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wifeandmomoftwo
Guest
well TEEN has been informed
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Elric
Guest
No, it does come from “left field” because it doesnt go by the conventienal ideal. The ideas brought foward are very confronting, especally when they go against something that you have been taught and believe all of your life. I dont expect people to simply take my word for it, but I would hope that they might study it for themselves.
Perhaps it would be better to turn the discussion a bit, because it wont go anywhere other than people thinking that they are hitting a brick wall.
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wanner47
Guest
Elric, the reason I haven’t “refuted” any of your points is because there is no need to. You are unable to prove that Jesus gave you the authority to correctly interpret Scripture, so any Scripture interpretation you give me is subject to error.
The Catholic Church, on the other hand, *has *been given that authority by Jesus, and thus I believe her teachings on homosexuality to be correct and accurate.
The Catholic Church, on the other hand, *has *been given that authority by Jesus, and thus I believe her teachings on homosexuality to be correct and accurate.
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Filius99993
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THANK YOU!!!
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Riley259
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Never enough to put your soul and salvation in jeapody. You’re being seduced into a lie…it won’t make you happy. Unfortunately, you’re too young to see that right now but trust some of the posters on this thread - it’s not worth it!!! I’ll pray for you.Continue disagreeing with them
And boys are 2 cute to stay chaste
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marty30
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I think I understand what your saying now but it may be out of context in this situation. Also you said that If you do not feel as if you are “going to hell” then you probably are not “going to hell.” So does that mean no one is going to hell. I mean who does evil and does it because they know that it’s a free ticket to hell. So people who do wicked things and know its wrong but do it anyways are free from going to hell just because they don’t think they are going to hell. Maybe I don’t understand,
enlighten me please. And basically new age is taking the truth out of context and twisting it. I could be wrong but I think that is what you did.
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marty30
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Just incase any one decides to take what I said out of context, I never said Teen was destined to hell. He’s definitly playing russian rullette though. Merry Christmas every one. May the birth of Christ fill all our hearts with his amazing Love.
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dconstruct
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**I mean who does evil and does it because they know that it’s a free ticket to hell. **
Mafiosi have a ritual in which they burn a small image of a saint in the palms of their hands as a symbol of their rejection of Christ’s commandment to love one another. When they kill and murder, they know full well that what they are doing is against the will of God; yet, they do it anyway.
The child-rapist who agonizes over his perversion in his room for hours but then decides to walk out the door and make his way down to the playground. That guy knows what he is doing is wrong.
The leather-boy queer who goes into “the stocks” to be anonymously sodomized at the “Lords of Leather” Mardi Gras Ball knows that what he is doing is perverted and wrong. In fact, if you ever talk to a guy like that (my step-brother was like that before he died of complications due to AIDS), what you will find is a desperate alienation, coupled with a lingering sadness and anxiety.
THAT desperate alienation and lingering sadness and anxiety IS WHAT THE STATE OF SIN IS! Divorced from the fountain of all hope and creation, lost in a torment of your own making: when you die in that state, your torment echoes throughout eternity; hence, Hell.
**So people who do wicked things and know its wrong but do it anyways are free from going to hell just because they don’t think they are going to hell. **
The key phrase that you use here is “and know it’s wrong.”
There are many gay people who struggle with their sexual identity and come to the conclusion that, despite everything they have heard, seen, read or otherwise indulged in order to know Truth, their homosexuality is (in their honest and heartfelt view) the only “natural” and “rightly ordered” sexual orientation that fits them. When these people examine their conscience, it tells them that they are right in their homosexuality.
We are all subject, first and foremost (even in the view of the Church), to our own conscience. So, whereas from the orthodox (I loathe to use the term “objective”) point of view, these people are in a state of sin, their subjective experience may not lead them to perceive themselves as cut off from Divine Grace.
