Iglesia Ni Cristo

[Milliardo]

Theiy aproach the bible like any literalists do. And their oversimplistic explanation of the bible can easily convince anyone who are not used to reading the bible. Once you become a member, it will be hard for you to get out, since your attendance is monitored. Most of those who are lucky to get out are disowned by their family and some are even harrassed.

I have an Iglesia friend who converted to “Ang Dating Daan” (ADD). He went to some provinces in the Philippines and debated his old church (INC). Two of his friend ended up salvaged and he is now hiding in the U.S. I don’t know about the “salvage” story, but he swear that it really happened and there is a police report on it. He said that now he believes the story that’s been going around that Iglesia salvage those whom they think is a threat to their church.

When he was still a member of Iglesia, we used to talk about religion and he used to boast that their church can not just be overun by other gangs, or anti-Iglesia group, since they have guns and they come back in group or they exact their revenge as a group. It is the same with muslims, that is why muslims and Iglesia do not attack each other because they know that they have the same methodology of exacting revenge, which means to say fight to the death. That is really scary.

I was laughing when I read Karl Keating’s story when he said something in effect that he was kind of uneasy debating Jose Ventillacion of INC. The place they debated was full of Iglesia member and their group was only a handful. Sounds like Iglesia in the Philippines, they come in full force to intimidate!!!

Yes, I have heard such stories. I don’t want to take stock of such stories at first, but there’s fairly quite many and even coming from reputable sources that it got worrying after awhile. BTW, for those reading this and don’t know, in Filipino the term “salvage” is slang for liquidating someone, so its usage at least in popular Filipino is counter to how it is normally used in English…hmmm…makes me want to make a thread about Filipinisms here, but that’s another topic.

 

[patrick457]

Yes, I have heard such stories. I don’t want to take stock of such stories at first, but there’s fairly quite many and even coming from reputable sources that it got worrying after awhile. BTW, for those reading this and don’t know, in Filipino the term “salvage” is slang for liquidating someone, so its usage at least in popular Filipino is counter to how it is normally used in English…hmmm…makes me want to make a thread about Filipinisms here, but that’s another topic.

Salvage in Tagalog slang means ‘Summary Execution’, isn’t it?

I used to watch the INC and the ‘Ang Dating Daan’ once.

I think the ADD is more outspoken against the Church against the INC since Soriano calls the clergy ‘demons’ and exhorts his followers to ‘hate this religion’. Yet the arguments they use are actually the same ones Jack T. Chick and others use.

Soriano also has a habit of swearing. Every now and then while he is preaching he will include curse words (in Tagalog). I think he even justified his swearing using the ‘Whore of Babylon’. ‘whore’, he says, is equivalent to modern English swearword ‘b****’ and thus, it is okay to use p***,(A tagalog swearword that has a similar meaning) since the BIble uses this word. [Sorry for this paragraph. ]

The INC (at least the one in the Philippines) seems to spend less time attacking Catholics and more time attacking ADD. The only thing they and the ADD have in common is that their Anti-Catholic arguments are UNORIGINAL.

 

[ferdie]

Yes, I have heard such stories. I don’t want to take stock of such stories at first, but there’s fairly quite many and even coming from reputable sources that it got worrying after awhile. BTW, for those reading this and don’t know, in Filipino the term “salvage” is slang for liquidating someone, so its usage at least in popular Filipino is counter to how it is normally used in English…hmmm…makes me want to make a thread about Filipinisms here, but that’s another topic.

Ahhh, thanks for clarifying that. One thing we have to remember is that it is not their teaching to liquidate those who are against their church. it is just the action of their members. But they do have guns in their church in the Philippines.

 

[admaioranatus]

Hello, I don’t really know about that church having guns or something.
What I know is that they are kinda good on what they are doing (propaganda and such). i’m scared because their weird-looking spaceship-like houses are spread throughout on some places in the Philippines. their members put “Net 25” (net 25, a tv station that shows the INC’s programs) bumper stickers and their green-white-red stickers (i dunno about this, i think its their religions color) on their cars.

