Illegal immigrants are first 'mothers and fathers, sons and daughters,' says Archbishop Gomez

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We do need immigration reform. All of the points that I have mentioned need to be addressed and there is much more that the American people are not being told by our government. Most of it is because our own government does not know. The INS answers to two agencies: Dept of Justice and the State Dept. These two answer to the President, not to the Congress or to the people of the USA. We can’t be sure what our legislators are told. They cannot enact good immigration laws, when they don’t have the entire picture. The bishop is right. Until the law is fixed, we have to treat the hard working poor for what they are, our brothers and sisters. To be a criminal, one must violate a legitimate law. We need to begin to think like Catholics first and Americans second. Otherwise, we are no different than the Church of England and German Lutheranism.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
Much of your comments are fairly spot on. A few points though:

There is no INS anymore, it’s now US Citizenship and Immigration Services under the Department of Homeland Security.

Regarding visas, the family ones are of course issued only when the priority date becomes current to rhat foreign national, which often is more than twenty years from the time it was actually filed on their behalf by a relative in the US.

Also, for immigrant visas, there is certainly a criminal background check, persons must have police clearance certificates from every jurisdiction in which they have resided since age 14 (I believe it’s 14, could be 16, can’t remember everything off the top of my head!), and there are fingerprinting done to check against databases. There are also biometrics taken for people applying for nonimmigrant visas, so if someone has been arrested and convicted of any number of many different crimes considered to be crimes involving moral turpitude or aggravated felonies, they aren’t getting in. However, good criminals are often not convicted ultimately of anything, and check the ultimate source of money a person has is beyond Consular capabilities, so there is some truth to your sentiments here too. Just wanted to make those points. Our Consulates generally are very horrible to people applying for a visa, yes.
 
TevereNauta;8208952:
Hopping on my soap box here…personally, I believe Hispanic immigration is how the Lord intends to keep Christianity and specifically Catholicism alive in America, given that the ‘natives’ are growing ever more secular and debauched to boot.

might I ask for some sources for those claims of yours mam?
Then your “belief” is hardly in keeping with trends, which are two among Hispanic immigrants: growing preference for evangelical Protestantism (a trend that has been continuing for some time), and abandonment of the practice of Catholicism, in terms of sexual practices (cohabitation, contraception, abortion) and in terms of Church laws such as Mass observance, etc.
Elizabeth is correct – there are even several claims of Hispanics converting to Islam.

ad2000.com.au/articles/2009/may2009p8_3032.html

hispanic5.com/more_hispanics_leaving_catholicism_for_evangelical_protestantism.htm

hispanic.cc/hispanics_leaving_catholic_church_and_without_hispanics,_catholic_church_will_come_to_an_end.htm

Because this issue is so political, however, you’ll be able to find reports to the contrary – one being on the USCCB webpage.

Personally, l think that to suggest that a certain race of people are more religious or committed to their belief than others just doesn’t make sense. Our Mass attendance is decreasing and disregard for the sacraments is happening from a lack of faith and poor catechesis and this transcends any ethnic boundaries. Which makes me wonder why, that despite enormous amounts of money being directed toward Hispanic ministries we still see an influx to other religions.
 
Until the law is fixed, we have to treat the hard working poor for what they are, our brothers and sisters.
That’s fine, Brother. But the working poor include many more residing in this country than simply immigrants of any origin, of all origins, and of undocumented status. When I see injustice being committed at the expense of other particular poor people (in the distribution of social services which all poor people need), it’s my responsibility to speak up, to make others aware in my sphere of influence, and to try to redress those injustices (also “until the law is fixed”). And unfortunately the bishops conveniently don’t notice, apparently, such injustices being committed, or they don’t believe those injustices are occurring, which is unfortunate if they have not informed themselves.