If a person does not FEEL cut off from Divine Grace, then who are you to tell them that they SHOULD feel cut off from Divine Grace? Is it not preferable (more charitable, more merciful, more compassionate) to pray that that person truly finds comfort rather than imposing your own judgements on them? Again, who are you to judge? Are you without sin? If not, then why are you carrying around a huge sack of stones for gay people?
What seperates the Church of Rome from the vast majority of the Protestant sects is that the Church understands that the first and only rule is love. Love is more important than righteousness. Love is more important than right-thinking or right-practice. Love is more important than the command to instruct or to spread the Gospel because if you don’t have that whole love thing down, then generally your take on the Gospel is going to be limited if not blatently in error.
You do not have to validate homosexuality, morally, in order to accept homosexuals as just as close to the heart of Christ as anyone else and thus, deserving of your unequivocal and selfless love as per Christ’s admonition to “Love others as I have loved you.”
Merry Christmas!
Mafiosi have a ritual in which they burn a small image of a saint in the palms of their hands as a symbol of their rejection of Christ’s commandment to love one another. When they kill and murder, they know full well that what they are doing is against the will of God; yet, they do it anyway.
The child-rapist who agonizes over his perversion in his room for hours but then decides to walk out the door and make his way down to the playground. That guy knows what he is doing is wrong.
The leather-boy queer who goes into “the stocks” to be anonymously sodomized at the “Lords of Leather” Mardi Gras Ball knows that what he is doing is perverted and wrong. In fact, if you ever talk to a guy like that (my step-brother was like that before he died of complications due to AIDS), what you will find is a desperate alienation, coupled with a lingering sadness and anxiety.
THAT desperate alienation and lingering sadness and anxiety IS WHAT THE STATE OF SIN IS! Divorced from the fountain of all hope and creation, lost in a torment of your own making: when you die in that state, your torment echoes throughout eternity; hence, Hell.
**So people who do wicked things and know its wrong but do it anyways are free from going to hell just because they don’t think they are going to hell. **
The key phrase that you use here is “and know it’s wrong.”
There are many gay people who struggle with their sexual identity and come to the conclusion that, despite everything they have heard, seen, read or otherwise indulged in order to know Truth, their homosexuality is (in their honest and heartfelt view) the only “natural” and “rightly ordered” sexual orientation that fits them. When these people examine their conscience, it tells them that they are right in their homosexuality.
We are all subject, first and foremost (even in the view of the Church), to our own conscience. So, whereas from the orthodox (I loathe to use the term “objective”) point of view, these people are in a state of sin, their subjective experience may not lead them to perceive themselves as cut off from Divine Grace.
If a person does not FEEL cut off from Divine Grace, then who are you to tell them that they SHOULD feel cut off from Divine Grace? Is it not preferable (more charitable, more merciful, more compassionate) to pray that that person truly finds comfort rather than imposing your own judgements on them? Again, who are you to judge? Are you without sin? If not, then why are you carrying around a huge sack of stones for gay people?
What seperates the Church of Rome from the vast majority of the Protestant sects is that the Church understands that the first and only rule is love. Love is more important than righteousness. Love is more important than right-thinking or right-practice. Love is more important than the command to instruct or to spread the Gospel because if you don’t have that whole love thing down, then generally your take on the Gospel is going to be limited if not blatently in error.
You do not have to validate homosexuality, morally, in order to accept homosexuals as just as close to the heart of Christ as anyone else and thus, deserving of your unequivocal and selfless love as per Christ’s admonition to “Love others as I have loved you.”
Merry Christmas!
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Kolbe300
Guest
dconstruct,
That post was so wonderfully done. From the bottom of my heart, I thank you. And with God’s grace and love we can show those who are lost how beautiful the light truly is. Until then, we should love them till it hurts.
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KathleenElsie
Guest
dconstruct
I do not understand this sentence can you please explain it?
How can someone that knows something is wrong and still does it then not be held responsible for his or her actions?
