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kathielee
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I won’t spoonfeed you when you should already know enough about Jesus to know this…when Jesus spoke this, he was stating the first line of one of the Psalms. Why? Because what he said on the Cross was in fulfillment of the the Old Testament of the Christ. In those days, they had to memorize what we call the Old Testament. They spoke the first line of a Psalm and everyone knew what they were referring to. Jesus did this very thing…the first line of a Psalm. It’s surely up to you to figure out which one…again, not spoonfeeding you.
And, by the way, why was there such a big deal about the curtain ripping in front of the Holy of Holies that told the Jews that this was truly the Son of God? Because that curtain was EIGHT FEET THICK !
You gotta know your Bible and the history and the tradition to know what you are talking about. Mormons just want to make it up as they go along. ???
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melmac
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luvlife
Guest
My question for any Mormon who’d like to answer: I don’t know if this is true (I know very little about your faith 
) but I thought you believe that after Jesus was ressurected, he came to preach to the Native Americans? My question is why didn’t Christianity take hold & spread like it did in the East and are their cave drawing or whatever that show that they had heard of Jesus? Surely it would’ve made a big impact? Otherwise, what would’ve been the point??
Just curious… thank you.
) but I thought you believe that after Jesus was ressurected, he came to preach to the Native Americans? My question is why didn’t Christianity take hold & spread like it did in the East and are their cave drawing or whatever that show that they had heard of Jesus? Surely it would’ve made a big impact? Otherwise, what would’ve been the point??Just curious… thank you.
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Irish_Kathy
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That’s something that has occured to me as well. Why did it take the Book of Mormon for your faith to finally “catch on?”My question for any Mormon who’d like to answer: I don’t know if this is true (I know very little about your faith
Just curious… thank you.
:kissme: Kathy
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LaMar
Guest
The bible is not a historical document. It’s mythology. Jesus doesn’t seem to exist in the history books, because there’s absolutely no evidence he ever existed in the real world. Citing one to support the other doesn’t work.
You have religion, and you have science. The two don’t mix and were never intended to. Religion functions toward building a community and providing a framework for ethics, charity, etc. Science is a body of knowledge and a process for dealing with the real world. People who conflate the two have a shallow understanding of either or both.
Hope that helps,
LaMar
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Irish_Kathy
Guest
I respectfully disagree. There is alot of archaeological and other historical evidence for Jesus’ life, death and resurection. In fact, on Good Friday, my Parish was blessed by being able to borrow a relic from the genuine cross for a brief period from another nearby Parish. It would not be considered a relic unless there was significant evidence that it is genuine.
On the other hand, from what I’ve heard, there isn’t any evidence at all for the Book of Mormon.
:kissme: Kathy
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hosemonkey
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There is however, solid evidence that the mish-mosh of imagination, lies, fantasies and plagiarism that is the BOM is a total product of the imagination of Joe Smith or one of his henchmen. There IS solid evidence in the annals of history that the the Lord Jesus not only existed, but also worked miracles in Judea, as attested to by eyewitnesses. So much so that His deeds have come down to us over centuries of exile, war, persecution, martyrdom and opposition. The Bible is supported by archeology, the BOM is supported by nothing. If His life and ministry had not been of God, it would now occupy the same place as other ancient religions, namely that of footnotes to history. Your disbelief and cynicism have no bearing on those facts nor to the testament of history and scholarship. You are either confused, ignorant or angry, you pick.
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Brother_Dorsey
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mormon.orgHello , zerinus, and how are you?