 

[patrick457]

Hello, I don’t really know about that church having guns or something.
What I know is that they are kinda good on what they are doing (propaganda and such). i’m scared because their weird-looking spaceship-like houses are spread throughout on some places in the Philippines. their members put “Net 25” (net 25, a tv station that shows the INC’s programs) bumper stickers and their green-white-red stickers (i dunno about this, i think its their religions color) on their cars.

Net 25 is Iglesia ni Cristo’s channel. They operate it.

And yes, Green, White, and Red is their official color. It’s the color of their logo, which seems to be a modified version of the Official Philippine Seal.

YOu can see their official logo in front of their churches.

 

[admaioranatus]

Ahhh, thanks for clarifying that. One thing we have to remember is that it is not their teaching to liquidate those who are against their church. it is just the action of their members. But they do have guns in their church in the Philippines.

people from the RCC leave Her primarily (well this is what i think) because of the lack of cathecism here in the Philippines. so when the INC people comes knocking on peoples doors, if they’re lucky, oh, darn. Lets pray for the Legions of Mary this October, to guide them to return people back to the church.

 

[janryboy]

i think I’ve posted this one before…

but I think they are freemasons…on their logo is a Compass and an Inverted triangle under it…a freemasonry symbol…

I think Manalo is…

as we all know freemasons dont believe that Jesus is God…

horrible one…

 

[ssejllenrad]

i think I’ve posted this one before…

but I think they are freemasons…on their logo is a Compass and an Inverted triangle under it…a freemasonry symbol…

I think Manalo is…

as we all know freemasons dont believe that Jesus is God…

horrible one…

I’m not quite sure if they’re freemasons. What I’m sure of is what you said that they both don’t believe in Jesus’ divinity.

BTW… Another sect in the Philippines though, I’m quite convinced that is of freemasonry is the “Iglesia Filipina Independiente” of Gregorio Aglipay. The name itself is so… Liberal… Maybe it should be a topic for another thread though… coz I’m moving away from the INC topic… Hehe!

 

[aeisiel]

I’m not quite sure if they’re freemasons. What I’m sure of is what you said that they both don’t believe in Jesus’ divinity.

BTW… Another sect in the Philippines though, I’m quite convinced that is of freemasonry is the “Iglesia Filipina Independiente” of Gregorio Aglipay. The name itself is so… Liberal… Maybe it should be a topic for another thread though… coz I’m moving away from the INC topic… Hehe!

In my opinion the “Iglesia Filipina Independiente” or Aglipay church members are not freemasons either, though its founder, Gregorio Aglipay was a freemason who served as one of the generals of General Emilio Aguinaldo during the revolt against Spain, remember all the revolutionary leaders against Spain then were freemasons including their national hero Jose Rizal.

Gregorio Aglipay was a Catholic priest but was ex-communicated because of his support for the revolution and after the revolution he found his own church. The Aglipayano sect caused more annoyance than damage to the Church in the Philippines.

 

[losav]

I would like to inform all Forum members that I was personally attacked by members of the Iglesia ni Cristo headed by the author of this blog resbak.com.

I hope he brings up his dirty tricks here, let’s see if his personality attack can be accepted in forums such as this.

 

[read_me]

so, i just want to ask if inc is not the true church that was in the bible, so, what was that church??

