Iglesia Ni Cristo

[choy]

one more issue i have against the INC, is why do some call them Christians? yes, they base their faith on the teachings of Jesus (per their own interpretations) but shouldn’t Christians at the very least accept the divinity of Jesus?

 

[ferdie]

**i agree with your whole statement except for the last part

as followers of Christ, we should uplift the poor and help the needy. it is our job and obligation to do so**

and as for the topic, does the INC not make this matter worse with the block voting? because they can deliver about 1.5 million votes nationwide every election, they make themselves the targets of these greedy politicians. but on the other side of the coin, perhaps the leaders of the INC also use this perceived influence to get political favors.

The prime duty of the Government is to serve and protect the people, but like you said it is our job also as followers of Christ.

 

[ferdie]

one more issue i have against the INC, is why do some call them Christians? yes, they base their faith on the teachings of Jesus (per their own interpretations) but shouldn’t Christians at the very least accept the divinity of Jesus?

Well I consider them Christians since they believe in Jesus Christ, even though they have a distorted belief in basic Christian Doctrines.

 

[choy]

The prime duty of the Government is to serve and protect the people, but like you said it is our job also as followers of Christ.

i agree but as we have found out the truth to be, you can’t depend on the government for anything.

God bless the charities for without them, the poor would suffer more

 

[Milliardo]

Greetings Milliardo,

As true Christians, when it comes to these ‘spiritual basics’ it is better to err on the side of Christian civility. In this regard, ‘turning the other cheek’ is better than ‘an eye for an eye.’
That is the Old Testament being perfected in the New Testament !!!

Well, I’m on a more practical level–they don’t accord us any respect, then they don’t deserve any respect either. It’s basic courtesy–respect should be earned, and here they are asking people to respect their leader’s passing. Did they respect Catholics when Pope John Paul II died? Since they did not, and even ridiculed Catholics, then they should not be given any more importance nor respect. Until they learn to do so, then respect isn’t forthcoming to them.

 

[choy]

no, we should pray for them even if they throw verbal stones at us, the same way the early Christians prayed for all those who persecute them

“Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

“Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

—Matthew 5:10-12

if we hate them in return, then we do not show them what true Christianity is all about. we should take pity on them that their whole belief system is based upon proving other religions wrong.

if we do wish to bring them back to the fold, then let us follow the examples of the early Christians who despite the persecution, showed love and compassion to the Romans and eventually won them over.

 

[tscotom]

Choy, Milliardo,

an excerpt from “In Conversation w/God” by Fr. Francis Fernandez:

…
If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. And if you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you?.. Even sinners lend to sinners, to receive as much again (Luke 6:32-34). Charity must embrace all men: it should not be extended only to those who do good to us, since then the help of grace would be unnecessary. Even pagans love those who love them. The deeds of a Christian must not only be humanly good and exemplary, but be generously inspired by the love of God in order to make them supernaturally meritorious.
…

Cheers and God bless,

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Well, I’m on a more practical level–they don’t accord us any respect, then they don’t deserve any respect either. It’s basic courtesy–respect should be earned, and here they are asking people to respect their leader’s passing. Did they respect Catholics when Pope John Paul II died? Since they did not, and even ridiculed Catholics, then they should not be given any more importance nor respect. Until they learn to do so, then respect isn’t forthcoming to them.

Yeah I agree that this was a really cheap tactic on part of the politicians. Then again, what do you expect from our oh so wonderful government?

That’s why, like I said, I don’t vote. Hopefully that’ll come as a consolation to you man. I’ve read enough about this country’s history to say putting faith in the government is like putting faith in Juan Tamad to bring home crabs.

 

[choy]

sadly Manalo knew how to get the government’s support by brainwashing his followers under the guise of “unity”. this makes them a strong political power even if they are a small religion, smaller than even most Protestant churches in the Philippines. because the INC can deliver a guaranteed number of votes to a candidate, it surely is a sad state of Philippine politics

now i wonder and i hope someone can answer this. do INC also practice block voting here in North America? if truly their reason for a single vote is unity within their church, they would surely still vote for a chosen candidate even though they do not get the same political favors they get in the Philippines.

 

[tscotom]

Some pundits say that the bloc voting of the INK is a myth for if it was that strong, then they’d have elected many congressmen or even senators to the legislature.

Even in past elections, many candidates w/the so-called INK imprimatur did not win.

An INK convert (to Catholicism) friend of mine told me that their favourite tactic to mask their bloc voting weakness and spin it into a ‘strength,’ is this.

They do a little (stealth) research w/o saying that it is initiated by the INK, (they say it is a survey conducted by the U.P. Dept of Political Science or something like that) beforehand. They take the results of these surveys and choose the candidate scoring the highest and make him their official candidate. As simple as that, he said, and he ought to know because he participated in such surveys.