I bet it is hard work doing what you do! Talk about a hard job! Knocking on doors only to have them slam in your face!!! But I would definitely be interested in learning more about your religion. Perhaps I judged you too fast, on the basis of what I read that was so negative.(i.e. The God Makers). DO you know of any links to information about your church. I will also look it up on the web. Blessings, and have a good day…
Tommy
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Brother_Dorsey
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To answer the question of why I stopped posting here is a simple one. I came here with an open heart, with the intent to discuss my faith and to ask questions about yours. Remember I said I was raised RC and my family is still RC and I respect their faith and love then dearly. I thought I would be given a chance here but my faith was attacked immediately. I then realized that the Spirit of God could net be present in this forum to witness the truth to anyone. The contention was too much. Contention is not of God. I returned and found the thread had grown to 18 pages and decided to read them. I did see a few LDS posters trying to defend their faith as well as many RC’s doing the same thing. I also saw many posters who really didn’t want to add understanding to the thread, they only wanted to ridicule each others faith. I was once like this, harsh and brash and rude and sometimes downright mean when defending my faith in on line forums like this one. But this is NOT the Lord’s way. It’s easy to say mean things and ridicule when behind the anonymity of a PC screen. I propose a challenge to all here when debating faith. Simply, do not judge another’s faith. If someone states what they believe acknowledge it and go on, don’t tell them they are “wrong”. If this is done in the spirit of learning then you all might agree we have something very much in common…the Lord, our God, Jesus Christ whom we all love dearly and who told us to “love each other as I have loved you”.
God bless you all…
Brother D.
God bless you all…
Brother D.
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why_me
Guest
You have shown just who the majority of Mormons are: understanding, tolerant, christ-minded, charitable etc. There have also been other mormons who have shown the same characterisics who posted on this forum. Hopefully the few catholics who have negative and intolerant opinions of the lds church can follow your advice.
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majick275
Guest
so you came here as missionaries hoping to proselytize to an adoring audience and gain some converts.
What you found were people who knew the truth and weren’t interested in false doctrines or false prophets.
you shouldn’t be surprised and it seems the height of arrogance to make comments like this “I then realized that the Spirit of God could net be present in this forum to witness the truth to anyone.” this implies that mormonism is God’s truth and anyone who disagrees openly is driving God away. do you even realize how offensive that sounds?
It also seems hypocritical when anticatholics post things like this:
"You have shown just who the majority of Mormons are: understanding, tolerant, christ-minded, charitable etc. " knowing that mormon scriptures call our creeds abominations in the sight of God and all of us who profess them corrupt.
there is no middle ground here.what was proposed cannot be done in good conscience: “Simply, do not judge another’s faith.” we have to. mormons do this as well. it is the foundation of their faith. the great apostasy judges all other churches to be so wrong as to require a complete restoration. what is said about other churches in mormon scripture goes far beyond mere “ridicule”. God teaches us in scripture that we have to be true to HIS church anyway and we can’t just remain silent in the face of false teachings.
"If someone states what they believe acknowledge it and go on, don’t tell them they are “wrong”.
this cannot be done either. first of all many here misrepresent their faith and we have to sort through the “personal doctrine” before we can even begin to compare and contrast religions. then when we do get to that God has shown us in scriptures that we do have to correct erroneous teachings. jesus certainly did. what do you think LDS missionaries are doing in the first discussion?
"If this is done in the spirit of learning then you all might agree we have something very much in common…the Lord, our God, Jesus Christ whom we all love dearly and who told us to “love each other as I have loved you”.
and herein lies the great danger. we do NOT have this in common and if we aren’t careful we allow people to fall into error believing that we do. Mormons do not even pray to Jesus and they certainly don’t acknowledge him as their God. That is reserved for Elohim. mormons acknowledge Jesus as their savior. there is a significant difference here in that first of all Mormons reject the Trinity and secondly they have a completely different concept of the nature of God and by extension man. The catholic belief in who and what God is is diametrically opposed to the mormon teaching on this subject.
What you found were people who knew the truth and weren’t interested in false doctrines or false prophets.
you shouldn’t be surprised and it seems the height of arrogance to make comments like this “I then realized that the Spirit of God could net be present in this forum to witness the truth to anyone.” this implies that mormonism is God’s truth and anyone who disagrees openly is driving God away. do you even realize how offensive that sounds?
It also seems hypocritical when anticatholics post things like this:
"You have shown just who the majority of Mormons are: understanding, tolerant, christ-minded, charitable etc. " knowing that mormon scriptures call our creeds abominations in the sight of God and all of us who profess them corrupt.
there is no middle ground here.what was proposed cannot be done in good conscience: “Simply, do not judge another’s faith.” we have to. mormons do this as well. it is the foundation of their faith. the great apostasy judges all other churches to be so wrong as to require a complete restoration. what is said about other churches in mormon scripture goes far beyond mere “ridicule”. God teaches us in scripture that we have to be true to HIS church anyway and we can’t just remain silent in the face of false teachings.
