Iglesia ni Cristo members.. lets help them

[read_me]

i can personally attest that i have 3 very close friends who were non INC members and were forced to convert just so they can marry the person they fell in love with

i am a witness and i can say that 4square’s story is true

ok. lets say that it is true. then? like what i said it is from the bible that dont marry unbelievers to the believers! so, youre 3 “very close” friends of yours should be converted to INC because it is a commandment from the bible and not a man made. just think of this, (i heard this with my highschool teacher) how can a couple will survive, even a family if each has diff. religions or beliefs? here in the phil. everyday in the news you will noticed about “husband kill his wife” and others, why? because they cannot understand each other even in a simple argument, it can go to a serious problem to them. and most of the celebrities you know that they are making divorce. and those people having same beliefs in life… How if each of the member of the family have diff. views in one thing?

for example. you were a catholic and you love eating pork and everthing and you have strong faith and practicing your traditions as well, and your wife is a muslim that everybody knows that does not want pork and etc. how can you two survive in that relationship? that one’s tradition for exam. contradicts the other? what will be the result of this? what do you think? do you think they will have a brighter future because of that, huh?

 

[read_me]

technically you are right. members are strongly discouraged to the the bible itself, but read the Pasugo which is somewhat like a magazine or digest where the ministers already put their own twist to bible passages. so technically reading the Pasugo you get to read bible passages, but you don’t get to read the bible itself. so from a perspective you can say that members do get to read the bible, but not as the bible itself. because the ministers are afriad that if the people get to read the whole chapter instead of a single verse, they’ll understand whats in the Scripture better and know that the minister’s translation is false

ok. you are just continuing your myths about the INC. (haha) well, if that’s how catholics thinks to the INC. what can i do? to lie on the doctrines of the INC so that many will have negative impression to the INC… but i will repeat, the INC does not DISCOURAGE members to read the bible, not like other religions does. That because of reading the bible, they are having their own interpretation and that is wrong. In the bible, you will see that it has some passages like, “how can they preach unless they are sent?” something like that and many others. It is only god’s selected people will have the authority to preach and not everyone. and that’s why it is said that make a ministry, as the bible said.

 

[M_catholic]

ok. lets say that it is true. then? like what i said it is from the bible that dont marry unbelievers to the believers! so, youre 3 “very close” friends of yours should be converted to INC because it is a commandment from the bible and not a man made. just think of this, (i heard this with my highschool teacher) how can a couple will survive, even a family if each has diff. religions or beliefs? here in the phil. everyday in the news you will noticed about “husband kill his wife” and others, why? because they cannot understand each other even in a simple argument, it can go to a serious problem to them. and most of the celebrities you know that they are making divorce. and those people having same beliefs in life… How if each of the member of the family have diff. views in one thing?

for example. you were a catholic and you love eating pork and everthing and you have strong faith and practicing your traditions as well, and your wife is a muslim that everybody knows that does not want pork and etc. how can you two survive in that relationship? that one’s tradition for exam. contradicts the other? what will be the result of this? what do you think? do you think they will have a brighter future because of that, huh?

and there are many couples in this situation that had a wonderful life living together. and I know because I have friends whose parents are of diff. religion. they live a normal and ordinary family life. Marriage is about faith, respect and love through each other.

if you are still in doubt, why don’t you go and ask if you know married people of diff religion and get your answer for that.

or better yet, try to look the example of Mr. Adel Tamano a muslim but married to a christian. (I hope you know Mr. Tamano) He is a lawyer in the phil. Somewhat famous.

 

[read_me]

The unity of the True Church has been there for thousand years even before Felix Manalo, the self proclaimed “church restorer” came into the scene in the Philippines. Your bloc voting is a doctrine that you members blindly follow. What’s so funny is that you question the authority of the Pope in matters of faith and morals but you raise Felix Manalo and his clan into the status of being “little popes”, i bet, after Erano, it will be another Manalo who will lead this corporation sole registered in the Philippines.

Marks of a True Church?
One
Holy
Catholic
Apostolic.