 

[crisanthony13]

so, i just want to ask if inc is not the true church that was in the bible, so, what was that church??

tsk tsk tsk … i can’t tell how stupid are you … INC are brainwashed so they’ll believe in manalo’s doctrine … manalo is the greatest traitor … have you already read this? catholic.com/library/Iglesia_Ni_Cristo.asp … read this … i don’t care if you believe or what coz’ INC have the highest pride … they are not open minded … i don’t care … and it tells them that the bible is telling a group of local churches … not giving an organizational name …

 

[read_me]

tsk tsk tsk … i can’t tell how stupid are you … INC are brainwashed so they’ll believe in manalo’s doctrine … manalo is the greatest traitor … have you already read this? catholic.com/library/Iglesia_Ni_Cristo.asp … read this … i don’t care if you believe or what coz’ INC have the highest pride … they are not open minded … i don’t care … and it tells them that the bible is telling a group of local churches … not giving an organizational name …

ok, so, i think and i am sure that you have a great anger with the inc, and i will just asked you, WHY?? hehehe because you are always saying that members are brainwashed, wait, if that is a fact, so, can you give me some proofs?? like in a news article, or whatever. ok? then if you cant get proofs, it means you are such a liar or having propaganda against inc… and why you want me to look for that site? and it is a fact that that article is saying negatives and saying that inc’s teachings are false. that it is also a propaganda, not a truth. but how about their teaching??

…trinity

…christmas

…(pinitensya) in the phil. where someone hurt himself because they
believe that their sin will lesser if they do that. this is not an
invented story, this is true.

…worshiping idols

…having prayers that is being repeated again and again and again

…having feasts (for the patrons or saints)

and others…

is these all in the bible… ?? how can you prove it? then, start to research now! haha

 

[SalomeBintullah]

Well, I don’t know very much about INC other than that they sound like a Filipino version of the Jehovah’s Witnesses, but I can answer some of these because I get almost identical challenges from Muslims.

ok, so, i think and i am sure that you have a great anger with the inc, and i will just asked you, WHY?? hehehe because you are always saying that members are brainwashed, wait, if that is a fact, so, can you give me some proofs?? like in a news article, or whatever. ok? then if you cant get proofs, it means you are such a liar or having propaganda against inc… and why you want me to look for that site? and it is a fact that that article is saying negatives and saying that inc’s teachings are false. that it is also a propaganda, not a truth. but how about their teaching??

…trinity

Right now on my blog I’m doing a series of posts on Biblical proof of the Trinity. Here is the first post, which provides many scriptural references. Check out the rest of the posts in the series (I’m not done yet) for more Biblical engagement with the doctrine of the Trinity. ScriptureCatholic.com has also assembled a good (http://scripturecatholic.com/jesus_christ_divinity.html) of Biblical verses and quotations from the Church Fathers on Christ’s divinity.

…christmas

I assume that you refer to the celebration of Christmas, rather than the actual event. If Jesus is indeed God Christmas is worth celebrating. No doubt what you’re trying to get at is that Christmas is allegedly pagan. It’s true that Christmas falls on a day that once marked a pagan celebration and that some Christmas traditions (such as trees and mistletoe) have been appropriated from paganism. The point is that these things no longer have pagan significance; they’ve been sanctified and directed toward worship of the one true God.

And the first Christmas was indeed celebrated, whether it was on December 25th or some other day. The Magi “rejoiced” and worshiped the child Jesus, presenting him with gifts (Matt 2:10-11). Angels sang praises at his birth (Luke 2:13-14). The shepherds went and visited the newborn baby in the manger and went away glorifying God (Luke 2:15-20). There’s ample evidence in the Bible that Christmas is well worth celebrating. Celebrating the birth of Jesus is very Biblical.

…(pinitensya) in the phil. where someone hurt himself because they believe that their sin will lesser if they do that. this is not an invented story, this is true.

If this is true, then surely you will have no problem with providing us with legitimate proof, now will you? Even if this is true, this is an error of some Filipino Catholics and not a teaching of the Catholic Church.

…worshiping idols

We don’t worship idols. We venerate images of holy people and of God. Please see this list of Bible verses that support this practice. Also, there’s a thread in this forum called “Graven Images” that I suggest you read.