At my Particular Judgment, Jesus won’t be bringing along stacks of regulations and laws. He will already have “the whole picture.” He’ll have my personal data in front of Him, which is all He needs. He’ll ask me what I did to relieve the suffering of all of my brothers and sisters when I knew of it, not just from the most visible class of brothers and sisters from one hemisphere of the globe, but the less visible poor as well. And if I participated in preferring the migrant poor at the expense of the non-migrant poor, somehow I don’t think that will wash with Him. 😉
 
Our Mass attendance is decreasing and disregard for the sacraments is happening from a lack of faith and poor catechesis and this transcends any ethnic boundaries.
Amen, sister. All boundaries indeed. And by the way, until catechesis becomes Priority One in the Church, this is going to continue to happen. The current so-called efforts are lame and insufficient; it may happen with such token efforts, but extremely slowly at this rate.

And thanks for those links, Tigg.
 
There is no INS anymore, it’s now US Citizenship and Immigration Services under the Department of Homeland Security.

Regarding visas, the family ones are of course issued only when the priority date becomes current to rhat foreign national, which often is more than twenty years from the time it was actually filed on their behalf by a relative in the US.

Also, for immigrant visas, there is certainly a criminal background check, persons must have police clearance certificates from every jurisdiction in which they have resided since age 14 (I believe it’s 14, could be 16, can’t remember everything off the top of my head!), and there are fingerprinting done to check against databases. There are also biometrics taken for people applying for nonimmigrant visas, so if someone has been arrested and convicted of any number of many different crimes considered to be crimes involving moral turpitude or aggravated felonies, they aren’t getting in. However, good criminals are often not convicted ultimately of anything, and check the ultimate source of money a person has is beyond Consular capabilities, so there is some truth to your sentiments here too. Just wanted to make those points. Our Consulates generally are very horrible to people applying for a visa, yes.
I didn’t know about the change in name. Thanks for that data. Whatever they call it, it’s the same people and they still do an very poor job.

As to police records, that must be a farily new thing, probably less than 10 years. Because we have had brothers go back and forth without this. The last one was in 2000. That’s usually worthless, because in most countries you can buy a police report.

Checking the ultimate source of money is not always beyond consular capabilities. There are people who are known thieves. A president who steals 30 million is not a secret.
 
That’s fine, Brother. But the working poor include many more residing in this country than simply immigrants of any origin, of all origins, and of undocumented status. When I see injustice being committed at the expense of other particular poor people (in the distribution of social services which all poor people need), it’s my responsibility to speak up, to make others aware in my sphere of influence, and to try to redress those injustices (also “until the law is fixed”). And unfortunately the bishops conveniently don’t notice, apparently, such injustices being committed, or they don’t believe those injustices are occurring, which is unfortunate if they have not informed themselves.

At my Particular Judgment, Jesus won’t be bringing along stacks of regulations and laws. He will already have “the whole picture.” He’ll have my personal data in front of Him, which is all He needs. He’ll ask me what I did to relieve the suffering of all of my brothers and sisters when I knew of it, not just from the most visible class of brothers and sisters from one hemisphere of the globe, but the less visible poor as well. And if I participated in preferring the migrant poor at the expense of the non-migrant poor, somehow I don’t think that will wash with Him. 😉
You are mistaken on one point. The Catholic Church, especially the religious orders, have done and do a great deal for the poor in this country and aborad, regardless of where they come from. What the bishop is asking for is equity for the poor and what he’s counting on is Catholics, all of us, lay, religious and clergy to come to the aid of the poor, the immigrant and the national. The national cannot be given preference over the immigrant. St. Francis told us that this was immoral. St. Vincent de Paul repeated it. St. John Bosco again said the same thing. Bl. Mother Teresa told us again as did Bl. John Paul II. How many times do we need to hear that this distinction between our poor and the immigrant poor is immoral?

Christ does look at us with a dosier. He does not justify distinctions between the poor anymore than the justified distinctions between the Jews and Gentiles. As Catholics, we have to serve all of them.

As Bl. John Paul said in Baltimore, the American Catholic will be the most severely judged at the final judgement. He pointed out several reasons and among them was the fact that we have been given much and that we still feel entitled to more. What we consider to be just enough, is far above the standard of living in most countries. Maybe our floor can go a little lower. He also said that we use democracy as an end to meet our needs, not as a means to evangelize. We have been given freedom that others wish they had. We use it to get what we want. We don’t use it to change our government and its policies or to make our government work.