You may be united as one (which most sects have) but you dont have the rest
Holy - tell me, have you produced saintly people from Iglesia ni Cristo like Mother Teresa of Calcutta who went to India and help the poorest of the poor regardless of their creed or race? NONE

Catholic - Is your church, universal? Nope. The truth is that, although you are present in more than 150 countries (perhaps) but most of those church attendance are Fililpino OFW and migrant workers. If there are foreigners, that’s because they’re married to Filipinos.

Apotolic - Your cult has no apostolic succession to claim. Simply it all started from Felix Manalo, a baptized Catholic (never baptized in the INC), once a protestant minister, until he claimed to be the “Last Messenger” unknowing that Joseph Smith of Mormons claimed it first before him…

Now before you boast of your so-called UNITY, consider the rest of the Marks ok.

ok, so you mean that bloc voting is not in the bible? oh come on!
and about you are saying… holy?? yes. we admit it right? we do not have SAINTS you called because the question is, is saint in the bible? yes. but your understanding about saints is wrong…and about being universal… yes. INC is spreading around the world but the truth about the church that Christ’s built is the CHurch of Christ (even priest writers also prove that) and what wrong if more attendees are filipinos? because the fact that INC started in the phil and members are fil, whats wrong with that? and many foreigners converted to the INC, theres many, not because they married filipino INC (as our friend Catholics ALWAYS saying) you are just uninformed… and about apostolic. i admit i have no idea to that. But the fact that CC CLAIMS to be apostolic, but not.
about the unity… do you know that it is one of the commandment and seen in the bible? about the unity of the church? that’s why the INC is the church or the body of christ and christ being the head of the body is one of the unity. INC practice unity in every aspect not only voting as bloc but in every way!

 

[read_me]

Thanks for the above post read me.

1. Acknowledging Christ’s True Church which existed for thousands years (more than 2,000) would debunk your Felix Manalo’s claim of apostacy. The Church was there 2,000 years ago because Jesus, our founder promised that HIS CHURCH WILL NEVER APOTATIZED!
2. Good point, the Spaniards brought “CHRISTIANITY” (not paganism as you accused us always) in the Philippines of which you should be indebted. Without the Spaniards, Christ’s True Church will never be heard and there will be no Christian Philippines.
3. Since you believe in historical facts which we too can’t deny, you shouldn’t be selective with your facts. TRUE, some abusive Catholic friars imposed Catholicism and it’s against Catholic doctrines.

TRUE, there were abusive Catholics for 300 years of colonization but they are not the Catholic Church as a whole. Even to their own abuse, they can’t tarnish the name of Christ, just as one Judas can’t bring down Jesus with him.

The same is TRUE in history, that in July 27, 1914, Felix Manalo registered his Iglesia ni Cristo as a “Corporation Sole” owned and managed only by the Manalo clan as it was stipulated in their registration under the government. I would be asking you not to deny this FACT for it only shows that Christ’s TRUE Church never apostatized just because one man claimed to be?

TRUE, the Iglesia ni Cristo (registered as Iglesia ni Cristo, not Church of Chirst) is just 95 years compared to Jesus TRUE Church which is more than 2,000 years. Use your common sense here…

TRUE, salvation is a free choice, if you dont want to be saved, then do what you want…

CAn you prove that being the oldest religion is said about the true CHurch and will be saved by Christ? even just one verse of the bible! it is same as, can you prove that being the majority of the people is one of the sign jesus christ will saved? But the fact that it is FROM THE BIBLE that there would be an APOSTASY. and it is proven how the next church administration after the death of the apostles took place. By formulating such man made doctrines. and about the spaniards, yes. because the filipinos even forced to embrace the catholic faith in the long time ago, and we all know that spaniards are so strict even kill people who does not following their commands,that’s why filipinos embrace the catholic faith. (i hope no one can deny it as i said it is from our history) and about your friars long time ago, WHATEVER EXPLANATION you say, but the FACT THAT THEY ARE CATHOLICS, they done evils as even Dr. Jose rizal exposed, our national hero, so, is that what you call HOLY among the priests??? and just i said, even ONE can represent the CC, so whatever you call about those ABUSIVE FRIARS, still they are from the CC and you cannot erase that history

