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Illegal immigrants are first 'mothers and fathers, sons and daughters,' says Archbishop Gomez
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MarisaJean
Guest
Thank you for bringing this to the Forum. I know there are so many different opinions on this topic but I think you hit it dead on. We are all children of God. God sees us know different than anyone else. I think as good Catholics we all need to remember this. It does not matter where you came from or how you got here, we are to love everyone… no matter what their walk of life is.
I pray on this topic daily and hope someday things will change
I pray on this topic daily and hope someday things will change
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Sailor_Kenshin
Guest
Love doesn’t mean enabling someone to break laws. In fact, it’s the opposite.
Why do you not want these people to have proper medical checks as they would if they immigrated? Is it all right with you if their diseases go unchecked or if they spread them to healthy people?
Yes. They are mothers, fathers, et cetera. And so deserving of going through proper channels.
If they are illegal they are NOT immigrants. Why deny them the proper channels? Why slap the face of all immigrants who got here the right way? Why flout the laws of our country?
Why do you not want these people to have proper medical checks as they would if they immigrated? Is it all right with you if their diseases go unchecked or if they spread them to healthy people?
Yes. They are mothers, fathers, et cetera. And so deserving of going through proper channels.
If they are illegal they are NOT immigrants. Why deny them the proper channels? Why slap the face of all immigrants who got here the right way? Why flout the laws of our country?
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Contarini
Guest
Because the people who oppose “amnesty” won’t let them be legalized.
No one supports illegal immigration. But the folks who claim to be so concerned about legality are blocking the most obvious way to deal with the illegality, which is to give illegal immigrants a path to citizenship and liberalize immigration laws to match the natural human needs that are driving immigration.
Isn’t it Catholic teaching that positive human law needs to conform to natural law, and that if it doesn’t it is not truly law at all?
It seems to me that a lot of “conservative” Catholics have bought into an essentially Protestant understanding of the paramount authority of the civil government–precisely the understanding that led to vicious persecution of Catholics in England.
Edwin
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MarisaJean
Guest
There are many things to think about here. It is not as easy as you think to come to the US. For us to go to other countried very easy, but do you know some people wait 6-10 years before they can even get a visa to come here? Some countries are easier than others but the fact of the matter is that they are here and they are humans. I am a health care professional and every single one of my patients are treated the exact same, rich or poor, papers or not. They are people and they need help. Who am I to say one patient is more important than another just because one is documented and one isn’t. They are sill someone’s mother or father, sister or brother, son or daughter, husband or wife. They are people and it is not my place to judge them! Does a priest judge them when they go to confession and say I’m sorry I am here illegally??? NO!!! They get absolution for breaking the law and know it is wrong. Many of them want to stay here in the US, the countries they come from are often very poor and dangerous, here they are free to speak, walk, and work. Why wouldn’t people want to come here? But the laws make it very hard to help these people. The fact of the matter is that yes there are many people here illegally but the fact is they are here and now we need to make some kind of reform to make it easier for them to stay. Once they are documented they will pay taxes and have options for insurance like the rest of us. You have to keep in mind there are many many children involved in this too. Kids didn’t ask to be brought here or born here but they are. How fair is it to live here your whole life not knowing any better and then be thrown back to a life in a 3rd world country? I just think people need to put themselves in other people shoes once in a while. People come here mainly for a better life for them and their family. I would do anything for my daughter…ANYTHING…even if it meant breaking the law! I am her mother and I would do anything in my power to provide and protect her and if that meant I wasn’t safe here and needed to go someplace else I would do it.
It’s like I said…people are people no matter what walk of life they come from. We are to reach out to those in need, help the poor and feed the hungry right??? What kind of catholics would we be to turn our back on people that needed us and that loved the Lord just because they didn’t have a piece of paper? However they got here is none of my business, my business is to help the poor, feed the hungry, care for the sick and do this all in God’s name. I’m sorry if you do not agree…but please think about how you act or do act towards these people because it will eventually catch up with YOU one day.
Praying for all those who are here with out documentation and praying more for those who do not feel like helping…
It’s like I said…people are people no matter what walk of life they come from. We are to reach out to those in need, help the poor and feed the hungry right??? What kind of catholics would we be to turn our back on people that needed us and that loved the Lord just because they didn’t have a piece of paper? However they got here is none of my business, my business is to help the poor, feed the hungry, care for the sick and do this all in God’s name. I’m sorry if you do not agree…but please think about how you act or do act towards these people because it will eventually catch up with YOU one day.
Praying for all those who are here with out documentation and praying more for those who do not feel like helping…
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Garyjohn2
Guest
I think it is a very well written statement, and it has much truth to it. Still, I am kind of on the fence with this issue. It’s true that every person has Christ in them, and we should treat them accordingly…but we should not encourage them breaking the law or continue to allow them to do to so (by turning a blind eye, or whatever).
