Iglesia Ni Cristo

[M_catholic]

come on now, you have just proven how little is your understanding of the catholic faith is.

idol worshipping, feasts, christmas, purgatory, and so forth… these are already answered and defended by the Church with the guidance of Jesus as promised that he will never leave His Church.
Now, your church teaches that the CC is the apostatized church. If Jesus, said 18And I tell you that you are Peter,[a] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades** will not overcome it.[c]
Don’t you think that Manalo made Jesus a liar? because He let the devil enter the church and destroyed it?

peace be with you… May you be enlightened!**

 

[SalomeBintullah]

first, i dont read all of the content about your blog about trinity because im running out of time. but i had read i think atleast 5 paragraphs. at first, it is a FACT that in the bible, you cannot find the word TRINITY, right?

Yes, I’ve already stated that quite candidly, as have others on this thread. We’re well aware of it. It doesn’t have to be explicitly stated in the Bible in order to be true. The Bible itself says so (see this list of verses for proof).

second, even it is obviously not in the bible, still others believes in it, and i had read this one on your blog "Here is another scriptural example that Jesus himself gave: "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name [singular] of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" (Matthew 28:19, emphasis added). " is these the explanation? or just an evidence that others misunderstand what really bible says? lets go to your said verse. it says that “baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit”… but it doesnt says that baptizing them in the name of the father/son/holy spirit, right?? there is a word AND in there. and that AND is used to separate, it is not used as EQUAL… em’ i right?? and etc…

It is both explanation and evidence. You don’t know grammar very well, do you? You’re wrong. You’ve ignored the “name” part completely. It is that part that is singular. If the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three separate entities, then it would have said “in the names of…” Seriously, this is Grammar 101. Sheesh.

and in about christmas, yes! you knew about it! that dec25 or christmas is from the practices of pagans… and god really hate pagans or theyre practices, it is in the bible right? and i just want to say, is the bible says that… “we must celebrate jesus birth every DEC 25???” lets face it, is it that celebrating christmas is only an adddition, or man made teaching?? and the answer is?.. hehehe

Yes! I knew about it! Stop the presses! We’ve known it since the feast was first instituted. Christmas has been taken from the pagans and sanctified, directed in holy worship toward the One True God. The Hebrews did the exact same thing with animal sacrifice.

The answer is that Christmas has its roots in the Bible, and the day is incidental.

and about that penitensya… yes! it is ab absolute true, ask filipinos and you will get a yes… this is just an example of penitensya…

youtube.com/watch?v=tqATrqJo2C8

just watch it… and i will say that it is obviously a wrong practices right? even you, said that it is wrong… but the question is… who are those people who does that practices?? is it the muslims?? or the jehovas?? or the inc?? but the answer is the catholics… and i just want to ask, if that is wrong, why the priests or your church not stop those kind of practices?? or why they are not stopped it several years ago in doing such practices?? huh?? or just facing that this teaching is also an example of wrongness on your chuch, right?

and etc…

All right, I watched it. And I noticed how they were not near any church and how there were no priests or religious around either. It certainly did not look like it was encouraged or sanctioned by the Catholic Church. How do you know that the priests and the Church aren’t trying to stop these practices? I took an Eastern Civilizations class a year ago. It was taught by a man who grew up in the Philippines, so we spent quite a lot of time studying that country and practices like this. In fact, we watched a documentary about how Catholic clergy and others are trying to improve people’s lives in the Philippines. And you know what? According to the professor himself, these and similar practices have their roots in cultural practices and worldview that predate Christianity. It’s the culture, not the religion. It is not an example of “the wrongness of my church.” It’s an example of well-meant but excessive zeal from people that I strongly suspect are not very well educated.

 

[SalomeBintullah]

these was the wrong teachings:
ive just added some… heheheh

…trinity

…christmas

…(pinitensya) in the phil. where someone hurt himself because they
believe that their sin will lesser if they do that. this is not an
invented story, this is true.