 

[read_me]

funny that for you salvation is a choice, but going to INC worship is not. attendance is checked like school or an office with punch cards. actually, you guys do literally have punch cards in the INC temple

if you only KNOWS about what is the purpose of that then you will stop spreading your attack to it…

 

[M_catholic]

CAn you prove that being the oldest religion is said about the true CHurch and will be saved by Christ? even just one verse of the bible! it is same as, can you prove that being the majority of the people is one of the sign jesus christ will saved? But the fact that it is FROM THE BIBLE that there would be an APOSTASY. and it is proven how the next church administration after the death of the apostles took place. By formulating such man made doctrines. and about the spaniards, yes. because the filipinos even forced to embrace the catholic faith in the long time ago, and we all know that spaniards are so strict even kill people who does not following their commands,that’s why filipinos embrace the catholic faith. (i hope no one can deny it as i said it is from our history) and about your friars long time ago, WHATEVER EXPLANATION you say, but the FACT THAT THEY ARE CATHOLICS, they done evils as even Dr. Jose rizal exposed, our national hero, so, is that what you call HOLY among the priests??? and just i said, even ONE can represent the CC, so whatever you call about those ABUSIVE FRIARS, still they are from the CC and you cannot erase that history

you keep bringing up the apostasy issue again and again… again, I’ll ask you, would Christ abandon His church for 2000 years?

 

[choy]

so, what’s wrong if people does not embraced the faith of the jews?? and what i said is millions because it is not an exact no. but the catholic articles says that it is been i think 3-10 million INC around the world.

take note of the word “it thinks”
besides, wouldn’t INC actually know how many members there are since attendance is checked closely? but they wouldn’t reveal how many there are because it compromises their political clout. if a politician knows the truth about how many INC members are out there he wouldn’t be begging for their votes

i mean, if it were that many, surely the INC wouldn’t think twice about it. imagine if they can guarantee 5 million votes per election? it can change the tide of any election even if it wasn’t a close one

 

[choy]

no! it is also your mistake. a very common attacks to the INC. the the members are trained, etc. and being “brainwashed”… so common that i dont be surprised. well, the truth is diff from your lies,… and to prove your alligation, can you give me a doctrine of the INC that MADE from Ka Felix and not from the bible, huh? how can you say that the doctrines of the CC are from Christ’s? if even its tradition are all from pagan?? (even in some books of priest writers prove that) that god hates? and formulating doctrines, that are from the church fathers and not from Christ!

but Felix Manalo’s doctrines were not his original ideas either. he gathered several ideas from his time following other religions and integrated it into one he made his own. most notable among these are things he copied from the LDS

but where do i begin? everything Manalo taught is wrong. but let me just concentrate on the most important heresy there is, that he based the entire faith on the Bible but denies the true nature of Jesus Christ as the Begotten Son of God.

===========================================

Isaiah 43
10 “You are my witnesses,” declares the LORD,
"and my servant whom I have chosen,
so that you may know and believe me
and understand that I am he.
Before me no god was formed,
nor will there be one after me.

11 I, even I, am the LORD,
and apart from me there is no savior.

Rev 1
17When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. 18I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

in the Old Testament, God declared that there is no god before Him, and no God after Him. in Revelations Jesus affirms this by declaring that He is the First and the Last.

===========================================

John 5
16So, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jews persecuted him. 17Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working.” 18For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

=============================================

Isaiah 44
24 "This is what the LORD says—
your Redeemer, who formed you in the womb:
I am the LORD,
who has made all things,
who alone stretched out the heavens,
who spread out the earth by myself,

Collosians 1
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.