I do not understand this sentence can you please explain it?
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How can someone that knows something is wrong and still does it then not be held responsible for his or her actions?
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suupah
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dconstruct
Guest
How can someone that knows something is wrong and still does it then not be held responsible for his or her actions?
The bold text that you are referring to was actually cut from Marty30’s previous post where he asked me for clarification.
He misconstrued what I was saying above. Actually, the point that I was making was that people are ONLY held accountable for those sinful actions that they know are wrong.
So, the answer to YOUR question is that someone who knows something is wrong and still does it is DEFINITELY responsible for their actions.
The bold text that you are referring to was actually cut from Marty30’s previous post where he asked me for clarification.
He misconstrued what I was saying above. Actually, the point that I was making was that people are ONLY held accountable for those sinful actions that they know are wrong.
So, the answer to YOUR question is that someone who knows something is wrong and still does it is DEFINITELY responsible for their actions.
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Elric
Guest
Thats it I guess.
You do realise that you are suggesting that you cant think for yourself or form your own ideas (an observation, not a criticism). I was really only encouraging you to study it for yourself as I have (remember, I did believe the same thing as you do). I didnt expect you to take my word for it and I didnt think that there was any harm in people doing their own study, apparently I was wrong.
I didnt want to make any percieved attacks of the cathloic church, which is why I wrote “no comment” a few times, out of respect for yourself any other members of these forums.
I cant honestly that it was a good debate, I think that you would agree that it just went in repeative circles and that doesnt really make a debate.
Well good luck to you and have a merry Christmas.
Thank you for your contrabution to this debate.
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wanner47
Guest
On the contrary, I think for myself quite well. But rather than wasting time haggling over Scripture translations, I go right to the source – the one that Jesus set up.
If you don’t have the authority to CORRECTLY AND ACCURATELY interpret Scripture, what is the point of trying to do so? Chances are your interpretation will be wrong given that you are a fallible human being.
By all means, if you think you can prove that the Catholic Church does not have the ability or the authority to correctly interpret Scripture, I’d love to hear it. Please do start a new thread and we can debate the subject.
But until you have effectively disproven that authority, what is the point in listening to your fallible interpretation of Scripture?
In the Protestant view, everybody can interpret Scripture for themselves. So what happens when there are two radically opposing viewpoints of the same verses; i.e., yours and mine? What then? How do we figure out who is right? Did Jesus leave no way whatsoever to determine that? Seems like a pretty poor system for a deity to set up, if that’s the case.
A Merry Christmas to you as well.
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mikeledes
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The word “natural” in this verse is referring to the biological/ anatomical fact that sexual relations between man and woman is the “natural” from of sexual intimacy. That’s why it says “natural relations.” This is a clear condemnation of the homosexual act, whether its performed by a heterosexual or a person with a same sex attraction.
God Bless,
Michael
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buffalo
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Gn 1:27 - complementarity of sexes reflects God’s inner unity
Gn 2:21-24 - transmission of life through total self-donation - one flesh
Gn 19 - original sin deteriorates to Sodom’s sin, destroyed
Lv18:22 - called abomination, cut off from people (v.29)
Lv 20;13 - both shall be put to death for abominable deed
Rom 1;27 - called unnatural, shameful, and a perversity
1Cor 6:9 - active homosexuals won’t inherit kingdom of God
1Tim 1:9-10 - those who engage in such acts called sinners
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Riley259
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They have an obligation to inform their conscience properly and when confronted with these issues, faithful Catholics have an obligation to inform them of the truth. Once they know the truth but still reject it, then they are indeed in jeopardy of losing their salvation.
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AndyF
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You can’t embrace or accept this lifestyle and expect to enter heaven, period.I try to live a good christian life for the most part, so am I? I believe i’m not but I would appreciate your take on the matter
You can’t serve two masters.
AndyF
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vereorquodtre
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NewUlm1976_2000
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