…worshiping idols

…having prayers that is being repeated again and again and again

…having feasts (for the patrons or saints)

Already answered in earlier posts.

…valentines day

Valentine’s Day? Seriously? Properly called St. Valentine’s Day, this is the feast day of a priest in Rome who was martyred for performing marriages. The emperor at that time wanted more men to join his army and reasoned that if he outlawed marriage then more men would enlist. God permits marriage, so St. Valentine disobeyed the emperor and obeyed God. If you’re condemning the commercialization of this holiday in the West, then I tend to agree with you. Candy hearts and Valentine cards do trivialize what is supposed to be a solemn occasion that honors a holy man and the sanctity of marriage.

…all saints day and/ or all souls day

…purgatory

Here’s a list of Bible verses proving purgatory.

…divorce

Uh, you are aware that the Catholic Church does not recognize divorce, aren’t you? Annulments are not divorce. An annulment says that the marriage was never valid in the first place. The Church does not hand out annulments to anyone who wants them. An investigation into the marriage must be done, sometimes taking as long as two years, and in the end the marriage may be found to be valid. Anyone who gets a divorce and then get remarried when their first marriage is valid is committing the sin of adultery.

em i right?

In a word, no.

 

[SalomeBintullah]

and about in worshiping idols and having feasts that is a tribute to the saints…
do you think, like in this video
youtube.com/watch?v=-nzEqpP2ngs
is not worshiping the statue or an idol?? take a look of it.
many of the devouter of the black Nazarene go to that place just to participate in it.
that they bring some towels or anything and they will rub it in that statue and
they believe that if they will rub also that to their body (those who have sicknesses or etc.) and their sicknesses will be gone… in short, they are believing of miracle. is that right?? that every year many are get dizzy, become unconscious and etc. because of that event, even die…

and etc…

You ask: “Is that right?” Here is my answer:

Thus they even carried the sick out into the streets and laid them on cots and mats so that when Peter came by, at least his shadow might fall on one or another of them. A large number of people from the towns in the vicinity of Jerusalem also gathered, bringing the sick and those disturbed by unclean spirits, and they were all cured. (Acts 5:15)

So extraordinary were the mighty deeds God accomplished at the hands of Paul that when face cloths or aprons that touched his skin were applied to the sick, their diseases left them and the evil spirits came out of them. (Acts 19:11-12)

I watched the video, and other than some of the people seeming a little overly enthusiastic, I didn’t think that there was anything terribly wrong with it. Westerners tend to be a lot more restrained than that. Still, I went up and kissed the cross at Good Friday services. It was one of the most wonderful experiences I’ve ever had. They were touching the cloths to the cross (I think it was a cross, but the video was rather fuzzy) so that the cloths would become relics. We Catholics in the West also have relics that have been touched to holy images or holy people. It’s an extremely Biblical practice, as the verses above prove.

 

[patrick457]

first of all… that is not an accussationsssss, that all are true, that are those teaching that is false… and in about that penitensya, this was just an example…

youtube.com/watch?v=tqATrqJo2C8

watch it! and be enlighten that penitensya is a catholic practice that is obviously and clearly wrong, right?? but wait, if those practices are wrong, why your church dont stop or advice filipinos who continually doing it to stop it?? just an evidence that this was one of the wrongness in your church… right?

You’re too late in your news, kapatid. The Church in the Philippines did make steps to discourage the practice (here’s a news FROM 2004!) but just as that news states, it would be rather difficult and would take some time to stamp the practice out completely. However, I sense that the Department of Tourism would be dreadfully disappointed if that stops…the whole thing’s (unfortunately) become a tourist attraction, no?

(Yes, I’m familiar with all that - I was born and raised in the Philippines after all )

I would not deny that penance and self-mortification does have some precedent in Catholic spirituality, and is even affirmed* and that some saints even engaged in some of these (no one crucified themselves however, mind you). However, these people in the Philippines have just jumbled things up.