=====================================

see how God’s declaration from the Old Testament is consistent with how Jesus Christ declared Himself to be in the New Testament

 

[choy]

ok. lets say that it is true. then? like what i said it is from the bible that dont marry unbelievers to the believers! so, youre 3 “very close” friends of yours should be converted to INC because it is a commandment from the bible and not a man made. just think of this, (i heard this with my highschool teacher) how can a couple will survive, even a family if each has diff. religions or beliefs? here in the phil. everyday in the news you will noticed about “husband kill his wife” and others, why? because they cannot understand each other even in a simple argument, it can go to a serious problem to them. and most of the celebrities you know that they are making divorce. and those people having same beliefs in life… How if each of the member of the family have diff. views in one thing?

for example. you were a catholic and you love eating pork and everthing and you have strong faith and practicing your traditions as well, and your wife is a muslim that everybody knows that does not want pork and etc. how can you two survive in that relationship? that one’s tradition for exam. contradicts the other? what will be the result of this? what do you think? do you think they will have a brighter future because of that, huh?

would it surprise you to say that one of my friends who converted to INC and marry the girl are now separated? yes, they’re both INC and they’re separated now! how can this be? this cannot happen to INC members, no?

oh, but what is this?

1 Corinthians
12To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. 13And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. 14For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.

15But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace. 16How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or, how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?

wow, the Bible says it is okay to marry an unbeliever. because the spouse who is a believer has sanctified their non-believing spouse. and St. Paul goes on and says that their children are holy, blessed through the believing spouse.

 

[M_catholic]

would it surprise you to say that one of my friends who converted to INC and marry the girl are now separated? yes, they’re both INC and they’re separated now! how can this be? this cannot happen to INC members, no?

oh, but what is this?

1 Corinthians
12To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. 13And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. 14For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.

15But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace. 16How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or, how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?

wow, the Bible says it is okay to marry an unbeliever. because the spouse who is a believer has sanctified their non-believing spouse. and St. Paul goes on and says that their children are holy, blessed through the believing spouse.

good point you have there choy… Godbless

 

[choy]

ok, so you mean that bloc voting is not in the bible? oh come on!
and about you are saying… holy?? yes. we admit it right? we do not have SAINTS you called because the question is, is saint in the bible? yes. but your understanding about saints is wrong…and about being universal… yes. INC is spreading around the world but the truth about the church that Christ’s built is the CHurch of Christ (even priest writers also prove that) and what wrong if more attendees are filipinos? because the fact that INC started in the phil and members are fil, whats wrong with that? and many foreigners converted to the INC, theres many, not because they married filipino INC (as our friend Catholics ALWAYS saying) you are just uninformed… and about apostolic. i admit i have no idea to that. But the fact that CC CLAIMS to be apostolic, but not.
about the unity… do you know that it is one of the commandment and seen in the bible? about the unity of the church? that’s why the INC is the church or the body of christ and christ being the head of the body is one of the unity. INC practice unity in every aspect not only voting as bloc but in every way!

you are just proving by your words that you do not know anything, that you just hurl baseless accusations

you just said you have no idea about apostolic, and then proceeded to say that the Catholic Church is not apostolic. how can you say if the Catholic Church is not apostolic when you yourself said you don’t know what apostolic is? and then you say the Catholic Church is the one hurling baseless accusations at INC?

i believe in unity as well. but the unity of the INC is wrong. forced unity is not unity. when people have no choice but to follow, that is not unity. that is slavery. when people do not questions the directions of their leaders, it makes the devil’s job easier as it only needs to tempt one person. as St. Paul encourages us to put everything to the test:

1 Thessalonians 5
21 Put everything to the test. Hold on to what is good.

tell me what happens when an INC questions what their ministers have taught? thats right, they get expelled.

 

[choy]

if you only KNOWS about what is the purpose of that then you will stop spreading your attack to it…

then would you kindly inform us what is the purpose of that?