I suspect that this is why he is doing the line up of bishops as he’s done in the Provincial Sees of the east coast of the USA. He has put into every Provincial See, the last one being Philadelphia, bishops who have zero tolerance for the US government and its games and bishops who will demand that their people also have zero tolerance. I see as if he’s lining up the chess board. Now, he’s doing the same thing in the southwest. The appointments of bishops for the Provincial Sees are men who have no fear of the government or the people.

There is going to be a point when Catholics in the USA will have to decide whether they are Catholic or patriots. We have a crop of bishops coming up who will not tolerate placing the USA over the Church. The Church allows for patriotism. But patriotism is guided by the Church. It is the Church who says what civil laws are valid and which are not. If they’re invalid, there is no crime in disobeying them. There is, however, a moral obligation on the part of Catholics who have the freedom and the democratic system in their hands to force the arm of government to conform to moral law so that all the poor are served.

Remember, the Church is against welfare states. That’s not how we serve the poor. We provide education and we create jobs. I was thinking about this the other day. I was in the chapel and I asked the Blessed Sacrament, “How much technology is too much? Dear Lord, we are replacing human beings with robots. We are creating unemployment and poverty.”

What inspired me to bring this concer to Jesus was that I had to call AT&T. It took me more than 10 minutes to talk to a human being. I had to talk to robots first. These were jobs that were handled by people who are not unemployed.

We have to fix immigration laws and we have to push our government to do what is the moral thing. Complaining and not saying anything to those who have the power to change things does not work. God will judge us and condemn us for that.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
There is going to be a point when Catholics in the USA will have to decide whether they are Catholic or patriots. We have a crop of bishops coming up who will not tolerate placing the USA over the Church. The Church allows for patriotism. But patriotism is guided by the Church. It is the Church who says what civil laws are valid and which are not. If they’re invalid, there is no crime in disobeying them.
Those are some mighty strong words and I personally don’t know of any Catholic who places country above their faith. I know many, myself included, who do not agree with the political opinions of some of the bishops. But are you saying that our churchmen will not speak in favor of the Constitution or defend the spirit by which this country was founded?
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. – That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed…
Patriotism, which is a Christian virtue, upholds the ideals of personal liberty, rule of law to protect the innocent and rights granted by God – those principles which are the foundation of this constitutional republic. Rather than being loyal to the state, its basic premise is loyalty to the good of each and every man. Isn’t that what Bshp Gomez is saying? I wonder just how long this nation will stand when the godly tenets of the Declaration of Independence fall and individual rights are crushed by an overreaching state which seems to honor the dubious agenda of the United Nations more than its own Constitution!
There is, however, a moral obligation on the part of Catholics who have the freedom and the democratic system in their hands to force the arm of government to conform to moral law so that all the poor are served.
Well, we can certainly see how well that’s working today as Catholics cry out for justice for the unborn, and scream in disbelief over the recent changes in legislation that demands we, against our consciences, pay for contraception and sterilization for the poor. We see Christian rights trampled upon as the Bible and prayer groups are expunged from schools, but Muslims retain the right to their prayer. And we see the state in support of SS marriage – how’s that one working for us as we “strong-arm” the government to conform to our beliefs! As Catholics, the Church grants us the freedom to work in various ways and use different methods, according to our good judgment, to assure justice for immigrants. It sounds to me like you believe immigration reform is more important than certain life issues which speak to the very heart of the Creator.
 
This is not the fault of unauthorized workers, who also pay billions a year in taxes, and contribute billions more to social security.
Yes it is. They chose to come here illegally, and they contribute taxes and SS only by identity theft IE using someone else’s SS number.

When my husbands father was refused entry into America as a teenager, while fleeing the Nazis he went to Mexico and gained citizenship there and then later legally came to the US, although he never became an American citizen he died here as a legal resident. I have very little sympathy for those that cross our borders illegally and then want amnesty after the fact. Use the legal process we already have in place.
 
