Im thinking of leaving the church

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You will be? oh no. You are. 🙂 and whoever believes in Christ and listens to Him is our brother/sister.
:doh2: Yes! I AM and yes, whoever believes in Christ and listens to Him IS our brother/sister. What a huge, diverse family we have! 😃
 
And the bible was written in greek not in latin.
Hi Doberman

You make a very good point here. Catholics are not the only ones who try to claim the fame for writing the Bible; but the Bible says much differently:

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Rev 1:2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

John’s “record” here had nothing to do with “Tradition” it was a written text by which John penned the text to his “record” of “all things that he saw.”

Further, to demonstrate this truth even clearer, we read in the verse following:

Rev 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those **things which are written **therein: for the time is at hand.

God here promises a special blessing to those who read His Word, and “keep” it; and absolutely no mention is made of doing this through the medium of another man’s mind. Saints or Popes are simply the mind of another man; and God tells us clearly to go to Him, and to His Word, for ourselves.
**Eze 14:14 **Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord GOD.
**Eze 14:20 **Though Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, as I live, saith the Lord GOD, they shall deliver neither son nor daughter; they shall but deliver their own souls by their righteousness.
I believe the Holy Spirit is speaking to you personally, through God’s Holy Word. I hope and pray that you will find a Church family that is God’s perfect will for you. There are some very good Protestant Churches out there with people who will help you in your quest to study God’s Word for yourself. I will pray for you and your quest.

Remember; God’s promise is FOR YOU:
**Jer 29:13 **And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.
 
Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Rev 1:2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

John’s “record” here had nothing to do with “Tradition” it was a written text by which John penned the text to his “record” of “all things that he saw.”

Further, to demonstrate this truth even clearer, we read in the verse following:

Rev 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those **things which are written **therein: for the time is at hand.

God here promises a special blessing to those who read His Word, and “keep” it; and absolutely no mention is made of doing this through the medium of another man’s mind. Saints or Popes are simply the mind of another man; and God tells us clearly to go to Him, and to His Word, for ourselves.

Actually it says “Blessed is he that readeth aloud”(NAB). Which would seem to signify that he would be reading to someone else.

If you can interpret it yourself and the Holy Spirit tells you all that you need to know; then why do protestants have preachers/ ministers? And what about all those Bishops and Deacons referred to in the New Testement.
Answer me honestly. If you’re having trouble understanding a verse, do you sit and wait for the Holy Spirit to reveal it to you, or do you ask your preacher for some advice on it?

If you answer honsetly then I would say, why not ask the Church that has been around for over 2000 years?

God Bless!
 
If you can interpret it yourself and the Holy Spirit tells you all that you need to know; then why do protestants have preachers/ ministers? And what about all those Bishops and Deacons referred to in the New Testement.
Answer me honestly. If you’re having trouble understanding a verse, do you sit and wait for the Holy Spirit to reveal it to you, or do you ask your preacher for some advice on it?

If you answer honsetly then I would say, why not ask the Church that has been around for over 2000 years?

God Bless!
Preachers and Ministers are no different; they must also function under the same guidance of Scripture.

Like it or not; The Holy Spirit does convict people individually of truth from God’s Word. How do we know? Because Jesus, through the Bible, tells us this is so:

2Co 6:7 By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left,
**Joh 16:13 **Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
**Joh 16:14 **He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
 
A good site? It made me sick in the stomach! How any Catholic could actually recommend it - astounds me. No wonder you think what you think!

There is absolutely NO knowledge to be learned from it.

“Father, forgive them for they know not what they do!” 😦 :crying: :signofcross:

I will pray for the ‘fog to clear’.
Actually; I have to concur here; that is a REALLY STUPID WEBSITE.
 