There are many anecdotes I can tell you about the INK and it’s failings. Let me just end this w/ the saying “All that glitters is not gold…” … “Beautiful on the outside, rotten on the inside…”

Live Jesus in our Hearts, FOREVER.

 

[4Squarebaby]

sadly Manalo knew how to get the government’s support by brainwashing his followers under the guise of “unity”. this makes them a strong political power even if they are a small religion, smaller than even most Protestant churches in the Philippines. because the INC can deliver a guaranteed number of votes to a candidate, it surely is a sad state of Philippine politics

now i wonder and i hope someone can answer this. do INC also practice block voting here in North America? if truly their reason for a single vote is unity within their church, they would surely still vote for a chosen candidate even though they do not get the same political favors they get in the Philippines.

I was under the impression that the INC was the third largest faith in the Philippines after Sunni Muslims and before the Anglicans of the Philippines. At about 2.3 % of the population. All other “born agains” are such a small part of the population that you are more likely to run across a tomboy or ladyman then any specific protestant church member.

If they do practice bloc voting in North America there are only a few cities where the Filipino population is dense enough that any notice will be taken. And then they have to vote differently from most “Asians” or at least Filipinos for American politicians to notice them and make promises to INC elders. Their bloc is not powerful enough. Its not like President Obama going in with a guareenteed bloc of the Black vote giving him a 10% headstart in any election.

 

[choy]

i know that is why i wonder if they do block voting in the US or Canada given that they don’t get political favors like in the Philippines

you may be right that if you look at the denomination numbers that INC may be more than any one particular Protestant church. although i do not discount the possibility that there may be more members in a particular Protestant church than INC as many Filipinos are disillusioned with the Catholic Church in the Philippines

 

[4Squarebaby]

i know that is why i wonder if they do block voting in the US or Canada given that they don’t get political favors like in the Philippines

you may be right that if you look at the denomination numbers that INC may be more than any one particular Protestant church. although i do not discount the possibility that there may be more members in a particular Protestant church than INC as many Filipinos are disillusioned with the Catholic Church in the Philippines

US politicians can only get in trouble by being linked to a particular church. Either for following the church doctrines or being accused of hyprocrisy because they don’t follow them. US voters more so then Canadians only ask that their candidates believe in God. Promises to a micro minority like INC would lose more votes then the INC can prmise with their bloc.

 

[choy]

so given that, would INC still vote for one candidate or party in North America?

i just want to see if this is practiced consistently as an act of their faith, or if they’re just making a sorry excuse in the Philippines that its part of their spiritual unity when it fact its just a guise for eliciting political favors from politicians back home

 

[jamil_joseph02]

so this is just another thread for INC again?

 

[choy]

guess so, there`s like 3 or 4 around here. probably more if you look at older threads

 

[read_me]

now, Let me ask you, How do you know? prove to it that there is a really a huge percentage.

come on now, The CC has already encountered may heresies in the past. (that includes arian teaching) but the Church remained strong up to the present.

hehe i think you dont understand my point… and yes. CC encountered many many whatsoever in the past, but the question is, after the death of the apostles, is the 1st century christians same as the catholic church??? how about the teachings, almost all only showed in the 4th century isnt it? after the next church administration took place…

 

[read_me]

Please bear with me,
I will try to understand your post and you will find my comments and clarifications in italics in parentheses.

read me posted:

At first, it is clearly that you are an unschooled one, right?
(Firstly, it appears that you are mis-informed.)

at the first place, Ka erdy had been passed away, so please respect him
(In the first place, Ka Erdie has passed away, so please respect him)
read me, may I say that I was just stating a fact, that when we pass from this earth, we will/have to know the Truth of our past life. I say this because eventually we either go to Heaven or hell and it would be absurd if we didn’t know the Truth by then !!)

as a person, and take away first the issues or talks related to him especially about religion! and please, dont adds up conclusions or whatever why he died, he died because of cardiac arrest and it is not related to religion! and he not died because “he knows the truth”?
(Gee, I am at a loss here, I take it you think it is inappropriate for me to take issue here with regard to your religion ?? To be honest, the bulk of what I’ve posted here re: the coming succession problems of the INK comes from one of your former members who is now a Catholic and a good friend of mine. I also did a little research on the ‘New INK movement’ w/in the INK !! )

HUH? he is also a person, a human. and CAN suffer death! Like you, you will be die also, we, i and everyone.
(Sorry read me, I think you really misunderstand me. I agree we, you and I [including Ka Erdie, may God rest his soul] are all mortal, we will all die.)

And FYI, the one you are saying “sugo” or god’s messenger is Ka felix manalo and not ka erano and even ka eduardo! they are just caring and leading for the goodness of the church.
(Thank you for the clarification read me, you are saying that it is ONLY Ka Felix Ysagun (Manalo) that is the ‘Sugo’ or God’s Messenger, not his son Ka Erdie, nor his grandson EddieBoy.)
my question is, can the INK be lead by a non-Manalo ??

