I'm starting to believe my friend!

  • Thread starter Thread starter RomanRyan1088
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I have read the Bible through and there is not single solitary place in the bible that says Bible alone. Paul talks of holding fast to scripture **and **traditions. In the Gospel of John, it talks of other signs and wonders and things that Jesus taught and did but the world would not be able to contain the books that would be written. It does not make these any less important because they were not written down. The reason there are what, thousands of protestant denominations is that if you dont like what is being taught, you can go off and start any little store front church, and to top it all off, you do not even have to be ordained. This does not make sense. I grew up in a fundalmentalist church and I know all the scriptures being thrown around. If the Catholic Church teaches it in the Catechism, you can bet is the whole and unadulterated truth. Every entry in the catechism has scripture or tradition reference beside it in the margin. The church gave the world the Bible. not the other way around.
 
40.png
Luke24:
Hello RomanRyan1088, no you are not wrong to believe that.👍 You believe the truth.
Click to expand...
Yea, give me that ol’ time Invincible Ignorance. It’s so much easier.
 
40.png
ralphinal:
Great Post…this is a great example of Jesus teaching that not by faith alone are we saved, but by works and faith, and that if Jesus had authority he could pass it along to his Church!!!
Click to expand...
You are really good at reading things into the Scriptures that aren’t there. Did you take lesson from your popes?
Matthew 7:22-23 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

What Jesus is saying is that we had better be doing the works we do in His name for the right reasons and motives. There is much about works in the Scriptures, but none of them count until you are saved.
Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
by works. Job 9:20; 15:14; 25:4; Ps 143:2; Isa 57:12; Lu 10:27-29; Ro 3:20,28; 4:5; 9:11,16; 11:6; Ga 2:16; 3:16-21; Eph 2:4,8-9; 2Ti 1:9
according. Tit 3:15; Ps 62:12; 86:5; 130:7; Mic 7:18; Lu 1:50,54,72,78; Eph 1:6-7; Heb 4:16; 1Pe 1:3; 2:10
washing. Joh 3:3-5; 1Co 6:11; Eph 5:26; 1Pe 3:21
renewing. Ps 51:10; Ro 12:2; Eph 4:23; Col 3:10; Heb 6:6

John 3:3-7 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Joh 3:3
Verily. Joh 1:51; Mt 5:18; 2Co 1:19-20; Re 3:14
Except. Joh 5:1-47; 1:13; Ga 6:15; Eph 2:1; Tit 3:5; Jas 1:18; 1Pe 1:3,23-25; 1Jo 2:29; 3:9; 5:1,18
again. or, from above. Jas 1:17; 3:17
he cannot. Joh 5:1-47; 1:5; 12:40; De 29:4; Jer 5:21; Mt 13:11-16; 16:17; 2Co 4:4

I would like to suggest before you go slamming my Lord any more you should go and read His Word, The Bible and quit being so scared to look at the truth of the Scriptures.
Now are you going to call my LORD and Saviour a liar again?
 
40.png
Luke24:
What Jesus is saying is that we had better be doing the works we do in His name for the right reasons and motives. There is much about works in the Scriptures, but none of them count until you are saved.
Click to expand...
Hmm… And how do you know this? The quotes you used do not say our works count for nothing until we are “saved”. Also, it seems to take some interpretation on your part to read that we should do works for only the right reasons and motives. I believe that there is something in scripture (I’ll remember it later and post it then I’m sure) about all good works are, well, good (was it the man casting out demons in Jesus’ name whom the Apostles wanted stopped because he wasn’t one of them?). Also, you are quoting from sources deemed Canonical by the Church. Don’t you worry that the Church may have been wrong about them, too?
 
40.png
MariaG:
Does that Clarify things? Yes, it tells me you own a Bible but somehow don’t read the very verses you tell us to look at. Circumcision in the Jewish faith was and is done to infants on the eigth day. Col 2:12-13 compares circumcision to baptism. why the comparrisson if baptism wasn’t done on infants. The Bible also tells us to keep not the little children from Him. Denying Children Baptism appears to contradict the teachings of christ as recorded in the Bible and the first 100 recorded years of Christianity that tell of infant baptism.
Click to expand...
What I said is that circumcision was a convenant made between God and the nation of Israel and yes the boys are still circumcised on the eighth day. It is God’s covenant to Israel not to Gentiles. That does not equate with Christian baptism at all.
Jesus was circumcised on the eighth day according to the Law.

When Jesus was baptized in the Jordan he was proclaiming that John’s baptism was legitimate but what He promised later was even greater; hence we have the encounter with Nicodemus. Also the apostle Paul has some very iteresting things on this subject.