 

[choy]

ok. you are just continuing your myths about the INC. (haha) well, if that’s how catholics thinks to the INC. what can i do? to lie on the doctrines of the INC so that many will have negative impression to the INC… but i will repeat, the INC does not DISCOURAGE members to read the bible, not like other religions does. That because of reading the bible, they are having their own interpretation and that is wrong. In the bible, you will see that it has some passages like, “how can they preach unless they are sent?” something like that and many others. It is only god’s selected people will have the authority to preach and not everyone. and that’s why it is said that make a ministry, as the bible said.

you don’t even know what Bible passages you refer to

 

[choy]

CAn you prove that being the oldest religion is said about the true CHurch and will be saved by Christ? even just one verse of the bible! it is same as, can you prove that being the majority of the people is one of the sign jesus christ will saved? But the fact that it is FROM THE BIBLE that there would be an APOSTASY. and it is proven how the next church administration after the death of the apostles took place. By formulating such man made doctrines. and about the spaniards, yes. because the filipinos even forced to embrace the catholic faith in the long time ago, and we all know that spaniards are so strict even kill people who does not following their commands,that’s why filipinos embrace the catholic faith. (i hope no one can deny it as i said it is from our history) and about your friars long time ago, WHATEVER EXPLANATION you say, but the FACT THAT THEY ARE CATHOLICS, they done evils as even Dr. Jose rizal exposed, our national hero, so, is that what you call HOLY among the priests??? and just i said, even ONE can represent the CC, so whatever you call about those ABUSIVE FRIARS, still they are from the CC and you cannot erase that history

i am not going to defend the Spanish Friars that Rizal spoke of because we know they were abusive. but not everyone who claim to be sent by God is truly sent by God. we have already been warned by the false teachers who would appear. sometimes these false teachers appear as priests. but does 1, or 10 or 1000 abusive priest means the entire Catholic Church is corrupt and evil? lets see, Marcos was corrupt, Marcos was a Filipino, should I assume that you are corrupt as well? to conclude the sin of one or a few is the sin of all is entirely false and baseless. even among the Apostles there was one traitor. even Peter was tempted by the devil to ask Jesus to give up His mission. we are mere humans, easy to tempt, easy to fall to sin. do not tell me the INC believes that they are all free from temptation and sin?

 

[choy]

Manalo is a false teacher and the Bible tells us why:

What is a False teacher?

2 Peter 2
1 But there were also false prophets among the people. In the same way there will be false teachers among you. In secret they will bring in teachings that will destroy you. They will even turn against the Lord and Master who died to save them. His death paid for their sins. They will quickly destroy themselves. 2 Many people will follow their shameful ways. They will give the way of truth a bad name.

so False teachers are those who have turned against the Lord and Master who died to save us all. and this is Jesus Christ.

how did Manalo turn against Jesus Christ?

Matthew 10
32 "What about someone who says in front of others that he knows me? I will also say in front of my Father who is in heaven that I know him. 33 But what about someone who says in front of others that he doesn’t know me? I will say in front of my Father who is in heaven that I don’t know him.

Does Manalo know the real Jesus? he claims Jesus is not God despite Jesus saying that he is God

John 10
25Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in my Father’s name speak for me, 26but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[d]; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one.”

 

[Halima]

no! it is also your mistake. a very common attacks to the INC. the the members are trained, etc. and being “brainwashed”… so common that i dont be surprised. well, the truth is diff from your lies,… and to prove your alligation, can you give me a doctrine of the INC that MADE from Ka Felix and not from the bible, huh? how can you say that the doctrines of the CC are from Christ’s? if even its tradition are all from pagan?? (even in some books of priest writers prove that) that god hates? and formulating doctrines, that are from the church fathers and not from Christ!

Since you don’t have any official website to quote any of your official doctrines, some quotations directly quoted from your Pasugo saying that Felix Manalo formulated ALL INC teachings. And at this time this isn’t something Biblical. They are formulated, created by one man named Felix Manalo.

Since our teachings are available in the net can you please go over it and quote exactly which of our teachings are un-Biblical?

Regarding the priest who wrote a book against the Catholic Church,would you mind mentioning the name of the priest, what’s his religious congregation, what diocese, which parish, any site you can provide to verify your claims?

