Illegal aliens murder 12 Americans daily

[hoosiertoo]

I have twice asked if there is any justification to discriminate against the children of illegal aliens from a Christian or Catholic point of view. Since no evidence has been forthcoming, can we at least admit that such lack of charity is un-Christlike and unbecoming a Catholic? If not, what is the reply?

If the law says they are citizens, then they are entitled to every protection of the law. Period.

If we amend the Constitution or otherwise change the law, then yes we can legally discriminate between children born to non-naturalized citizens and Americans. I think we should change the law.

One of my grandparentswas a naturalized citizen (from the Ukraine) and my wife is Hispanic. Her grandparents were also naturalized.

I know why they come and I do not object to their presence so long as they are here legally and they behave themselves. If and when they become naturalized citizens, I will welcome them and their children as such.

True charity would dictate that we insist the Central American governments do something about the state of affairs in their own countries and desist from depending on the US to do what they should be doing for their own citizens.

Build the fence.

Amend the laws on citzenship.

Offer guest visas to those already here. AFTER A REASONABLE TIME, deport those we find who do not have one. Deport those who should not be here (criminals, etc) immediately.

Offer permanent visas to those who qualify.

Let those who wish to become citizens do so when they have met the criteria.

Charity does not demand that we let everyone in who wants in. The Church does not give the Eucharist to every Tom, Pablo and Ivan that walks in the door. They are supposed to be one of us, and while we can and do welcome them, there is a process they have to go through to qualify as “one of us.”

You know - RCIA, baptism, confirmation and all that legalistic stuff?

And while we’re at it, “anchor baby” is a perfectly good term.

A “racist” is not someone who disagrees with you no matter what your relative skin colors.

There is a difference between “legal” and “illegal” immigration.

“Discrimination” is perfectly reasonable - it’s why you choose Chips Ahoy over Famous Amos - and is not synonymous with “racism.”

Your imperfect interpretation of Church teaching is not a bludgeon to be used in an argument over points of law and policy; I am no less Catholic because I may disagree with you.

Illegal immigrants are here. We need to treat them as human beings and take care of them as well as we are able and deport them as fast as is humanely practical if they do not deserve to be here.

 

[Ituyu]

Nah… if we actually had Border Security… those 12 daily Americans would still be alive.

Its not hate… its the truth.

Even the author of the article, who has an extreme ANTI IMMIGRANT agenda, does NOT offer it as the TRUTH. He offers it as an “ASSUMPTION”. He probably knows that the numbers are highly massaged, manipulated and unreliable. The flaws in the “study” were shown earlier in this thread. He says:

Twelve Americans are murdered every day by illegal aliens, according to statistics released by Rep. Steve King, R-Iowa.** If those numbers are correct**, it translates to 4,380 Americans murdered annually by illegal aliens. That’s 21,900 since Sept. 11, 2001

BUT. if the numbers are correct, the the “Foreign born” kill 12 Americans and the “Native born” kill 71 Americans, then we would save far more American lives by having a higher ratio of the foreign born as the “Native born” kill six times as many Americans.

 

[Ituyu]

Just saying that ppl using babies as anchor babies… the babies should be deported with the illegal parents. That way the family gets to stay together.

WHY? I thought that you’ve claim not to be ANTI Legal Immigrant. A baby born here is an American Citizen and that is as legal as one can be. Besides, how many babies have “legalized” their “illegal” parents?

 

[Karin]

WHY? I thought that you’ve claim not to be ANTI Legal Immigrant. A baby born here is an American Citizen and that is as legal as one can be. Besides, how many babies have “legalized” their “illegal” parents?

 

[jrabs]

BUT. if the numbers are correct, the the “Foreign born” kill 12 Americans and the “Native born” kill 71 Americans, then we would save far more American lives by having a higher ratio of the foreign born as the “Native born” kill six times as many Americans.

You’re logic made me smile - well laugh actually.

Regardless of the number of Americans killed by Illegals, we could be curbing the number of illegals entering the country and reducing the threat to American citizens.

If one of my loved ones were killed by someone here illegally, the death would be hard enough to bare, yet if it could have been prevented by supporting stronger borders - then why didn’t the government do what they could?

 

[Karin]

If one of my loved ones were killed by someone here illegally, the death would be hard enough to bare, yet if it could have been prevented by supporting stronger borders - then why didn’t the government do what they could?

That is the question jrabs…if the goverment has such issues with illegals they should make the borders stronger…since they do not make the borders stronger makes me think that the folks in our goverment know something that we dont or perhaps they do not view it as an issue!!!

 

[jrabs]

That is the question jrabs…if the goverment has such issues with illegals they should make the borders stronger…since they do not make the borders stronger makes me think that the folks in our goverment know something that we dont or perhaps they do not view it as an issue!!!

Exaclty. What is the REAL deal?

 

[Ituyu]

You’re logic made me smile - well laugh actually.