Romans 2:25-29 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law? For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

There is no difference between believing Jews and believing Gentiles they are one in Christ.
Romans 10:12-17 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
 
40.png
Luke24:
You are really good at reading things into the Scriptures that aren’t there. Did you take lesson from your popes?
Matthew 7:22-23 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

What Jesus is saying is that we had better be doing the works we do in His name for the right reasons and motives. There is much about works in the Scriptures, but none of them count until you are saved.
Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
by works. Job 9:20; 15:14; 25:4; Ps 143:2; Isa 57:12; Lu 10:27-29; Ro 3:20,28; 4:5; 9:11,16; 11:6; Ga 2:16; 3:16-21; Eph 2:4,8-9; 2Ti 1:9
according. Tit 3:15; Ps 62:12; 86:5; 130:7; Mic 7:18; Lu 1:50,54,72,78; Eph 1:6-7; Heb 4:16; 1Pe 1:3; 2:10
washing. Joh 3:3-5; 1Co 6:11; Eph 5:26; 1Pe 3:21
renewing. Ps 51:10; Ro 12:2; Eph 4:23; Col 3:10; Heb 6:6

John 3:3-7 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Joh 3:3
Verily. Joh 1:51; Mt 5:18; 2Co 1:19-20; Re 3:14
Except. Joh 5:1-47; 1:13; Ga 6:15; Eph 2:1; Tit 3:5; Jas 1:18; 1Pe 1:3,23-25; 1Jo 2:29; 3:9; 5:1,18
again. or, from above. Jas 1:17; 3:17
he cannot. Joh 5:1-47; 1:5; 12:40; De 29:4; Jer 5:21; Mt 13:11-16; 16:17; 2Co 4:4

I would like to suggest before you go slamming my Lord any more you should go and read His Word, The Bible and quit being so scared to look at the truth of the Scriptures.

Now are you going to call my LORD and Saviour a liar again?
Click to expand...
Ok, now I MUST insist you stop.
 
40.png
joshua1:
I have read the Bible through and there is not single solitary place in the bible that says Bible alone. Paul talks of holding fast to scripture **and **traditions. In the Gospel of John, it talks of other signs and wonders and things that Jesus taught and did but the world would not be able to contain the books that would be written. It does not make these any less important because they were not written down.
Click to expand...
The reason we don’t have them all is because there were so many but finish it off! John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
Don’t any of you ever quote in context?

Read your Bible! Matthew 15:3-4 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
You say Paul never taught to stay away from the traditions of men?
Colossians 2:6-8 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world**, and not after Christ.**

Beware. De 6:12; Mt 7:15; 10:17; 16:6; Php 3:2; 2Pe 3:17
spoil. Col 4:18; Song 2:15; Jer 29:8; Ro 16:17; Eph 5:6; Heb 13:9; 2Jo 1:8
philosophy. Ac 17:18,32; Ro 1:21-22; 1Co 1:19-23; 3:18; 15:35-36; 2Co 10:5; 1Ti 6:20; 2Ti 2:17; 3:13
after the tradition. Col 4:18; Mt 15:2-9; Mr 7:3-13; Ga 1:14; 1Pe 1:18
the rudiments. or, the elements. Col 4:18; Ga 4:3,9; Eph 2:2
after Christ. Eph 4:20

Seems to me he said lots about tradition of men. I count 17 references from Paul’s writings. This is not even exhaustive.
 
40.png
Luke24:
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit

Luther’s solas, Calvin’s silly philosophy on the whole elect things… :rolleyes:
after the tradition of men
Click to expand...
, after the rudiments of the world**, and not after Christ.**
Click to expand...
again… luther… Calvin… :rolleyes:

“The Catholic Church is a tradition of man – that man is Christ.” :rolleyes:
 
I’m fairly new to Catholic apologetics but one thing comes through loud and clear: There are those non-Catholic Christian churches who will quite happily co exist with catholics and that’s great.

However, there are stridently anti-catholic biased “churches” who are convinced that all catholics are going to hell. They see it as their divine responsibility to divert you from the “error” of your ways and return you to their one, “true” church.

Their strategy and mechanic is breathtaking, they are very organized, very motivated. I myself found myself wavering before two very well spoken Mormons on my doorstep untill I remembered one, tru, inescapable HISTORICAL fact: the early church fathers, as early as Polycarp and Iraneaus (apologies if misspelt) of Antioch referred to the church two or three centuries ofter Christ as the Catholic church.

That’s not a religious point, really - it’s historical fact. These anti-catholic evangelists are relying on the unfortunate fact that the “average” catholic isn’t very well versed in their faith. They come armed with prepared bible verses and “gotcha” sayings that are so emotionally strong on first hearing them that they put the target off-guard.

And that’s how they get you - they get you wavering, and then jump you. I know, I used to do it.

