I'm tired of part-time Catholics in VISIBLE roles at the Mass

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Two points that I hope may help you:

One is the words of Jesus in Matthew 18:15-17
15 "If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother.
16 But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every word may be confirmed by the evidence of two or three witnesses.
17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.
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Also, as frustrating as your situation may be, it’s important to remember why you are at Mass, and who the Mass is for. Our own personal satisfaction for the Mass and those who come to serve the Lord are irrelevant to what is really occurring on the altar; where the Son of the Living God is offered on behalf of us all.

While it may be virtuous to speak charitably to these people in an attempt to help lead them to a deeper understanding of the Mass and the teachings of the Church and possibly necessary to elevate your concern to your Priest, over worrying about these kinds of things serves as a distraction at best, and Donatism at worst.
 
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Duesenberg said:
One secularly divorced EMHC met another secularly divorced individual at Sunday Mass. Of course she soon became an EMHC. Then they moved in together and they are VERY public about this. It’s disheartening.
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Duessenberg, I had to check your profile, wanted to be sure it wasn’t my parish, because it sounded like it 🙂

Lets all be understanding to the pastors that inherit a parish in disarray. It’s a tough job managing not just egos, but outright disobedience. That’s what my pastor had to do, and he’s nearly turned the entire situation from dire, to promising. Gossip can also be very scandalous , so lets all behave ourselves and be the model for other faithful Catholics to follow. And lets let our Presbyterian brothers and sisters take in our undesirables 🙂
 
Catholicos said:
Lets all be understanding to the pastors that inherit a parish in disarray. It’s a tough job managing not just egos, but outright disobedience. That’s what my pastor had to do, and he’s nearly turned the entire situation from dire, to promising. Gossip can also be very scandalous , so lets all behave ourselves and be the model for other faithful Catholics to follow. And lets let our Presbyterian brothers and sisters take in our undesirables
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I agree – it’s a lot of very hard work. The problem I see is that my pastor and a number before him simply don’t want to do the heavy lifting and the problems only get worse.
 
Duesenberg said:
I agree – it’s a lot of very hard work. The problem I see is that my pastor and a number before him simply don’t want to do the heavy lifting and the problems only get worse.
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Hopefully you folks are blessed with a good Archbishop, because that’s the next line of defense. Our Archbishop recognized the problems going on. Things manifested into financial problems, not just the disarray with procedures. If it gets serious and you’ve already spoken to the pastor, ya might have to look into going higher up… Who knows, maybe the pastor really can’t handle it, and would prefer to be elsewhere. It’s what’s best for the faithful and the good of the parish . A good pastor will understand that, especially if he knows it’s Gods will, not that he necessarily personally failed in his pastoral work.

Those Catholics who really are carrying on with the foolishness. At some point they move on. If their hearts and faith are not really with God and the parish, they fall away, out of sight, out of mind
 
Catholicos said:
Things manifested into financial problems, not just the disarray with procedures. If it gets serious and you’ve already spoken to the pastor, ya might have to look into going higher up…
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He’s actually a competent bureaucrat. But it’s like the entire parish is some sort of state-run institution. For example, it’s only important that there is a Mass. It’s not important what transpires before, during and after the Mass. My parish’s issues aren’t just a matter of “disarray with the procedures.” It’s almost as if the soul of my parish is dead and it has been for a long time and what remains is a processing station for the sacraments.
 
Duesenberg said:
He’s actually a competent bureaucrat. But it’s like the entire parish is some sort of state-run institution. For example, it’s only important that there is a Mass. It’s not important what transpires before, during and after the Mass. My parish’s issues aren’t just a matter of “disarray with the procedures.” It’s almost as if the soul of my parish is dead and it has been for a long time and what remains is a processing station for the sacraments.
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Believe me, I understand how you feel. I recently revisited the parish of my childhood. It took on a total transformation. Really, it’s totally unrecognizable with the renovation. It doesn’t look the least bit Catholic. The only thing they got correct was the direction the altar was facing. There is no way I’d attend that parish today and it saddens me to see what its become.
Just take care not to let your faith waiver. Maybe God had a bigger role for you, even if you didn’t want it, or expect it. All these things will pass, you’ll do the correct thing, whether you remain, or move on
 
Catholicos said:
Believe me, I understand how you feel. I recently revisited the parish of my childhood. It took on a total transformation. Really, it’s totally unrecognizable with the renovation. It doesn’t look the least bit Catholic. The only thing they got correct was the direction the altar was facing. There is no way I’d attend that parish today and it saddens me to see what its become.

Just take care not to let your faith waiver. Maybe God had a bigger role for you, even if you didn’t want it, or expect it. All these things will pass, you’ll do the correct thing, whether you remain, or move on
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That’s a very critical point. I’ve seen a huge number of people leave the parish over the years because they personally have been treated poorly or they just got tired of all the malarkey. A minority of these people joined another Catholic parish or went the Orthodox/Protestant route. Most just fade away from faith altogether. It’s horrific to witness and the parish makes no effort to bring them back of course. That’s really where my displeasure comes from.