…having prayers that is being repeated again and again and again

Please see this list of Bible verses that justify this practice. Jesus was condemning pagans babbling to their gods. He was talking about prayer that is vain and repetitious, with emphasis on the “vain,” because the gods of the pagans cannot respond. They don’t exist. Also, if you condemn prayer that is merely repetitious you must also condemn Psalm 135, Psalm 136, Psalm 148, Psalm 149, Psalm 150, the angels of heaven in Revelation 4:8, and Jesus himself in Matt 26:44, to name just a few Biblical examples.

…having feasts (for the patrons or saints)

I fail to see what’s so evil about commemorating the lives of good and holy people. Nonetheless, see this list of Bible verses that support saint veneration.

and others…

is these all in the bible… ?? how can you prove it? then, start to research now! haha

No, it’s true that not all these thing are in the Bible. But the burden is on you to prove that it has to be in the Bible to be true.

 

[SalomeBintullah]

so, i just want to ask if inc is not the true church that was in the bible, so, what was that church??

Naturally we believe that it is the Catholic Church.

 

[patrick457]

Read me,
You just gave the rather standard accusations that has been refuted countless times (a simple search through the forums would show you that). I would only answer a few, seeing that others have already gave an adequate answer:

…(pinitensya) in the phil. where someone hurt himself because they
believe that their sin will lesser if they do that. this is not an
invented story, this is true.

1. Is penitensya a legitimate, official practice of the Catholic Church? (no, just because many people do it does not mean it’s already “official”)
   *]Is there any support in official Catholic writings for the (erroneous) belief that one’s sin (be they mortal or venial) will be absolved by, say, flogging or crucifying oneself? If so, I’d like to see it.
   

   …worshiping idols

   1. Try to square Exodus 20:1-6 with other instances from the Bible where God literally commands Moses to carve something (Exodus 25:31-40; 26:1, 31; Numbers 21:4-10) and the “graven images” in the Temple of Solomon (1 Kings 6:23-36).
      *]Do Catholics give latreia (adoration proper to God alone) to icons or statues? Prove your accusation with a quote from an official Catholic document, from the horse’s mouth so to speak.
      *]Prove that Catholics venerate or honor the material of the statue instead of the person depicted. Again back it up with a citation.
      *]How do you define “worship”? (It may sound like a non-sequitur, but differences in definitions are actually one cause of misunderstandings)
      

      …having prayers that is being repeated again and again and again

      1. 
         *]In Matthew 6:7, Jesus uses the word battalogeō, an obscure word perhaps more properly translated as “to babble”, “to stammer” or “to stutter”. So, are Catholic prayers considered “babbling” or “stammering” now?
         *]If “vain repetitions” are a bad thing, why does Jesus repeat His prayer (Matthew 26:42-44; Mark 14:35-39)?
         *]The angels constantly sing “Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, who was, and is, and is to come” before God’s throne (Revelation 4:8). Are they not guilty of “prayers being repeated again and again and again”?
         *]Psalm 136 has the refrain, “His mercy endureth forever”. Yet another example of “repetitious prayer” if you ask me.
         *]In Deuteronomy 6:4-7, God commands Moses to say,
         
         “Hear, O Israel: the LORD our God, the LORD is one. And you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength. And these words which I command you today shall be in your heart, and you shall engrave them to your sons, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, when you walk along the road, when you lie down, and when you rise up.*”
         
         *Hebrew shanan, literally “to be pierced”, “to sharpen” or “to whet”. Also “to repeat”, “to iterate”, or “to do a thing again and again”.
         
         How bad of God to encourage this, as it would just lead to :gasp: repetition!
         

         and others…

         is these all in the bible… ?? how can you prove it? then, start to research now! haha

         I’ll also ask you to do research. You know, to prove your claims or give better ones instead of dropping recycled ones that has been answered for the nth time.

 

[crisanthony13]

it’s all in the faith …

 

[read_me]

Well, I don’t know very much about INC other than that they sound like a Filipino version of the Jehovah’s Witnesses, but I can answer some of these because I get almost identical challenges from Muslims.