Crucifying or flogging yourself does not get you an automatic, irrevokable ticket to heaven, nor does it grant you an automatic “get out of sin free” card. No matter what some of these people say (tip: if someone, even if it be a Catholic, is saying something that you could not verify from the official sources, it would be best to take them with a grain of salt and not treat them as if they’re on par with actual Catholic doctrine). They’ve turned a good and commendable practice into something that rather reeks of superstition (A BAD THING, if you’ll ask me). Here’s a good introduction on the Catholic idea of mortification.

*See for example the following:

“Jesus’ call to conversion and penance, like that of the prophets before him, does not aim first at outward works, “sackcloth and ashes,” fasting and mortification, but at the conversion of the heart, interior conversion. Without this, such penances remain sterile and false; however, interior conversion urges expression in visible signs, gestures and works of penance.”

-Catechism of the Catholic Church 1430

 

[patrick457]

You know, you’ve never really answered my questions back at you.

…valentines day

…all saints day and/ or all souls day

And this is wrong? How?

…purgatory

For this see here.

…divorce

The Catholic Church treats all consummated sacramental marriages as permanent during the life of the spouses, and therefore does not allow remarriage after a divorce if the other spouse still lives and the marriage has not been annulled.

Meanwhile, an annulment is a canonical procedure according to the Church’s Canon Law whereby an ecclesial tribunal judges whether the bond of matrimony in a particular case was entered into validly. A number of conditions are necessary for the sacrament of marriage to be valid. Annulment is not the ecclesial equivalent of a divorce. A “Declaration of Nullity” is not a dissolution of an existing marriage, but rather a determination that a marriage never existed.

According to the Church, an annulment affirms the Scriptural basis of divorce and at the same time affirms that in a true marriage, a man and a woman become one flesh before the eyes of God. The Church’s teaching on marriage is that it is a Sacrament and that it is only validly contracted by the two individuals. Various impediments can render an individual unable to contract marriage.

em i right?

Erm, no. You’ve just dropped one liners instead of giving adequate explanations as to why these are wrong. I think you’d have more success convincing your audience if your accusations give a detailed explanation as to why they are incorrect (something like “I believe this is wrong because…”) rather than dropping vague statements.

 

[altabz]

Mister readme i just want to remind you that angles have wings ???hehehe

And then the bible told us this; “Even if an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than one that we preached, let that one be accursed!” Gal. 1:8

 

[altabz]

Since read me accuse Catholics of being unscriptural my be we should ask if where in the scripture could he find the basis of his founders basis in making another church…? Please mister read me enlightened us…

 

[read_me]

oh, to others, sorry for i have join the “divorce”. i admit it. but well, i have decision that i will just build a blog then i will put all the explanations of mine there. i wish i could finish it for a month for i am truly busy because of my duties to other doings. so, i will just publish my blog or site. ok? tnx to all of you, remember, we just only enemies in debating about our belief but not in personal. hehhehe

 

[read_me]

woaah. finally, i had been busy building my site. haaha but it is still underconstruction. The Catholic church, what happened to it? is it having INCREASING their members or the fact that they are decreasing? a poor one. wohow. the sign that the apostasy occured to it.

 

[M_catholic]

woaah. finally, i had been busy building my site. haaha but it is still underconstruction. The Catholic church, what happened to it? is it having INCREASING their members or the fact that they are decreasing? a poor one. wohow. the sign that the apostasy occured to it.

you sure?

what I know is, it’s still growing despite the attacks of the devil. Just what Jesus promised that the gates of hell shall not prevail against His church.

where did you get your facts again?

 

[mardukm]

I had an encounter with an INC pastor once. It’s kind of funny. As part of his “proof” against the Catholic Church, he pulled out this book (from a Catholic publishing company) which listed the apostolic succession of Rome, and he pointed out that to the right of the names of several of the earliest Popes, a question mark in parentheses is placed (all other Popes had the dates of their papacy next to their names in parentheses).