**We have to fix immigration laws ** and we have to push our government to do what is the moral thing. Complaining and not saying anything to those who have the power to change things does not work. God will judge us and condemn us for that.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
Well, the Holy Father himself also stressed the importance of prudential reasoning and judgment regarding the implementation of the Church’s social doctrine. I, most likely, do not agree with your solution to the fixing of the immigration mess. That does not mean that I do not love my neighbor, (the thrust of the article that started this thread) or that I love my country more - it says, instead, that we must all work in the best way we know how, toward a just society which protects the common good.

“Differences of opinion in the application of principles can sometimes arise even among sincere Catholics. When this happens, they should be careful not to lose their respect and esteem for each other. Instead, they should strive to find points of agreement for effective and suitable action, and not wear themselves out in interminable arguments, and, under pretext of the better or the best, omit to do the good that is possible and therefore obligatory.”

oecumene.radiovaticana.org/EN1/articolo.asp?c=487590
 
Those are some mighty strong words and I personally don’t know of any Catholic who places country above their faith. I know many, myself included, who do not agree with the political opinions of some of the bishops. But are you saying that our churchmen will not speak in favor of the Constitution or defend the spirit by which this country was founded?
That’s not the problem that is being addressed here. The problem is that we have a situation that is not specifically covered by the constitution. Therefore, laws had to be created. That was a good thing. The laws don’t work. That’s a bad thing. The government is not making much of an effort to fix broken systems. That’s a worse thing. In the end, the Church is protecting the Constitution. The Constitution says that it’s the duty of government to enact laws and it was assumed that they would enact laws that worked and that they had enough sense to change them when they did not work. That’s the part that is not happening.
Patriotism, which is a Christian virtue, upholds the ideals of personal liberty, rule of law to protect the innocent and rights granted by God – those principles which are the foundation of this constitutional republic. Rather than being loyal to the state, its basic premise is loyalty to the good of each and every man. Isn’t that what Bshp Gomez is saying? I wonder just how long this nation will stand when the godly tenets of the Declaration of Independence fall and individual rights are crushed by an overreaching state which seems to honor the dubious agenda of the United Nations more than its own Constitution!
The problem with the state, not only in our country, but in many, is that the state has lost sight of its moral roots.
Well, we can certainly see how well that’s working today as Catholics cry out for justice for the unborn, and scream in disbelief over the recent changes in legislation that demands we, against our consciences, pay for contraception and sterilization for the poor. We see Christian rights trampled upon as the Bible and prayer groups are expunged from schools, but Muslims retain the right to their prayer. And we see the state in support of SS marriage – how’s that one working for us as we “strong-arm” the government to conform to our beliefs!
The truth is that Catholic have done very little to turn the tide of abortion in this country. There are over 35 million Catholics in the USA, or some such high number. At the three marches of life that are held each year around the USA about .5 million show up. Half million out of 35 million is a drop in the bucket.

We know that many people can’t go. We know that many people are uncomfortable in such situations, but there is a great deal that can be done at the local level and behind the scenes.
As Catholics, the Church grants us the freedom to work in various ways and use different methods, according to our good judgment, to assure justice for immigrants. It sounds to me like you believe immigration reform is more important than certain life issues which speak to the very heart of the Creator.
I’ll let this one pass, because I know that you have no clue what I do 24/7.

If you’re interested you can read a little about it here:

www.franciscansoflife.org

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF :J)
 
That’s fine, Brother. But the working poor include many more residing in this country than simply immigrants of any origin, of all origins, and of undocumented status. When I see injustice being committed at the expense of other particular poor people (in the distribution of social services which all poor people need),
You are right in doing so. However, I do not think anyone is arguing for preferential treatement of illegal immigrant poor over the poor who are not illegal immigrants. When that happens, it is an injustice to be addressed. The Church, and none of the bishops, have ever suggested there should be preferential treatment based on illegal immigration status.
 
“The economy needs several million manual labor jobs in seasonal work such as agriculture, poultry processing plants, in elderly care, and other such sectors that, despite the unemployment figures, most Americans won’t do.”