Right now on my blog I’m doing a series of posts on Biblical proof of the Trinity. Here is the first post, which provides many scriptural references. Check out the rest of the posts in the series (I’m not done yet) for more Biblical engagement with the doctrine of the Trinity. ScriptureCatholic.com has also assembled a good (http://scripturecatholic.com/jesus_christ_divinity.html) of Biblical verses and quotations from the Church Fathers on Christ’s divinity.

I assume that you refer to the celebration of Christmas, rather than the actual event. If Jesus is indeed God Christmas is worth celebrating. No doubt what you’re trying to get at is that Christmas is allegedly pagan. It’s true that Christmas falls on a day that once marked a pagan celebration and that some Christmas traditions (such as trees and mistletoe) have been appropriated from paganism. The point is that these things no longer have pagan significance; they’ve been sanctified and directed toward worship of the one true God.

And the first Christmas was indeed celebrated, whether it was on December 25th or some other day. The Magi “rejoiced” and worshiped the child Jesus, presenting him with gifts (Matt 2:10-11). Angels sang praises at his birth (Luke 2:13-14). The shepherds went and visited the newborn baby in the manger and went away glorifying God (Luke 2:15-20). There’s ample evidence in the Bible that Christmas is well worth celebrating. Celebrating the birth of Jesus is very Biblical.

If this is true, then surely you will have no problem with providing us with legitimate proof, now will you? Even if this is true, this is an error of some Filipino Catholics and not a teaching of the Catholic Church.

We don’t worship idols. We venerate images of holy people and of God. Please see this list of Bible verses that support this practice. Also, there’s a thread in this forum called “Graven Images” that I suggest you read.

Please see this list of Bible verses that justify this practice. Jesus was condemning pagans babbling to their gods. He was talking about prayer that is vain and repetitious, with emphasis on the “vain,” because the gods of the pagans cannot respond. They don’t exist. Also, if you condemn prayer that is merely repetitious you must also condemn Psalm 135, Psalm 136, Psalm 148, Psalm 149, Psalm 150, the angels of heaven in Revelation 4:8, and Jesus himself in Matt 26:44, to name just a few Biblical examples.

I fail to see what’s so evil about commemorating the lives of good and holy people. Nonetheless, see this list of Bible verses that support saint veneration.

No, it’s true that not all these thing are in the Bible. But the burden is on you to prove that it has to be in the Bible to be true.

first, i dont read all of the content about your blog about trinity because im running out of time. but i had read i think atleast 5 paragraphs. at first, it is a FACT that in the bible, you cannot find the word TRINITY, right? second, even it is obviously not in the bible, still others believes in it, and i had read this one on your blog "Here is another scriptural example that Jesus himself gave: "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name [singular] of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" (Matthew 28:19, emphasis added). " is these the explanation? or just an evidence that others misunderstand what really bible says? lets go to your said verse. it says that “baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit”… but it doesnt says that baptizing them in the name of the father/son/holy spirit, right?? there is a word AND in there. and that AND is used to separate, it is not used as EQUAL… em’ i right?? and etc…

and in about christmas, yes! you knew about it! that dec25 or christmas is from the practices of pagans… and god really hate pagans or theyre practices, it is in the bible right? and i just want to say, is the bible says that… “we must celebrate jesus birth every DEC 25???” lets face it, is it that celebrating christmas is only an adddition, or man made teaching?? and the answer is?.. hehehe

and about that penitensya… yes! it is ab absolute true, ask filipinos and you will get a yes… this is just an example of penitensya…

youtube.com/watch?v=tqATrqJo2C8

just watch it… and i will say that it is obviously a wrong practices right? even you, said that it is wrong… but the question is… who are those people who does that practices?? is it the muslims?? or the jehovas?? or the inc?? but the answer is the catholics… and i just want to ask, if that is wrong, why the priests or your church not stop those kind of practices?? or why they are not stopped it several years ago in doing such practices?? huh?? or just facing that this teaching is also an example of wrongness on your chuch, right?

and etc…

 

[read_me]

Read me,
You just gave the rather standard accusations that has been refuted countless times (a simple search through the forums would show you that). I would only answer a few, seeing that others have already gave an adequate answer:

1. Is penitensya a legitimate, official practice of the Catholic Church? (no, just because many people do it does not mean it’s already “official”)
   *]Is there any support in official Catholic writings for the (erroneous) belief that one’s sin (be they mortal or venial) will be absolved by, say, flogging or crucifying oneself? If so, I’d like to see it.
   