"If someone states what they believe acknowledge it and go on, don’t tell them they are “wrong”.
this cannot be done either. first of all many here misrepresent their faith and we have to sort through the “personal doctrine” before we can even begin to compare and contrast religions. then when we do get to that God has shown us in scriptures that we do have to correct erroneous teachings. jesus certainly did. what do you think LDS missionaries are doing in the first discussion?
"If this is done in the spirit of learning then you all might agree we have something very much in common…the Lord, our God, Jesus Christ whom we all love dearly and who told us to “love each other as I have loved you”.
and herein lies the great danger. we do NOT have this in common and if we aren’t careful we allow people to fall into error believing that we do. Mormons do not even pray to Jesus and they certainly don’t acknowledge him as their God. That is reserved for Elohim. mormons acknowledge Jesus as their savior. there is a significant difference here in that first of all Mormons reject the Trinity and secondly they have a completely different concept of the nature of God and by extension man. The catholic belief in who and what God is is diametrically opposed to the mormon teaching on this subject.
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xmormon
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Ah the last line of Mormon defense contention… Jesus should have quit when he saw that the scribes and pharisees were so mad they wanted to kill him, and he certainly shouldn’t have ever whipped and drove out the money changers. The apostles should have never got people so mad that they imprisoned them and eventually killed them. If they had only learned the Mormon lesson on contention and obeying the law of the land they would have never said anything offensive and caused contention. As a LDS missionary our leaders reminded us often “if anyone brings up anything controversial, bear your testimony and leave, and heavy on the leave” I have since learned that this is the only real argument Mormons have in the face of the mountain of evidence proving Joseph Smith was a easily proved con artist fraud, call those providing facts contentious and leave (just as you did on this thread).
Well, this logic may work well for those who are blindly obedient but it isn’t working well for the honest seekers of truth. I and other truth defenders must and will continue even if the blind are offended for the following reasons.
The LDS church Newspaper Deseret Morning News Published: Thursday, Feb. 14, 2008 reported: “Late President Gordon B. Hinckley once told the Quorum of the Twelve, “Brethren, when my life is finished and the final services are concluding, I am going to rise up as I go by, look each of you in the eye and say, 'How are we doing on retention?”’ Retention has become a real focus. For you don’t need an abacus to know many members have left the building.
What happened to them?”
In the United States, Mormons are departing from the faith as fast as converts are joining. Converts rarely remain active in the Mormon Church. The official Mormon reaction to the articles stating that there are significantly less than 12 million members worldwide.
This is from a Salt Lake Tribune article Sep. 1st, 2005 quoting Merrill Bateman, a Mormon Seventy
“…He agreed the LDS Church’s worldwide membership, reported at 12 million, includes many who no longer consider themselves Mormon, but he disagreed with researchers who estimated active Mormons equal only 4 million.
Bateman said that number doesn’t count those in undeveloped countries who find it difficult to attend sacrament meetings. ‘So you might have in the neighborhood of . . . 4 [million] and 5 million members attending church at any given time, but those who are active would be more than that.’
Point: We must not be afraid to aggressively help the honest see the truth about Mormonism. Many have left and many more will leave, it is only a matter of someone telling the truth to those who are honest enough to hear it. We start out with something simple like telling them about The origins of the Catholic church and how many false prophets and teachers have tried to rise up and fight against Christ’s church. Then we tell them about the Many changes in the BoM and D&C often even reversing the original meaning. Then go on to the Kinderhook plates, The papyrus and the Book of Abraham etc. etc. (look these up on the web they are very convincing arguments that have led many to the truth about Mormonism). The honest are hit between the eyes with contention, contention over the fact that they were ever fooled by the Mormon con artists…
Tiber diving team of 2004 (we go deeper to penetrate the darkness with the light)
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RebeccaJ
Guest
Ah yes, the false mormon god shines through. We’re not WORTHY of its presence. I say, good riddance.