I don’t about everyone else, but here is one American that will dig ditches, shovel cow manure, or any other line of hard labor to get by. Show me where to sign up.
 
Yes it is. They chose to come here illegally, and they contribute taxes and SS only by identity theft IE using someone else’s SS number.

When my husbands father was refused entry into America as a teenager, while fleeing the Nazis he went to Mexico and gained citizenship there and then later legally came to the US, although he never became an American citizen he died here as a legal resident. I have very little sympathy for those that cross our borders illegally and then want amnesty after the fact. Use the legal process we already have in place.
There is no legal process for unskilled uneducated workers such as the bulk of the present unlawfully present population to enter. There ARE no nonimmigrant visa classifications for the type of labor they do, and no immigrant process either. I really wish people would read up on the topic and learn a modicum of FACTS about our present immigration laws and policy before they make uninformed statements. I have written EXTENSIVELY on these forums in probably two dozen such threads on this issue from a knowledgable legal perspective, and may have provided an overview of this in this very thread already, but the “wait in line” fallacy keeps coming up anyway. There is no line, no “process” for persons coming for unskilled and low-skilled labor outside of the horribly flawed, unworkable, and drastically inadequate H-2B nonimmigrant visa. I’d hate to have to explain it in detail again as to why that single option doesn’t work, as I’ve done that probably seven or eight times on CAF, look up some prior threads on immigration and have a read.

Also frequently covered is the fact that most undocumented workers are not stealing SSN’s or using fake ones: rather, most are paid in cash, receiving checks on their VALID actual SSN they got when they entered LEGALLY (before their legal status expired), or filing tax returns using an ITIN number that you can receive from the IRS in lieu of an SSN.
 
“The economy needs several million manual labor jobs in seasonal work such as agriculture, poultry processing plants, in elderly care, and other such sectors that, despite the unemployment figures, most Americans won’t do.”

I don’t about everyone else, but here is one American that will dig ditches, shovel cow manure, or any other line of hard labor to get by. Show me where to sign up.
I sincerely hope and will pray that you quickly find employment if you are in need. However, I must point out that your willingness to take ANY work, while admirable frankly, is NOT shared by a large number of our fellow countrymen today. As I have talked about before, here in my area in the Detroit metro, there have been stories in the news about how out of work Americans, former auto workers and such, will get a job landscaping or other hard labor, and quit after a few days, or not work at all because they realize they can earn about the same money on unemployment benefits as doing such work. My prayers for you though.:gopray2:
 
Thank and God Bless you my friend. It may be pride, but I’d hate to be on government benefits. I like to earn by the sweat of my brow. I’m just old fashioned I guess. Again God Bless!
 
What does the Church tell these fathers and mothers who are just trying to support their families by entering our country illegally?

We hear a lot about what our reaction to these people illegally crossing our borders should be. We hear a lot about how we should reform our immigration system to instantly change these people here illegally to legal immigrants.

But what does the Church say to these people? Does the Church encourage or discourage illegal immigration?
 
Brother JR—God bless you once again! Your sound reason and use of logic, and your powers of observation, are one of the main reasons I stick around this often-prosaic forum. And Blacksword, FWIW, I believe you have made some salient points re legal technicalities re immigration, for those who are listening. Indeed, given what the Holy Father has said repeatedly about social justice and immigration, I expected to find the CAF rather less hard-right evangelical and more, well, Catholic.

Tigg—the websites you site are, to a domain, partisan. In fact, the USCCB is the least biased of all organizations cited—which is saying quite a bit as it is explicitly Catholic! As for Hispanics converting to Islam I dismiss this as a quantitative statistic as ludicrous, only strident conspiracy theorists (to my knowledge) have ever seriously espoused this, and then only in the context of some convoluted conspiracy. I maintain that, by and large, in the great majority, Hispanic immigration into the United States—besides the fact it is morally sanctioned by the Church—has the added benefit of increasing Catholicism in America. With—honestly—all due respect Tigg, the fact of the matter is that despite what fringe statisticians might conjure up or rather demented fundamentalists might dream up, the Hispanic peoples of America are one of the greatest bastions of Catholicism on earth. Period. Although some solidly Christian—Catholic—immigrants might be infected by this country’s many, many perversions, legal sicknesses, rapacity, rapine, and debauchery nonetheless, given the fact that the secularists et al. regularly fail to reproduce the long term scenario is indeed, in my opinion, an increasingly Catholic country.