And you as a defender of catholisism(spell check) are NOT my brother in christ, for christ has no home in the halls of your Cathedrals.
Where is Chutton at. Chutton you still around? This is what I was talking about.
I have no reason to share
Thats odd. If you have truth like you say you do, that should be enough of a reason to share…
you will only criticize and hide behind masks and go off topic
I may criticize but I don’t like masks, they get hot and are just uncomfortable.
you guys prove to be very slippery, not confronting the issue.
We are Catholics not presidential candidates.
If he wants truth he can come have a private conversation and then put my words to the test
Why don’t you let us put your words to the test?

God bless you spec :crossrc:
 
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Call priests father, e.g., Father McKinley.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS -

Matthew 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

It never ends!
WHAT THE BIBLE ACTUALLY SAYS -

The Apostles Show the Way

The New Testament is filled with examples of and references to spiritual father-son and father-child relationships. Many people are not aware just how common these are, so it is worth quoting some of them here.

Paul regularly referred to Timothy as his child: “Therefore I sent to you Timothy, my beloved and faithful child in the Lord, to remind you of my ways in Christ” (1 Cor. 4:17); “To Timothy, my true child in the faith: grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord” (1 Tim. 1:2); “To Timothy, my beloved child: Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord” (2 Tim. 1:2).

He also referred to Timothy as his son: “This charge I commit to you, Timothy, my son, in accordance with the prophetic utterances which pointed to you, that inspired by them you may wage the good warfare” (1 Tim 1:18); “You then, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus” (2 Tim. 2:1); “But Timothy’s worth you know, how as a son with a father he has served with me in the gospel” (Phil. 2:22).

Paul also referred to other of his converts in this way: “To Titus, my true child in a common faith: grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior” (Titus 1:4); “I appeal to you for my child, Onesimus, whose father I have become in my imprisonment” (Philem. 10). None of these men were Paul’s literal, biological sons. Rather, Paul is emphasizing his spiritual fatherhood with them.

Spiritual Fatherhood

Perhaps the most pointed New Testament reference to the theology of the spiritual fatherhood of priests is Paul’s statement, “I do not write this to make you ashamed, but to admonish you as my beloved children. For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel” (1 Cor. 4:14–15).

Peter followed the same custom, referring to Mark as his son: “She who is at Babylon, who is likewise chosen, sends you greetings; and so does my son Mark” (1 Pet. 5:13). The apostles sometimes referred to entire churches under their care as their children. Paul writes, “Here for the third time I am ready to come to you. And I will not be a burden, for I seek not what is yours but you; for children ought not to lay up for their parents, but parents for their children” (2 Cor. 12:14); and, “My little children, with whom I am again in travail until Christ be formed in you!” (Gal. 4:19).

John said, “My little children, I am writing this to you so that you may not sin; but if any one does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous” (1 John 2:1); “No greater joy can I have than this, to hear that my children follow the truth” (3 John 4). In fact, John also addresses men in his congregations as “fathers” (1 John 2:13–14).

By referring to these people as their spiritual sons and spiritual children, Peter, Paul, and John imply their own roles as spiritual fathers. Since the Bible frequently speaks of this spiritual fatherhood, we Catholics acknowledge it and follow the custom of the apostles by calling priests “father.” Failure to acknowledge this is a failure to recognize and honor a great gift God has bestowed on the Church: the spiritual fatherhood of the priesthood.

Catholics know that as members of a parish, they have been committed to a priest’s spiritual care, thus they have great filial affection for priests and call them “father.” Priests, in turn, follow the apostles’ biblical example by referring to members of their flock as “my son” or “my child” (cf. Gal. 4:19; 1 Tim. 1:18; 2 Tim. 2:1; Philem. 10; 1 Pet. 5:13; 1 John 2:1; 3 John 4).