Funny but you are still very very ignorant of what you know. You are indeed brainwashed believing only to what you heard from your ministers. Its time for you to stand up, research and dont just believe anyone just because they told you so. Dont believe us either, go and verify our claims.
For Those Who Hate the Catholic Church

 

[marlo]

Do you know that during Felix Manalo’s time, the Iglesia ni Cristo’s original name is Iglesia ni Kristo (K?) in which what you are using is not the original name founded by Felix M?

Also, do you know that during Felix Manalo’s Time, INC or INK celebrated Christmas?
Do you know that your original logo with the sheep had a Cross?

There’s a lot of things you dont know about your church that was already changed.
read me:

                  [forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif](http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=5739847#post5739847)                 
             *no! it is also your mistake. a very common attacks to the INC. the the members are trained, etc. and being "brainwashed"... so common that i dont be surprised. well, the truth is diff from your lies,... and to prove your alligation, can you give me a doctrine of the INC that MADE from Ka Felix and not from the bible, huh? how can you say that the doctrines of the CC are from Christ's? if even its tradition are *all from pagan?? (even in some books of priest writers prove that) that god hates? and formulating doctrines, that are from the church fathers and not from Christ!

 

[read_me]

take note of the word “it thinks”
besides, wouldn’t INC actually know how many members there are since attendance is checked closely? but they wouldn’t reveal how many there are because it compromises their political clout. if a politician knows the truth about how many INC members are out there he wouldn’t be begging for their votes

i mean, if it were that many, surely the INC wouldn’t think twice about it. imagine if they can guarantee 5 million votes per election? it can change the tide of any election even if it wasn’t a close one

The question is, is YOUR IDEA about it is the TRUTH??? why then catholics always bring that issue about politicians? yes. even i admit it because i observed it. that all politicians are greedy and “plastics” because they want the INC vote. But in the side of the INC, we are just following what was the bible says. my question is, is it WRONG to follow GOD’s commandments? or lets say the doctrines that is in the bible? is that WRONG???

 

[read_me]

but Felix Manalo’s doctrines were not his original ideas either. he gathered several ideas from his time following other religions and integrated it into one he made his own. most notable among these are things he copied from the LDS

but where do i begin? everything Manalo taught is wrong. but let me just concentrate on the most important heresy there is, that he based the entire faith on the Bible but denies the true nature of Jesus Christ as the Begotten Son of God.

===========================================

Isaiah 43
10 “You are my witnesses,” declares the LORD,
"and my servant whom I have chosen,
so that you may know and believe me
and understand that I am he.
Before me no god was formed,
nor will there be one after me.

11 I, even I, am the LORD,
and apart from me there is no savior.

Rev 1
17When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. 18I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

in the Old Testament, God declared that there is no god before Him, and no God after Him. in Revelations Jesus affirms this by declaring that He is the First and the Last.

===========================================

John 5
16So, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jews persecuted him. 17Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working.” 18For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

=============================================

Isaiah 44
24 "This is what the LORD says—
your Redeemer, who formed you in the womb:
I am the LORD,
who has made all things,
who alone stretched out the heavens,
who spread out the earth by myself,

Collosians 1
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.

=====================================

see how God’s declaration from the Old Testament is consistent with how Jesus Christ declared Himself to be in the New Testament

and how can you say that ka felix copied doctrines from the LDS? Is it only because there were doctrines in the LDS same to the doctrines of the INC?? So? what is wrong if it is the TRUTH?? If it is the true gods commandments. huh? and yes. i am not surprised that you will say that all teachings from the bible of ka felix were wrong. because you were a CATHOLIC and i am an INC member! i will surprise if you defend the INC teachings, hello???! and how can you say that INC doctrines are wrong only because the doctrine of the trinity is not of our doctrine? But how can it be the doctrine FROM the bible if that FORMULATION only showed on the 4th century and proven by the history that it is from the CHURCH FATHERS and not even one of the teachings of the apostles??
and in all of the said verses, let me ask you, is what you are believing in the interpretation of that is what it MUST be interpreted? it is just so SIMPLE, so why did jesus not DECLARED if he is the only one true god? why, why, why??!! is it because jesus makes lies because he always introduce as himself as son of god and not son-god? and introduce the only true god, the father? huh?