And Elizabeth, let me be clear, I am a Catholic first and an American second, a very very distant second. I do not necessarily believe patriotism is a virtue, because if I were to be (or were to have been) patriotic is the USA I would have been supporting never ending series of Protestant aggression towards Catholic countries and the exploitation of Catholic minorities by a more-than-occasionally rabidly hostile Protestant fringe group, which have historically been viciously against the Church and Papacy. If I were to be ‘patriotic’ now, I’d be supporting abortion, SSM, S&M, ‘transgenderism’, secularism, debauchery, and any other number of ideologies which are anathema to the Church and Her teachings.

I live to worship Christ and serve the Church. To this end, increased Hispanic immigration is just, condoned, and righteous. It is, indeed, the right thing to do.
 
And Elizabeth, let me be clear, I am a Catholic first and an American second, a very very distant second. I do not necessarily believe patriotism is a virtue, because if I were to be (or were to have been) patriotic is the USA I would have been supporting never ending series of Protestant aggression towards Catholic countries and the exploitation of Catholic minorities by a more-than-occasionally rabidly hostile Protestant fringe group, which have historically been viciously against the Church and Papacy. If I were to be ‘patriotic’ now, I’d be supporting abortion, SSM, S&M, ‘transgenderism’, secularism, debauchery, and any other number of ideologies which are anathema to the Church and Her teachings.
That’s fine. I have no idea why your positive rant 😉 about patriotism vs. Catholicism. 🤷
My points have nothing to do with patriotism, but with poverty and the immorality of poverty.
🙂
 
^ Sorry, E. I think the rant was directed to my post (in response to JR) and altho I think we’re somewhat off topic, I would like to respond.
I do not necessarily believe patriotism is a virtue, because if I were to be (or were to have been) patriotic is the USA I would have been supporting never ending series of Protestant aggression towards Catholic countries and the exploitation of Catholic minorities by a more-than-occasionally rabidly hostile Protestant fringe group, which have historically been viciously against the Church and Papacy. If I were to be ‘patriotic’ now, I’d be supporting abortion, SSM, S&M, ‘transgenderism’, secularism, debauchery, and any other number of ideologies which are anathema to the Church and Her teachings.
Wow – this is really something new I’ve never heard before! Obviously, you are not familiar with the Catholic men’s fraternal organization of The Knights of Columbus. The fourth degree is built on the principle of patriotism - love for and devotion to one’s country. My husband, being a knight, tells me the chaplain of his individual counsel, an orthodox Catholic priest, often speaks to them on this subject in conjunction with their pro-life activities. And I don’t know which books your parish uses in your religious ed program, but our catechetical series last year devoted an entire class to responsible citizenship and patriotism as a Christian virtue. Obviously, there is some confusion between patriotism and nativism.
 
That’s not the problem that is being addressed here. The problem is that we have a situation that is not specifically covered by the constitution. Therefore, laws had to be created. That was a good thing. The laws don’t work. That’s a bad thing. **The government is not making much of an effort to fix broken systems. **

The problem with the state, not only in our country, but in many, is that the state has lost sight of its moral roots.
Actually, Bro JR, the progressive political agenda of the left has worked long and hard in trying to pass another blanket amnesty. Grass roots efforts coming from the American public have so far stopped it every time. This administration, as did the previous one, also allows rampant fraud regarding immigration and green card issues. The reports are legendary and can be read on-line. They neither enforce the current laws nor reform the ones on the books, so I will agree with you wholeheartedly that not only has the state lost sight of its moral roots – it is corrupt to the core.

(And, I am aware of the good work you do - a sincere thank you for being of service to God and His people.)
 
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