All of these passages were written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, and they express the infallibly recorded truth that Christ’s ministers do have a role as spiritual fathers. Jesus is not against acknowledging that. It is he who gave these men their role as spiritual fathers, and it is his Holy Spirit who recorded this role for us in the pages of Scripture. To acknowledge spiritual fatherhood is to acknowledge the truth, and no amount of anti-Catholic grumbling will change that fact.

from catholic.com/library/Call_No_Man_Father.asp

Hope this helps. :tiphat:
 
Jesus wa God, the pope is not God, and why communicate with saints? We have God.
Because the saints are part of the Body of Christ just as we are.
Why do you communicate with your pastor or any other fellow believer?
 
well maybe i used the term in the wrong spot not knowing if he truly follows christ yet, but hes on the right path. And you as a defender of catholisism(spell check) are NOT my brother in christ, for christ has no home in the halls of your Cathedrals. I have no reason to share, you will only criticize and hide behind masks and go off topic, you guys prove to be very slippery, not confronting the issue. If he wants truth he can come have a private conversation and then put my words to the test, if he doesnt test them it would be wrong. Its his decision, dont attack me for offering him truth.
Christ has no home in the halls of your Cathdrals? What about in the tabernacles where is He is fully present body, blood, soul and divinety. Read John 6.

We are hiding behind masks and go off topic? Arent you trying to take someone away from the faith? Didn’t St Paul say that this was a sin?

We are not confronting the issue? Are you not trying to go away and not answer questions about our faith but instead spread lies. Don’t you believe in following the 8th commandment?

He will certainly not get the truth from one who would rather hide from those he accuses and spread lies about those he does not understand.

I will pray for you for you are truly a wolf in sheeps clothing.
 
since you didnt quote i dont know if you meant me. ive read the bible and i know about it. I doubt Jesus said man can forgive sins, if he did our faith is futile we have no reason to believe in him if we are stronger. Man is god. is that true? no. So show me the verse. But from now on i will be silent, he can contact me himself if he wishes.
Please state your postion so that we may stop hiding behind masks and dig for the truth.
 
Im thinking of leaving the catholic church for the protestant, iv done a lot of thinking. We have statues of Jesus and saints that we pray to when we have issues. THERE IS EVEN ONE FOR BALDNESS!

Maybe its cause the roman catholic church is roman. The romans accepted God, but they couldnt let go of polytheism and several Gods, maybe thats why we have saints?

Protestants uses the bible, Gods word. All arguments for catholism seems to come from other catholics.
Pray to the Lord. Stay in the Word. Ask Jesus for guidance and direction. Listen to the Holy Spirit. Trust in your relationship with Jesus Christ. I will pray for for you.
 
gods love is in my heart, one of my closest confidants is catholic. you must understand my position. I have learned enough that i can no longer remain silent about the catholic religion and its falsitivity(not sure its a word but you know what i mean). I have nothing against catholics, as my confidant proves. I truly enjoy the company of many of them. But i hate the sin, love the sinner. I would give my life that i might get you all to realize the truth, if it were possible i might even consider damning my own soul to save the Catholics. I love you guys and my heart constantly yearns to see you in Gods kingdom. But i must remain true to God and not condone what you do. Please understand what i mean.
That is stupid talk saying you’d be possibly willing to damn yourself to save others. For one it’s as useless as a man offering to drown himself to save another drowning man.

For two, well - Matthew 13:44 - ‘The kingdom of heaven is like a treasure which a man finds hidden in the field and covers up. He goes and sells everything he has and buys that field’ You, sir, if you are indeed a true Christian should worry about saving your own soul and your own attaining of the Kingdom of Heaven. If you knew anything about God you’d know that he wouldn’t thank you for squandering the one true thing of value that you have, even if you were to manage to save other souls by doing so (which is impossible).

We’re all adults here, I can assure you, and can answer well enough for ourselves in front of God without your misguided attempts to ‘save’ us, as if Christ is neither able nor sufficient to do so but needs your help.
 
hey doberman, if you want to speak with a christian who knows much about the “church” as they call themselves and who can show you more about how catholics arent the right choice, PM me. (email me at e-mail removed as per privacy policy) Im not going to impose my beliefs on you like these guys or try to argue it in, aproach me if you want truth, and truth you will find. If you knock it will be opened. I hope to hear from you.