Immigrants DO have a path to citizenship…it’s just that most choose to ignore that path. I don’t think that we should have an immigration reform policy just to change the laws so that less people are breaking the law and more people can come in. That is not a good reason. I think we should have immigration reform policy that is in the best common interest of the people of the United States and the future people of the United States (the immigrants.) I don’t know what that policy reform would look like.
I do agree with the statement that immigration is not a problem, but an opportunity. I think it’s important to note that. However, illegal immigration is a problem. I don’t know if just legalizing all of it (or practically legalizing all immigration to make it easier) would hurt or help!
I think we should look at the existing immigration laws and see why they are there. There is obviously a reason they were created. Was it for economic reasons, safety reasons, or racist/xenophobic reasons? Are they outdated, or are they still serving an important purpose?
If we make immigration much easier (ie, an easier path to citizenship), and it ends up hurting the economy, then we would actually be doing the immigrants a disservice by weakening their new home. Then again, perhaps it would strengthen the economy and the reform is not happening for other reasons. I don’t know the answers to my hypothetical questions above, but it’s worth thinking about!
Immigrants DO have a path to citizenship…it’s just that most choose to ignore that path. I don’t think that we should have an immigration reform policy just to change the laws so that less people are breaking the law and more people can come in. That is not a good reason. I think we should have immigration reform policy that is in the best common interest of the people of the United States and the future people of the United States (the immigrants.) I don’t know what that policy reform would look like.
I do agree with the statement that immigration is not a problem, but an opportunity. I think it’s important to note that. However, illegal immigration is a problem. I don’t know if just legalizing all of it (or practically legalizing all immigration to make it easier) would hurt or help!
I think we should look at the existing immigration laws and see why they are there. There is obviously a reason they were created. Was it for economic reasons, safety reasons, or racist/xenophobic reasons? Are they outdated, or are they still serving an important purpose?
If we make immigration much easier (ie, an easier path to citizenship), and it ends up hurting the economy, then we would actually be doing the immigrants a disservice by weakening their new home. Then again, perhaps it would strengthen the economy and the reform is not happening for other reasons. I don’t know the answers to my hypothetical questions above, but it’s worth thinking about!
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Seamus_L
Guest
And the millions of unemployed or under employed Americans who pay taxes and who are descending deeper into poverty are also first fathers, mothers, sons and daughters.
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Inquiringperson
Guest
The problem is, many can’t afford it.
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Garyjohn2
Guest
I just looked it up, on a surface level, and it can cost upwards of $1,500 from start to finish! Personally, I think that cost should be drastically reduced. Anyone should be ably to apply for citizenship, rich or poor.
Then again, I’d have to ask the reasoning behind all the fees. Do they serve a twisted purpose like keeping poorer people out? Or does it serve a noble purpose like funding the immigration offices without having to raise taxes for everyone else? Or maybe they serve a different purpose all together?
Depending on the answer to that, we’d know if it should be changed.
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Orogeny
Guest
Many illegal immigrants pay more than $2,000 to smugglers to get them here.
“Josiah Heyman, a border expert at the University of Texas-El Paso, said that “economic conditions of the U.S. affect migration. Word gets back to Mexico really fast what the job opportunities are or are not,” Heyman said. “It’s possible we’ve crossed some threshold where it’s risky and expensive to try to get to the U.S. (illegally) so it’s beginning to discourage people.” Illegal migrants often pay a smuggler about $2,000, Heyman said.”
usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-12-28-bordercrossings_N.htm
That was in 2008.
$1,500 sounds like a bargain to me.
Peace
Tim
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Elizabeth502
Guest
Indeed. And many of these were already deep into poverty prior to having to compete even more in certain blue-collar industries, due to large population centers of unauthorized immigrants. This is an inconvenient but critical moral (Catholic) fact that the good archbishop is not addressing. All Americans are rich (or with adequate resources), and all immigrants are poor, is a myth from decades ago. It wasn’t even true then; it is particularly untrue now. Anyone who disbelieves that lives in a mental or physical bubble.
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TevereNauta
Guest
Hopping on my soap box here…personally, I believe Hispanic immigration is how the Lord intends to keep Christianity and specifically Catholicism alive in America, given that the ‘natives’ are growing ever more secular and debauched to boot. Of course, the demons we know well are seeking to tear these devout people from their faith, exhibit the recent trash ‘poll’ in this forum. Still, I for one welcome the influx of these Faithful and God-fearing people, may they be the leaven which helps Mother Church grow ever stronger in America. Also, on another note, this points to the fact that, long-term- Protestantism is on the way out–demographically speaking–worldwide, while the Church is set to continue growth. In 100 years, if we can resist the maniacal secularists, America could be a devoutly Catholic country.