   1. Try to square Exodus 20:1-6 with other instances from the Bible where God literally commands Moses to carve something (Exodus 25:31-40; 26:1, 31; Numbers 21:4-10) and the “graven images” in the Temple of Solomon (1 Kings 6:23-36).
      *]Do Catholics give latreia (adoration proper to God alone) to icons or statues? Prove your accusation with a quote from an official Catholic document, from the horse’s mouth so to speak.
      *]Prove that Catholics venerate or honor the material of the statue instead of the person depicted. Again back it up with a citation.
      *]How do you define “worship”? (It may sound like a non-sequitur, but differences in definitions are actually one cause of misunderstandings)
      
      1. 
         *]In Matthew 6:7, Jesus uses the word battalogeō, an obscure word perhaps more properly translated as “to babble”, “to stammer” or “to stutter”. So, are Catholic prayers considered “babbling” or “stammering” now?
         *]If “vain repetitions” are a bad thing, why does Jesus repeat His prayer (Matthew 26:42-44; Mark 14:35-39)?
         *]The angels constantly sing “Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, who was, and is, and is to come” before God’s throne (Revelation 4:8). Are they not guilty of “prayers being repeated again and again and again”?
         *]Psalm 136 has the refrain, “His mercy endureth forever”. Yet another example of “repetitious prayer” if you ask me.
         *]In Deuteronomy 6:4-7, God commands Moses to say,
         
         “Hear, O Israel: the LORD our God, the LORD is one. And you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength. And these words which I command you today shall be in your heart, and you shall engrave them to your sons, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, when you walk along the road, when you lie down, and when you rise up.*”
         
         *Hebrew shanan, literally “to be pierced”, “to sharpen” or “to whet”. Also “to repeat”, “to iterate”, or “to do a thing again and again”.
         
         How bad of God to encourage this, as it would just lead to :gasp: repetition!
         
         I’ll also ask you to do research. You know, to prove your claims or give better ones instead of dropping recycled ones that has been answered for the nth time.

1. 1. 1. 
         first of all… that is not an accussationsssss, that all are true, that are those teaching that is false… and in about that penitensya, this was just an example…
         
         youtube.com/watch?v=tqATrqJo2C8
         
         watch it! and be enlighten that penitensya is a catholic practice that is obviously and clearly wrong, right?? but wait, if those practices are wrong, why your church dont stop or advice filipinos who continually doing it to stop it?? just an evidence that this was one of the wrongness in your church… right?
         
         and about in worshiping idols and having feasts that is a tribute to the saints…
         do you think, like in this video
         youtube.com/watch?v=-nzEqpP2ngs
         is not worshiping the statue or an idol?? take a look of it.
         many of the devouter of the black Nazarene go to that place just to participate in it.
         that they bring some towels or anything and they will rub it in that statue and
         they believe that if they will rub also that to their body (those who have sicknesses or etc.) and their sicknesses will be gone… in short, they are believing of miracle. is that right?? that every year many are get dizzy, become unconscious and etc. because of that event, even die…
         
         and etc…

 

[read_me]

these was the wrong teachings:
ive just added some… heheheh

…trinity

…christmas

…(pinitensya) in the phil. where someone hurt himself because they
believe that their sin will lesser if they do that. this is not an
invented story, this is true.

…worshiping idols

…having prayers that is being repeated again and again and again

…having feasts (for the patrons or saints)

…valentines day

…all saints day and/ or all souls day

…purgatory

…divorce

em i right?