Your brother in christ,
Kyle
Kyle-

You approached me via PM about speaking privately, as well.

Tell me, my friend, what exactly is so secret about the message that you want to share?

Would you mind sharing it with all of us?
 
I know thats why im still here. But these “people” influences the church…
The only “people” that you need to concern yourself with right now is yourself. Are you committing idolatry? Are you breaking the commandments? If everyone who was thinking of leaving the church focused on personal growth (reading their bible, going to sacraments, and study of catechism) then the church would be much holier!
I have full understanding. And no i havent left the catholic church. And dont think I ever will. Im just saying there are great flaws in it.
In your heart you are already leaving, Doberman. You have fallen into a judgemental attitude toward your brethren about their devotional practices. If your brother can look a a statue or a picture of the Lord or one of the saint and enter into a better prayer, then good for your brother! Who are you to judge him and find him wanting? You have measured the popes and the teaching of the church in your balance and found it wanting. You have judged the lack of holiness in others. You are exposing yourself to error by talking to protestants and anti-Catholic web sites. So, if you ever did have both feet in the door, which I am doubting, you surely have one of them outside already!

The purpose of becoming aware of flaws is so that we can work on them in ourselves, not condemn others who have them. If you are called to minister Christ to others, why are you seeking to run from the ministry to which you are called ? You will end up in the belly of the whale.

If you don’t care for these devotionals, don’t use them. Sit with Jesus and your Bible, and pray your bible.
 
gods love is in my heart, one of my closest confidants is catholic. you must understand my position. I have learned enough that i can no longer remain silent about the catholic religion and its falsitivity(not sure its a word but you know what i mean). I have nothing against catholics, as my confidant proves. I truly enjoy the company of many of them. But i hate the sin, love the sinner. I would give my life that i might get you all to realize the truth, if it were possible i might even consider damning my own soul to save the Catholics. I love you guys and my heart constantly yearns to see you in Gods kingdom. But i must remain true to God and not condone what you do. Please understand what i mean.
Tell you what…you know how slippery we papists can be…why not pick one topic, one verse, one issue - your pick…and start a thread on that?

The moderators will keep us on topic, and we’ll discuss it as long as you like.

Remember, you have to be really focused…just one topic at a time. Just think of the possibilities: indulgences, the Crusades, Mary worship, the Inquisition, salvation by works…there’s almost too many things to choose from!

But you can only pick one at a time 'cause we’re slippery papists.

How’s that sound?
 
Muslims that are terrorists are the real muslims. The “secular” muslims are much like most christians. Choose their own laws and scriptures from the bible.
:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

:signofcross: :highprayer: :gopray2: :gopray:

As previously said, I will pray for the ‘fog to clear.’
 
since you didnt quote i dont know if you meant me. ive read the bible and i know about it. I doubt Jesus said man can forgive sins, if he did our faith is futile we have no reason to believe in him if we are stronger. Man is god. is that true? no. So show me the verse. But from now on i will be silent, he can contact me himself if he wishes.
I didn’t read the entire thread, but I did see your request for these passages, so here are a couple of them, there are more, but these two should suffice to answer you question of where Jesus might have given men the authority to forgive sins.
You might also want to read this article on “forgiveness of sins

Matthew 9:1-8
He entered a boat, made the crossing, and came into his own town. And there people brought to him a paralytic lying on a stretcher. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, “Courage, child, your sins are forgiven.” At that, some of the scribes said to themselves, “This man is blaspheming.” Jesus knew what they were thinking, and said, “Why do you harbor evil thoughts? Which is easier, to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Rise and walk’? But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins” --he then said to the paralytic, “Rise, pick up your stretcher, and go home.” He rose and went home. When the crowds saw this they were struck with awe and glorified God who had given such authority to human beings.

John 20:21–23
Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.”
 
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