Which explains why the demons and the secularist front groups latch on to any attack against the Church they can, they know they are doomed. So God Bless the Latino immigrants, and may they find work and dignity in the USA!
Which explains why the demons and the secularist front groups latch on to any attack against the Church they can, they know they are doomed. So God Bless the Latino immigrants, and may they find work and dignity in the USA!
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Elizabeth502
Guest
[bolding mine]
Then your “belief” is hardly in keeping with trends, which are two among Hispanic immigrants: growing preference for evangelical Protestantism (a trend that has been continuing for some time), and abandonment of the practice of Catholicism, in terms of sexual practices (cohabitation, contraception, abortion) and in terms of Church laws such as Mass observance, etc.
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TevereNauta
Guest
Not to detract from the OP (sorry if I am)–Elizabeth, might I ask for some sources for those claims of yours mam?
Not that I disbelieve them, in terms of perhaps a minority quotient re immigrants (i.e. a ‘growing preference’ might be from 1 to 2%, which would hardly negate my ‘belief’ as you put it re Protestantism) and ABC (there, I am more inclined to believe immigrants fall prey to our culture of death). From what these little eyes have seen (I live in Southern California) the great, great majority of Hispanic immigrants are both Catholic and orthodox, neither of which can be said for the majority Anglo population.
Not that I disbelieve them, in terms of perhaps a minority quotient re immigrants (i.e. a ‘growing preference’ might be from 1 to 2%, which would hardly negate my ‘belief’ as you put it re Protestantism) and ABC (there, I am more inclined to believe immigrants fall prey to our culture of death). From what these little eyes have seen (I live in Southern California) the great, great majority of Hispanic immigrants are both Catholic and orthodox, neither of which can be said for the majority Anglo population.
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Blacksword
Guest
Immigrants of the kind typically here without lawful status do NOT have a ready way to citizenship. I’m an immigration attorney, trust me on this. The economy needs several million manual labor jobs in seasonal work such as agriculture, poultry processing plants, in elderly care, and other such sectors that, despite the unemployment figures, most Americans won’t do. There is no viable nonimmigrant working visa for such jobs, and there is no way for immigrant visas to really be processed for such jobs in employment-based visa categories either. That’s why the laws need reform, they are dysfunctional and serve neither the American economy and our labor needs, nor the foreign nationals attempting to contribute. The H-2B visa is an unworkable mess for the most part, and only has a 66,000 annual cap, yet is the only nonimmigrant visa for seasonal unskilled work. We need reform.
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Blacksword
Guest
This is not the fault of unauthorized workers, who also pay billions a year in taxes, and contribute billions more to social security.
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Blacksword
Guest
Please understand that you cannot just file for citizenship and obtain it. That’s not how the immigration laws work. A foreign national must have immigrant visa sponsorship through family (which often means a twenty plus year backlog) or employment, generally speaking. The employment based sponsorship is a multi-year, three stage process than can cost around $8,000 and is functionally only available to educated professionals, not unskilled workers. This is to get a green card as lawful permanent resident alien, and then a five year wait again for naturalization eligibility.
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Blacksword
Guest
Sure, educated professional foreign nationals coming to the U.S. aren’t poor usually, but they also aren’t coming without inspection or residing here without status usually, and aren’t taking blue collar labor intensive jobs.
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Garyjohn2
Guest
An immigration attorney! That means you must have some experience, and I am glad you joined the conversation.
(I can see how someone make take this as sarcasm, but I am completely serious).I think your post makes a lot of sense, but I’m not sure if most illegal immigrants are seasonal workers, and I’m not sure what what you mean by “kind typically here without lawful status.” The estimated amounts of illegal immigrants in the US ranges from 7-20 million, so if these are mostly seasonal workers and are typically here to help with the harvest, then we should already be all set, with no more workers in demand! But they keep coming!
I’m not that familiar with the specific process it takes to become a citizen, or a lawful alien worker, but it seems you are, and I believe you. The system you describe does sound a little broken. Why would there be a cap of 66,000, yet millions are needed? We’d have to figure out the pros and cons of this policy. The cons you have listed…there are not enough workers. There must have been a reason the policy was put in place though, because no policy is put in place for no reason, right? (well some are…but I don’t think this one.) It is possible the policy was made in like 1848 when 66,000 people was a lot, but I’m not so sure. I don’t know the pros to such a limiting policy, but I’d like to hear what the proponents claim they are in order to make a balanced judgement.
Also, what is the alternative? Do you know of any countries with more lax immigration policies that have had a large influx of immigrants and have benefitted from such? These cases would be very useful to take a look at and emulate! I can’t think of any off hand, but perhaps you can because you work in the field?
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garysibio
Guest
It’s an opportunity when they come in legally; it’s a problem when they don’t. By definition illegal aliens are lawbreakers who have cheated their fellow countrymen who have the integrity to do things the correct way. For an archbishop to defend them is a scandal.
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