I'm leaving my parish..

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leonie said:
In general, I’m against parish shopping. If there are major abuses of liturgy, liberal theology, or scandel, I would think that was a just reason to leave, esp. if you have children.

A parish near mine has a priest who got caught agreeing to preside over a secret gay marriage. They have drums and electric guitar at Mass. The priest leaves the altar to shake hands at the sign of peace. Instead of reading the Gospel, he gives a dramatization of it.

Now, there’s a reason to leave.

If you are looking for a great opportunity to involve your dh in the Church, you might consider Challenge girls club. 🙂
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Drums and electric guitars!!! Oh NO!!!:eek:
 
QUESTIONINGMOM said:
Fix and Michigan Over the course of time his dark and seemingly joyless view of the state of humanity and US culture depresses me. His conviciton in the power of prayer not just before action but in place of action riles my sense of how a thoughtful person should come to decisions. His stress of obedience above all else makes me uncomfortable. The disappearance of young girls from among our altar servers bums me out. My teenage daughter is anxious to leave and I can’t argue with her. Mantilla wearing woman have started to attending our church. Yes, what one wears to Mass is ones own choice, but I am just using this to set a mental image for you of our Mass…
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When you’ve been living on cotton candy for years and years, it’s tough to make the transition to meat and potatoes.
 
hosemonkey said:
I heartily concur. I am old enough to remember the pre Vatican II Church. Much was lost in the confusion surrounding that Council and is only now being regained. It is a shame that younger Catholics have become inbued with the blight that VII brought upon the Church and the abberations that resulted from a false “spirit of Vatican II” that those who would destroy the Church foisted upon the Faithful.
A stripped-down (although valid) Mass, social hall atmosphere during Mass, altar girls(shudder) uncovered women and holding hands, joe-cool priests and feminist Sisters. Legions of middle-aged ladies hovering around the altar and guitar-strummers instead of Gregorian Chant. OK, I’m done venting. All you kids line up and take your shots.😃
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Well, I one of those “younger Catholics”, but I love the Tridentine Mass and I want to be a traditional priest in a traditional religious order (in good standing with the Holy See ;)).
 
cheese_sdc said:
I understand that the sign of peace is officially option. I wonder about a person that would object to take the chance to interact with another person.
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Cheese:

How much interaction do you think you can have reaching over a couple of pews while mumbling “Peace be with you” or some similar salutation?

Don’t you think the Early Church’s practice of having a meal after Mass, where Christian brothers and sisters could have meaningful conversations and celebrate birthdays, anniversaries and whatever together just might be a better idea?

I’ve managed to talk with my Archbishop, Bishop and 2 guest Bishops during these Agape Meals, along with meeting the man who writes the column “Roaming Catholic”. Can you say you’ve had conversations that memorable during the “Passing of the Peace”?

I’m not saying that parishes shouldn’t have the “Passing of the Peace”, but that the “Passing of the Peace” has become a poor substitute for real interaction and real fellowshop in all too many pariahes where Catholics are shuffled in to Mass and then shuffled out on some sort of “assembly line”.

Of course, I was talking about my parish. St. Mary’s isn’t perfect, not by any stretch of the imagination, but I’ve noticed what I and other parishioners grumble about is a lot different than what I hear and read here.

Regarding the rest of your post, there’s a saying in Latin that roughly translates “As we Pray, so we Believe” or “The Law of Praying becomes the Law of Believing”, “lex orendi, lex credendi.”

Silence in front of the Lord in the Blessed Sacrament isn’t for the Lord. It’s for those of us who are praying in the presence of the Lord. If you talk in Church, you not only distract those who are trying to worship in the presence of our Lord, but you decide to worship the creature of conversation rather than the Lord who asked if you could just “wait with Him one hour”.

Try applying to a Traditionalists’ Seminary, and then St. John’s in the Archdiocese of Los Angeles. You’ll have your answer about whose seminaries are full (the Traditionalists have a 2 year documented waiting list, St. John’s is nearly empty).

Regarding the molestation Crisis - Compare the situation in Australia where Cardinal Pell enlisted the aid of the authorities to clean house with that in LA where the Archdiocese has appealed everything the DA has asked for or tried to do (There are no law suits in Australia, and most people their priests and bishops).

Your brother in Christ, Michael
 
cheese_sdc said:
My understanding of God is such that Jesus is not offended by people talking before Mass, or laughing in front of the tabernacle. In fact, my understanding of God is such that the Most Holy Trinity would probably smile at those people laughing and having a good time in front of the tabernacle. (Sorry, not related to this topic in particular, but a pet peeve of mine after hearing many people talk about how horrible it is for people to talk in church before Mass).
Dang it, these forums always get me riled up.
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My parish gets very loud before and after Mass and I find very upseting. First, I and other people would like this time for prayer and reflection. I am not against people laughing or having a good time, but’s it’s not okay to ignore the Lord while in His presence.

I don’t know how the Lord feels about people laughing before Mass, but it disturbs because I need to have quiet time with the LORD. Please, talk OUTSIDE!

Kendy
 
cheese_sdc said:
I wonder about a person that would object to take the chance to interact with another person.
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I wonder about people who think they know what’s best for me, such that they feel justified in forcing me into touchy-feely interactions with strangers.
 
I’m sorry to hear that you are not happy at your parish. I absolutely hate it when the preist is negative and/or obviously hates his job. I think thats the worst. I really don’t get why everyone has to turn it into a debate, just because the parish is more traditional doesn’t immediately mean its a good parish. It obviously isn’t if the members are suffering due to the priests lack of joy and love during the Mass. The other issues are secondary to having a deal with a priest who isn’t fully there and participating in the Mass as they should.

I pray you can find a parish that you enjoy, and a priest who is doing his job.
 