In a very sincere tone, he said to me while pointing to the question marks, “My friend, how can you belong to a Church who does not even know who their earliest leaders were?” I’m telling you, it can only have been the Holy Spirit who gave me the strength to not break down in raucous laughter in front of this gentleman. After taking a little time to make sure that I would not burst out laughing once I opened my mouth to speak (I’m sure he took my several-seconds silence to mean I was actually taking his argument seriously), I calmly said to him. “Really? Since all the other names have the dates of their episcopate in parentheses, doesn’t the question mark in parentheses only mean that we are unsure of those dates, not that we don’t know who were our first bishops?” You had to see the look on his face. It literally looked like the rug was pulled out from under him.

Folks, that’s the kind of “logic” you will face when speaking to members of INC. There’s nothing intellectually satisfying or rational about their religion, so it is very difficult to actually reason with them. INC is attractive to Filipinos for only two reasons - (1) it appeals to the nationalistic spirit of Filipinos (being a cult started in the Philippines is a huge selling point), (2) they know how to put on a show (flairy sermons and big, ornate churches), which appeals to the Filipino appreciation for extravagance and beauty. Don’t argue scripture with them. It would be fruitless because they don’t believe in the Bible that all other Christians possess, but have their own twisted version. What you need to do is appeal to the Filipino sense of fairness and emotion (but avoid ad hominems). Invite them to read or talk with you instead of arguing. And don’t attack Manalo - that will immediately close off their ears to anything else you say (since he is their prophet). Filipinos have a very unique mindset. They are doggedly loyal, very trusting, very kind, very emotional, and very stubborn (I add “very” to everything because that is part of the Filipino trait of extravagance). I should know, because I married one . (DISCLAIMER: all characterizations of Filipinos are from my wife, not me ).

Blessings

 

[read_me]

I had an encounter with an INC pastor once. It’s kind of funny. As part of his “proof” against the Catholic Church, he pulled out this book (from a Catholic publishing company) which listed the apostolic succession of Rome, and he pointed out that to the right of the names of several of the earliest Popes, a question mark in parentheses is placed (all other Popes had the dates of their papacy next to their names in parentheses).

In a very sincere tone, he said to me while pointing to the question marks, “My friend, how can you belong to a Church who does not even know who their earliest leaders were?” I’m telling you, it can only have been the Holy Spirit who gave me the strength to not break down in raucous laughter in front of this gentleman. After taking a little time to make sure that I would not burst out laughing once I opened my mouth to speak (I’m sure he took my several-seconds silence to mean I was actually taking his argument seriously), I calmly said to him. “Really? Since all the other names have the dates of their episcopate in parentheses, doesn’t the question mark in parentheses only mean that we are unsure of those dates, not that we don’t know who were our first bishops?” You had to see the look on his face. It literally looked like the rug was pulled out from under him.

Folks, that’s the kind of “logic” you will face when speaking to members of INC. There’s nothing intellectually satisfying or rational about their religion, so it is very difficult to actually reason with them. INC is attractive to Filipinos for only two reasons - (1) it appeals to the nationalistic spirit of Filipinos (being a cult started in the Philippines is a huge selling point), (2) they know how to put on a show (flairy sermons and big, ornate churches), which appeals to the Filipino appreciation for extravagance and beauty. Don’t argue scripture with them. It would be fruitless because they don’t believe in the Bible that all other Christians possess, but have their own twisted version. What you need to do is appeal to the Filipino sense of fairness and emotion (but avoid ad hominems). Invite them to read or talk with you instead of arguing. And don’t attack Manalo - that will immediately close off their ears to anything else you say (since he is their prophet). Filipinos have a very unique mindset. They are doggedly loyal, very trusting, very kind, very emotional, and very stubborn (I add “very” to everything because that is part of the Filipino trait of extravagance). I should know, because I married one . (DISCLAIMER: all characterizations of Filipinos are from my wife, not me ).

