire and its history and the develement of the Holy Roman Church throughout all its stages. I am now gleaning a better understanding of how the church members defend thier beliefs.

After we are finished here I would like to explore your post on the immortal soulism.

SM

Fair enough. We will not explore the sacred geometry found in Judaism. However, can you explain your movements teachings that the Holy Spirit is an impersonal force, and How one can grieve something that has no personality? Peace

 

[ClamDigger]

Praise to God for a Living Hope explained:
1 Peter 1:3 Praise be to the God (Creator = beginning) and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his (God’s) great mercy he (God) has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ (His Son) from the dead, 4 and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, 5 who through faith are shielded by God’s (Not Christ) power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

You are so outrageous. Since when did the word “God of Christ” become synonymous with “Creator of Christ”? Don’t you think Peter would have been a bit more clear and called him the “ktiste” (creator) of Christ, rather than the “Theou” (God) of Christ if that’s what he inteded us to glean from this passage? The Greeks had gods that they recognized that were not regarded as their creators (Aphrodite, Artemis, Dionysus, etc…), yet they still worshiped them. Similarly, this statement does not mean that God the Father created Christ, merely that he is worshiped by Christ.

When is this revelaing of God power to be given? See answer in RED
6 In all this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials. 7 These have come so that the proven genuineness of your faith—of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire—may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed. 8 Though you have not seen him, you love him (Jesus); and even though you do not see him (Jesus) now, you believe in him (Jesus) and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy, 9 for you are receiving the end result of your faith, the salvation of your souls (i.e living breathing creature, body, not imortal soul - how can something which is immortal be saved - this is foolishness and unscriptual?

How does Christ being revealed equal Christ being created? Revelation does not equal creation. I can reveal a piece of sixteenth century artwork at an art exhibit. That does not mean that I made it or that it somehow just magically came into existence when I revealed it.

This is the Gospel and its very clear…no confusion of who God is, or who Jesus is…

Yep. John 1.1… God is Jesus and Jesus is God!

Jesus has a Creator and Father.

Father, not creator. ALL things were created through Christ. How could ALL things be created by Christ if Christ was created?