And yes! INC TAKES CARE OF THE MEMBERS, because the INC believes the IMPORTANCE of the worship services not like your church, that the priest or your church administration doesnt care about others or the catholics!
(Understood ! The INK believes in the importance of (INK) worship services unlike the
Catholic hierarchy/priests who do not care about others or the [their] Catholic faithful.)
(May I add a rejoinder to this, You sir may know about the INK, but may I say that you do not know what you are talking about re: Catholicism)

that they are not giving importance to the worship services for GOD, they just attend when they want and when an special occassion comes like christmass, and etc. NOTICED IT? haha

(that they (Catholics) do not give importance to the worship services for God, they just attend (Mass) when they want and during special occasions like Christmas etc., do you
get it ?? haha)
(My comments here are quite simple, all that a good Catholic is supposed to know, believe and do is found in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. No one is forced to do anything in our Church, we have free-will to either practice [Catholic] virtue and avoid [human] vice.
Unlike the INK, we are not segregated male & female; we do not have to tithe 10% or more and stuff the money in a white envelop and process to place it in a big ‘donation box’ in the centre of your temple under the watchful eye of your pastors; or punch in [using a bundy clock] your attendance on Thursdays…all these are not biblical but then again I wish not to get into a biblical argument…

So read me, I trust you will understand my comments/clarifications thus far, in case you need further enlightenment, please feel free…

Cheers and God (the Triune God) bless,

Ok. thank you for translating my post to a better english (haha^_^) But whatever you say, whatever kind of explanation you give about what you say about ka erdy… That he died because now he knows the truth? anyone read this will understand the meaning of that. That he died because the INC is not the true church and whatever? hmmp.
And yes. the catholics always say that the CC give the FREEDOM, freedom to all you want to do! even bad doings. If the catholic church is the true church, they will have concern to the members! and even force the members to attend the mass, so? But it is for the goodness of the members, it is for the members will do the will of god, the commandments of god! dont you get it? whats wrong if you were forced to do GOOD things? (even the fact that the INC dont force the members to attend worship services, but to remind that worship services are important and some others…because it is one of the commandments of god!)

and thats how catholics have wrongness in understanding the freedom! Like they will say that INC bloc as vote because the church administration does not want to give freedom to the members, is it true?? The INC does not force anyone to join the INC, so, in the doctrinal lessons before baptizing, all of the doctrines taught by the minister must accept wholeheartedly by the one who is joining the INC. And one of the doctrine is about the UNITY inside the church, so, is the members forced to vote as what the administration endorses or selected? …NO!

and about the 10% tithing? hello! i think the one who had that doctrine is the LDA not the INC. because in the bible it says about one must give wholeheartedly not to force to give. Nonmembers are just amazed because the fact that INC members are composed of poor members, the INC construct beautiful and big houses of worship. Thats why they accuse INC about the 10% tithing… And about separating male to female? it is just one of the discipline and orderliness in the church. Not in the catholic church, the fact that because males and females are joined together, when mass comes, it is very noisy inside. and i have watched an investigatory show called IMBESTIGADOR about what teens and even couples does INSIDE THE COMPOUND of the CC. some have doing some “miracles” like kissing and etc. they did not respect the holiness of the church! what the…

 

[read_me]

praying for someone is fine. The government declaring a national day of mourning because it believes the son who will become the next Executive minister will deliver as a bloc 6% of the vote to their party is something else.

owws? is that true? haha whoever that DESERVED to be it must have it.like cory aquino that almost all says that she must be national “hero” because of what he contibuted to the country. and why not Ka erdy? who made the members into the righteousness… and made some works that must be a good example to other leader. Ka erdy we can see that he is a very simple person but powerful like what the people in an interview says. The one who does not deserve anything is you! because you just accuse someone and even do not respect to one who already died! I think you not learned from your teachers about respecting other people!

 

[read_me]

i agree with your whole statement except for the last part

as followers of Christ, we should uplift the poor and help the needy. it is our job and obligation to do so

and as for the topic, does the INC not make this matter worse with the block voting? because they can deliver about 1.5 million votes nationwide every election, they make themselves the targets of these greedy politicians. but on the other side of the coin, perhaps the leaders of the INC also use this perceived influence to get political favors.

huh? the question is what can INC will get if for exam. this politician will be voted? MONEY?? for the church? oh come on! what i know who doing it is the Catholic church, even admits that they are getting money even from casino, gamblings , from politicians and some other… just to make and build a new chapel. i agree to you all politicians are greedy but not the INC. The one that does the bad things is the one WHO HAVE FREEDOM TO VOTE. why?? cant you see that politicians use them, give them money and others just to be voted? and thats how the advantage of bloc voting works, by not be influence by other politicians.