Blessings

And Mr… is 1=100? haha not all the characters of being a filipino will be in your wife because even she is a filipino, she had differences with any other. and what an opinion! Does the INC dont believe in the bible? well, i am not surprise with that because mostly the catholics just have opinions kept in their mind and use to attack the INC. well, is that made you happy, to invent stories with a great effort just to attack INC’s? I dont believe that you had been in a minister because all you have said is not ones of the doctrines of the INC or whatever, but only your propaganda… Gudlock with that! if that makes you glad. (and that’s whats a devil’s feeling.) haha

 

[read_me]

you sure?

what I know is, it’s still growing despite the attacks of the devil. Just what Jesus promised that the gates of hell shall not prevail against His church.

where did you get your facts again?

And how you know that they are increasing in numbers? how about looking back the history? Like in the many years ago, compare its population to now so you may know.

 

[M_catholic]

And how you know that they are increasing in numbers? how about looking back the history? Like in the many years ago, compare its population to now so you may know.

you really want to discuss numbers now?

are you blind?just to give you an example, during the wake of the Late Pope John Paul II and the election of Pope Benedict. How many did you see flock the vatican?

start counting mr. readme…

 

[M_catholic]

and BTW, jesus promised He will not let Hell prevail over His church. so your issue of apostasy?

I think you are making Jesus a Liar now if your saying His church turn back against him.

 

[tscotom]

FYI,

the INK head Erano Manalo has passed from this life. Now he knows the TRUTH.

My friend who is a convert from INK to Catholicism has told me that the internal tension w/in the INK is that of ‘succession.’

If I understand it right, it says no where in any bible (and the INK use many bibles including
many ‘paraphrased bibles’ such as the Lamsa translation) that the ‘Sugo’ or head/Prophet of the INK has to be a family member of the original Felix Ysagun (Manalo).

Thus, there are senior INK pastors who are ‘quietly’ militating against the succession of the son Eduardo (“EddieBoy”) as the new ‘Sugo.’

From what I’ve learned, the INK is a very organised, secretive group and it’s members are very ‘orthodox’ because they are constantly monitored in all their INK activities. Shades of the Orwellian ‘Big Brother.’ Furthermore, as an incentive, all INK are taken cared of from ‘cradle to grave,’ that is, as long as they conform.

Thus this so-called ‘New INK’ faction will surely continue on it’s advocacy and many believe that an internal split will likely occur and the recent death of their ‘Sugo’ (Erano Manalo) will add to it.

President Arroyo (a Catholic) has declared this coming Monday as a national day of prayer for the repose of the soul of Mr. Manalo despite the historical rabid anti-Catholicism of the INK, … indeed, a very generous, Christian/Catholic thing to do !!!

Cheers and God bless,

 

[Milliardo]

President Arroyo (a Catholic) has declared this coming Monday as a national day of prayer for the repose of the soul of Mr. Manalo despite the historical rabid anti-Catholicism of the INK, … indeed, a very generous, Christian/Catholic thing to do !!!

Cheers and God bless,

Our spineless, sycophantic politicians troop to Central to give Eraneo Manalo respects, when he in his life never respected their beliefs. Why then should he be given the respect he never deserved? It’s only because of the votes that these spineless politicians of ours go there. Shame on them for that, especially for those politicians who call themselves Catholic and Christian. Let them who are dead bury their dead.

 

[tscotom]

Greetings Milliardo,

As true Christians, when it comes to these ‘spiritual basics’ it is better to err on the side of Christian civility. In this regard, ‘turning the other cheek’ is better than ‘an eye for an eye.’
That is the Old Testament being perfected in the New Testament !!!

Sure those ‘trapos’ (inveterate politicians) are there for votes and indeed they will ultimately get their due, but that is for another spiritual level, and in the Lord’s hands.

Cheers and God bless,

 

[read_me]

you really want to discuss numbers now?

are you blind?just to give you an example, during the wake of the Late Pope John Paul II and the election of Pope Benedict. How many did you see flock the vatican?

start counting mr. readme…

No. i am not saying about the exact or the true numbers of membership in the catholic church. the one that i want to point out is that they are decreasing because they are joining another religion and whatsoever.

why will i count for that? the true church doesnt need to be more in number… you should not forget that