Dear Wolseley,

Do tell - in what hamlet is your beautiful church?

Debbie
 
hosemonkey said:
I heartily concur. I am old enough to remember the pre Vatican II Church. Much was lost in the confusion surrounding that Council and is only now being regained. It is a shame that younger Catholics have become inbued with the blight that VII brought upon the Church and the abberations that resulted from a false “spirit of Vatican II” that those who would destroy the Church foisted upon the Faithful.
A stripped-down (although valid) Mass, social hall atmosphere during Mass, altar girls(shudder) uncovered women and holding hands, joe-cool priests and feminist Sisters. Legions of middle-aged ladies hovering around the altar and guitar-strummers instead of Gregorian Chant. OK, I’m done venting. All you kids line up and take your shots.😃
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Housemonkey & Caesar:

I wholeheartedly agree that, “The Liturgy must be solemn, dignified, beautiful and glorious.” I’ve read interpretations of St. John’s Apocalypse which can easily be interpreted as the HEAVENLY LITURGY which we are participating in when we participate in the Divine Liturgy here on earth in our churches.

But, I do not believe that you have to perform the Tridentine Latin Mass to do that.

I belong to the TAC which uses a 16th Century Translation of the Serum Rite (one of the Liturgies common in Europe during the 200-300 years before the Council of Trent) combined with many prayers that were added from the TLM (17th Century Translation in the Anglican Missal) and a long section from the Anglican BCP of 1662.

St. Mary’s is Anglican Catholic, which means that we use the Anglican Missal, which Cardinal Cushing is reputed to have proposed as the translation/replacement for the TLM before Pope Paul VI unveiled the Ordo Missae 1970, aka The Novus Ordo.

Fr. Fessio does do the Ordo Missae 1970 in Latin Ad Orientum:

The Mass of Vatican II
Fr. Joseph Fessio, S.J.
ignatiusinsight.com/features2005/fessio_massv2_1_jan05.asp

You might want to read Fr. Fessio’s article, and anything else on the Liturgy you can get from him. At the same time, if you can get your hands on a copy of the Anglican Missal or the American Missal, you might be pleasantly surprised.

Your Brother in Christ, Michael
 
Thanks for all your posts. I appreciate the time it took everyone but I’d like to close this thread as I feel it has gone off topic.
 
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Fix and Michigan
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Over the course of time his dark and seemingly joyless view of the state of humanity and US culture depresses me.
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Would you agree that this is your opinion and may not be shared by other folks in the parish? What some call “joyless” may be seen by others as serious, thoughtful and purposeful. Is the man holy? Is that not what is most important? Not every priest’s personality will be liked by every person.
His conviciton in the power of prayer not just before action but in place of action riles my sense of how a thoughtful person should come to decisions.
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This is a bit vague, but I would gently suggest that one cannot pray too much.
His stress of obedience above all else makes me uncomfortable.
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Why? Is not the measure of humility obedience? I cannot think of one saint who would not place obedience near the very top of things we must be to work towards holiness.
The disappearance of young girls from among our altar servers bums me out. My teenage daughter is anxious to leave and I can’t argue with her. Mantilla wearing woman have started to attending our church. Yes, what one wears to Mass is ones own choice, but I am just using this to set a mental image for you of our Mass…
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It is the priest’s choice to have female servers or not. What concerns me more is the attitude that someone would want to leave because the priest is exercising his authority in what he believes is best for the souls in his care. From what you have posted thus far I cannot see that his actions are at odds with what the Church expects.
 
cheese_sdc said:
My understanding of God is such that Jesus is not offended by people talking before Mass, or laughing in front of the tabernacle. In fact, my understanding of God is such that the Most Holy Trinity would probably smile at those people laughing and having a good time in front of the tabernacle. (Sorry, not related to this topic in particular, but a pet peeve of mine after hearing many people talk about how horrible it is for people to talk in church before Mass).
Dang it, these forums always get me riled up.
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Whoa! You are advocating casual chatter before the Tabernacle?? How respectful is that? What about reverence? As Catholics, we are taught to genuflect before the Tabernacle and to spend quiet time there in prayer with God.

Do you have any idea how difficult it is to focus on prayer when people are chit-chatting away like they are at a social event? Please. Take your party elsewhere.
 
Victorious said:
When you’ve been living on cotton candy for years and years, it’s tough to make the transition to meat and potatoes.
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True, but if your church life is just meat and potatoes without fluffy greens, things tend to get “stopped up”…
 
QUESTIONINGMOM said:
After over 20 years I am sad to say that I am searching for a new parish. IMO my parish has been taken over by a sanctimonious, officious, advocate of excessive religiosity, throwback to pre vatican 2, lunatic. No question really, just wanted to vent.
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I’ll trade you for what I have to endure every week. Then we should both be happy! 🙂
 
Caesar said:
Which is better, to fill a person’s stomach for a day or to fill their soul for all eternity?
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If you can do both, rather than ponder which one is “better,” then you will be a perfect Christian, as described in the Letter of James.

As long as it’s an “either, or” choice, then you have fallen into the ditch on the left (food only) or fallen into the ditch on the right (teaching only) - but to be walking on the road of salvation without stumbling into either ditch - that is, to walk the Christian way - is to do both - feed them, and teach them.

See especially James 2:14-26
 
:amen:
jmcrae said:
If you can do both, rather than ponder which one is “better,” then you will be a perfect Christian, as described in the Letter of James.

As long as it’s an “either, or” choice, then you have fallen into the ditch on the left (food only) or fallen into the ditch on the right (teaching only) - but to be walking on the road of salvation without stumbling into either ditch - that is, to walk the Christian way - is to do both - feed them, and teach them.

See especially James 2:14-26
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:amen:
 
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