The only defence is start knowing the history of your faith. I’m pretty sure it was Cardinal Newman who said something along the lines of “to be steeped in the history of faith is to become more Catholic, less Protestant”. I know I’m paraphrasing, but you get the point. Unfortunately the reverse is also true - don’t know your faith history and a good sola scripture protestant will get ya!

Cheers from Oz!
 
40.png
RomanRyan1088:
Hello all. For those who don’t know, I posted a thread on this website called " Any Church OK". And i got to say after thinking about it, i believe any church is ok. All God wanted us to do is worship and praise him. All he wanted the people in the old testament to do was believe he was the only God. He never said, “You must be JEWISH” Im starting to believe if you have love for God, the your alright.Whats wrong with this theory. Oh and another thing, my friend said that when Jesus gave the keys to peter, and said " The gates of hell shall not pervail against it", he didn’t mean the CATHOLIC church, he was talking about Christianity in general, and i got to say, it makes sence. Am I wrong to believe this, please i don’t think this is right, but i feel like i have been wrong for a long time. .
Click to expand...
Jesus said "Upon this rock I will build **MY **church. He used a singular not plural form of church. The early church was called catholic due to its Universal mission, (catholic means universal) The teachings and doctrines they taught were thouroughly Catholic not protestant.
 
Wow RomanRyan…! There is obviously some debate about your question. I will only offer you my opinion…
I was Lutheran for 32 years. I have been Catholic for 4 months. I feel more fullness in that short time as a Catholic than I did in 32 years as a Lutheran.
I believe that any Christian church is better than NO church…but if you know Catholicism than why digress? It is the original true church. In my opinion, it is way easier to be Protestant…that’s a lazy way to go. You know what it is to be Catholic. You know the truth. Follow your heart and follow Jesus Christ.
Stay connected to the forum and other people that will support Catholicism. I have family and friends that bash Catholics and hopefully one day I will be good at apologetics and can have some “come backs”, but until then I smile and say, “I’m sorry you feel that way.”
I will keep you in my prayers.

God Bless You
~Weezir
 
RomanRyan-

I will ask you one question and I would love to hear your answer.

Why does the Bible say not to schism from the church if any church is ok?
 
I’ve seen in a letter before the highlighting of Bible verses in Black, Red, and in Capital letters before. Anyone else is it a trait of a particular denomination?
 
The reason we don’t have them all is because there were so many but finish it off! John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
Don’t any of you ever quote in context?
Click to expand...
Luke24,
What particular written form was this verse referring to? It doesn’t specifically says all of the NT books–but only referring to the Gospel being written by the author. And who, btw, proclaim the canons of the Bible? It was the Catholic Church! Would it made Luther right when he subtracted books from the original canon of the Bible which you now follow? How did he determined if he is acting solely in an infallible way?

**
**Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of **
Click to expand...
men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Don’t highlight just the words that you want to argue. Look at the following words in blue. The Church tradition is not a tradition of men but the Church itself–the Mystical Body of Christ–guided by the holy Spirit. Further, it is not after the rudiments of this world but for the sake of the kingdom.

Pio
**
 
40.png
Luke24:
What Jesus is saying is that we had better be doing the works we do in His name for the right reasons and motives.
Click to expand...
Not that I disagree with what you are saying here, but here’s my question. By what authority to you “clarify” what Jesus was saying? Are you an infallible of fallible authority? I don’t mean this in a rude way, I just don’t understand the Protestant practice of believing “bible alone” while also finding it necessary to clarify what Jesus meant by extra-biblical paraphrasing (while not always agreeing upon what Jesus meant).
***Thanks for helping me understand. 🙂 ***
Click to expand...
 
_Christopher_:
RomanRyan-

I will ask you one question and I would love to hear your answer.

Why does the Bible say not to schism from the church if any church is ok?
Click to expand...
It says That?
 
40.png
RomanRyan1088:
It says That?
Click to expand...
uh huh, it sure does. :yup:
1Col 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing and that there be no schisms among you: but that you be perfect in the same mind and in the same judgment.
Click to expand...
 
40.png
AmandaPS:
uh huh, it sure does. :yup:

1Col 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing and that there be no schisms among you: but that you be perfect in the same mind and in the same judgment.
Click to expand...
Uh, oh… Luke24 isn’t gonna like that!!!

I find it quite ironic that Luke24 entered this thread to “save” RomanRyan, and in a round about way, did just that!! Luke24’s baseless incessant rambling has done just what God intended IMHO, and that was to strengthen RomanRyan’s faith in Christ’s original Church.

Good job Luke24!!
 
Yo RomanRyan It seems the other posters are really prepared with these kinds of questions eh. Well may you grow in your faith Journry I’ll pray for ya.

and Peace be with Luke24.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top