Then you got my drift.

It wasn’t MY logic I was using. I was simply using the same logic used by those who were interpretting the “statistics” used in the study as the “Truth”.

Regardless of the number of Americans killed by Illegals, we could be curbing the number of illegals entering the country and reducing the threat to American citizens.

If one of my loved ones were killed by someone here illegally, the death would be hard enough to bare, yet if it could have been prevented by supporting stronger borders - then why didn’t the government do what they could?

Your logic ddin’t make me laugh because it doesn’t follow that a persons legal status has a cause related relationship to homicides. It’s the same as saying, “if that person had not been born” then the homicide could have been prevented. Did the birth cause the homicide?

 

[jrabs]

Your logic didn’t make me laugh because it doesn’t follow that a persons legal status has a cause related relationship to homicides. It’s the same as saying, “if that person had not been born” then the homicide could have been prevented. Did the birth cause the homicide?

Has noting to do with birth - has everything to do with presence. Had the person been curbed at the border, then no death would have occurred. What is that a difficult concept to grasp? I just don’t get it.

One death attributed to an illegal is too many.

If someone is in a country illegally - then the immigration system is flawed. If volumes of illegals are in the US - the system is severely flawed.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

You’re logic made me smile - well laugh actually.

Regardless of the number of Americans killed by Illegals, we could be curbing the number of illegals entering the country and reducing the threat to American citizens.

What threat is that?

**If **one of my loved ones were **killed by **someone here illegally, the death would be hard enough to bare, yet if it could have been prevented by supporting stronger borders - then why didn’t the government do what they could?

Again if your loved one is killed by a what -white person- it would be less painful, and if the killer was say Native American it would even hurt less? explain it to me if the white person was on parole would that change your pain also?

 

[jrabs]

Your logic didn’t make me laugh because it doesn’t follow that a persons legal status has a cause related relationship to homicides. It’s the same as saying, “if that person had not been born” then the homicide could have been prevented. Did the birth cause the homicide?

You also add the twist of person’s birthright into the conversation. Everyone has the right to life. Everyone does not have the right to enter a country as they see fit and do as they please once they get here.

 

[jrabs]

What threat is that? Again if your loved one is killed by a what -white person- it would be less painful, and if the killer was say Native American it would even hurt less? explain it to me if the white person was on parole would that change your pain also?

Now why on earth would you bring up any color factor? Or race factor?
The issue is securing the borders from all people entering illegally. That encompasses a number of folks.

So I won’ t be playing your race game today. :tiphat:

 

[hoosiertoo]

What threat is that? Again if your loved one is killed by a what -white person- it would be less painful, and if the killer was say Native American it would even hurt less? explain it to me if the white person was on parole would that change your pain also?

Not the issue.

If the murder was done by an illegal alien whose presence was preventable given proper policing of the borders, then jrab has every right to feel let down by his government.

I note that jrab didn’t mention the race or ethnicity of the hypothetical killer.

The fact is that the illegal alien has no legal or moral right to be in this country to begin with.

 

[jrabs]

What threat is that?

So you are denying that crimes are committed by illegals?
And where are those facts?

What I am suggesting is that any crime committed by a person here illegally is too much crime. Period.
Had such person been stopped cold at the border by what ever means, then he/she would have had no near occasion to sin.

 

[jrabs]

I note that jrab didn’t mention the race or ethnicity of the hypothetical killer.

Hey thanks - I didn’t and am offended that such “card” was introduced.

 

[Ituyu]

Has noting to do with birth - has everything to do with presence. Had the person been curbed at the border, then no death would have occurred. What is that a difficult concept to grasp? I just don’t get it.

And, birth and presence aren’t related?

If the death were caused by an American, would you then say that we should have less Americans?

One death attributed to an illegal is too many.

 

[jrabs]

And, birth and presence aren’t related?
NO. How so. Paint that picture for me please. For we know that one can be here illegally.

 

[hoosiertoo]

If the death were caused by an American, would you then say that we should have less Americans?

At least one less.

I agree that the system needs to be reformed. We should have screened the people that are here and WE deprived ourselves of that capability. But, I don’t see why we should punish the innocent, as most “illegals” do not have a history of violent crimes, for the crimes of the guilty.

If there are 20,000,000 illegal aliens in this country, then by definition 20,000,000 crimes have been committed. There are no “innocent.”

 

[Ituyu]

Ituyu;1833332:

By definition, an illegal is NOT innocent.

But, “illegal” entry does not cause a homicide just like being American does not cause a homicide.

 

[jrabs]

jrabs;1833342:

But, “illegal” entry does not cause a homicide just like being American does not cause a homicide.

Who said it did?

But you make it sound as if people here illegally are innocent.
Crimes are committed by a number of unsavory folks. While I certainly want to curb all crime, why should Americans be exposed to crimes from people who should not even be here?