We all know that we sin and need God’s Love and that He doesn’t leave us. Unlike the mormon god, who is always taking off, like some bastard father who will only stick around for children that are “perfect”.
We all know that we sin and need God’s Love and that He doesn’t leave us. Unlike the mormon god, who is always taking off, like some bastard father who will only stick around for children that are “perfect”.
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LaMar
Guest
(snipped the rant)
Funny how you can’t name anything specific. Who are these eyewitnesses? Where are their testimonies recorded?
Of course, there’s nothing, just like last time. Tellyawhattho, you seem to be all fired up with God on your side. Since you can’t back up the historical claims, why don’t you do a minor miracle for me? Doesn’t matter what. We can test it all out. If you manage to defy the laws of nature in some meaningful fashion, I’ll pay you 1000 dollars. Sound good?
Tell me what you’re going to do beforehand, and when it’ll happen, so that I have some warning. Post it here for all to see.
Turn all the power off in my house for 24 hours, cause me to win the publisher’s clearinghouse sweepstakes, inflict a plague of locusts on my town. Whatever you like. If you want to curse me to die in some accident, I’ll have my wife send you the money in the event that it works.
I’ll be waiting for you, and God, to put the miracle where your mouth is…
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hosemonkey
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You have much in common with Herod. He also demanded a miracle. He died of a disgusting disease. I do not, however, wish the same for you. You, apparently, have already received your reward.
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majick275
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first off, what you propose is the mortal of simony. secondly what you propose contradicts Jesus teaching “thou shalt not tempt the lord thy God”. Satan wanted him to perform a “minor miracle” too.
Historical evidence for much of the old testament is there. we have found egyptian stella commemorating victory over israel. we know many of the cities mentioned existed because we have found them. new testament geography is even easier. we know those locations. we know some of the people are actual historical figures as we have found contemporary writings in which they are referenced.(herod, pilate) we have some extremely old copies of witness accounts written while these witnesses were still living. That Jesus was widely taught to be a real person by the second century is pretty much a given. the only areas where faith is required is whether or not to believe these witness accounts and whether or not Jesus was divine and biblical miracles actually happened. all of these require belief in God.
Historical evidence for much of the old testament is there. we have found egyptian stella commemorating victory over israel. we know many of the cities mentioned existed because we have found them. new testament geography is even easier. we know those locations. we know some of the people are actual historical figures as we have found contemporary writings in which they are referenced.(herod, pilate) we have some extremely old copies of witness accounts written while these witnesses were still living. That Jesus was widely taught to be a real person by the second century is pretty much a given. the only areas where faith is required is whether or not to believe these witness accounts and whether or not Jesus was divine and biblical miracles actually happened. all of these require belief in God.
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LaMar
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So, not only is there no historical proof forthcoming, but you also fail to provide some physical evidence for the reality of your mythology.
Glad we agree that the Bible is on the same plane as the Book of Mormon. Neither reflect reality, history or science. Both hold philosophical and ethical truths for the open minded.
Take Care,
LaMar
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LaMar
Guest
I’m the one doing the tempting, and I’m comfortable with that. The competition is open to you also, by the way. If you change your mind, and want to make a quick & easy thousand dollars (which, with the way the currency is rapidly inflating, might be enough to take your kids out for tacos next week) say the word.
When I was about 21 I read the Tanner’s book Mormonism: Shadow or Reality. I interviewed her for a project I was doing at the U about a year later.
Ever check that book out? Many here have a lot in common with Gerald & Sandra Tanner, even though they are fundamentalist Christians. They made a lot of perfectly valid points against the historical accuracy of the Book of Mormon. Unfortunately, all the arguments they made were equally applicable to the book they replaced it with (the Bible).
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RebeccaJ
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Mormons often attempt to show how their BoM is valid, by discrediting the Bible. You are doing the same, you discredit the BoM, therefore, the Bible is discredited as well.
You are believing what Mormonism has taught you.
You are asking for a miracle? God will give you one, just ask Him. Maybe start with the miracle of your own Faith.
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