As for myself, like MANY others, I’m very careful about my relationship with my parish. I avail myself to the sacraments. I continue on with a couple of ministries I have taken part in for a very long time. But the rest I keep my distance from. There is a real sense of peace that comes from disengaging with parish politics – being able to say “no.” That helps a lot.
 
Duesenberg said:
That’s a very critical point. I’ve seen a huge number of people leave the parish over the years because they personally have been treated poorly or they just got tired of all the malarkey. A minority of these people joined another Catholic parish or went the Orthodox/Protestant route. Most just fade away from faith altogether. It’s horrific to witness and the parish makes no effort to bring them back of course. That’s really where my displeasure comes from.
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What I started to realize over time is I could do more for not just the parish but the Catholic faith itself by showing non-Catholics the many wonderful things we believe. This is especially true for Catholics who have fallen away. I’ve seen many not just fall away, but their anger towards religion in general is beyond belief. It’s at that point where I feel, this is where I have to take great care. It really is mission. All can be lost and the last thing I want is cause any further damage.

I’m a little annoyed at how small groups int he parish make the duties and the gatherings a social club. It is why i didn’t get too involved when i saw it going that way. I would certainly help if they really needed me, but I was always mindful of where i could really be the most help. We have tons of EM’s, they don’t need another, it’s not a small parish, but it’s not a huge one that the EM’s can’t handle.

I know of a parishioner that left several months ago. He was a very kind person, well liked and performed many duties. , He messaged me on FB and told me he was leaving. Normally I would convince him to stay. However , he often gossiped nonstop, he posted things on FB that was very disrespectful to the pastor, and I could not support him, even if at one point he was friend. To me, it was better he moved on and i haven’t seen him since. It was best for everyone. He would do more damage inside, causing division and conflict. Even if he joined a protestant church , I probably wouldn’t discuss things further, since that way he conducted himself wasn’t very Catholic at all. It all works out for the best. Faith, time and patience is needed in the meantime
 
Catholicos said:
“…he often gossiped nonstop, he posted things on FB that was very disrespectful to the pastor…”
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That sort of behavior is obviously unacceptable…

I don’t think I would ever really get involved with my parish in things outside of the sacraments or the ministries I am already involved with simply because I don’t want to expose myself to all the nefarious stuff that goes on. Unless of course a real leader for a pastor showed up and things really began to change for the better.

A number of years ago my parish paid a consulting firm $$$ to conduct a survey. We actually took the survey in place of the homily one Sunday. It was a big, serious dealio. We were also encouraged to send letters to the consulting firm, care of the parish, outlining our concerns, delights, etc.

We never heard back about the results of the poll. That remains shocking to me. I’m sure the polling and letters contained truths the pastor didn’t want to hear.
 
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pianistclare said:
something about the priest and that he likely does not train the trainers of ministry…

I’m also very glad that the OP has FINALLY stated the root problem he is angry about.

Thank the Lord!

Now. How to help? We all know that when we take som
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Pope Francis has suggested that couples in irregular unions be fully included in parish life… I struggle with it on principle… but ultimately its up to the pastor.
 
Duesenberg said:
A number of years ago my parish paid a consulting firm $$$ to conduct a survey. We actually took the survey in place of the homily one Sunday. It was a big, serious dealio. We were also encouraged to send letters to the consulting firm, care of the parish, outlining our concerns, delights, etc.
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We don’t have to reveal it, but yep, we’re from the same parish 🙂 And even if we’re not, the same thing happened to us. No one on this forum has to know, I’ll just ask this question, and based on the answer we’ll know ourselves. What’s the vocational chalice for?
 
Catholicos said:
What’s the vocational chalice for?
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The only chalice I know of like that in my parish is one that the KofC gives out now and then.

We don’t have Masses celebrated using a certain chalice or anything like that.
 
twf said:
Pope Francis has suggested that couples in irregular unions be fully included in parish life… I struggle with it on principle… but ultimately its up to the pastor.
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In AL, that inclusion is recognized to have limits according to the circumstances of the couple. For the divorced only, there is no similar concern.
 
With regards to that parish survey near the end of the homily, all I can remember is I gave the pastor good marks given the many of the problems he inherited,

My biggest criticisms was were the way the liturgy was conducted at times. Many of the Homiles ignore the rich history and heritage of our faith. Speak to me about St. Augustine, St Thomas Aquinas, the great councils and what they did so that we could appreciate what we have today.

I didn’t quite know how to address what your topic was in in this thread, but I would probably write: EM’s need to be more limited in their role. It is true, many parishioners will just pack up and go to another parish, if the leadership at the top doesn’t really address and accept their role and authority.
 
I thought the same thing! It happens in alot of parishes…
 
The issues raised in this thread by the OP are common/standard operating procedure in most Catholic parishes in liberal parts of the country, the Northeast or the West Coast for example. The norm. I have never been in a parish that is not like this. Is this gossip or filial correction going on here - probably unfortunately a little bit of both. Not sure how to avoid that. Just for the record, we could also be talking about any mainstream liberal Protestant Church: Anglican/Lutheran/Methodist, etc., anywhere in the US. I don’t know what else there is to be said. Will this crusade of our OP succeed? Doubt it. But, hey, a prophet’s reward…let’s keep it filial though, lest we lose our reward. Remember the Pharisee and the tax collector. Again, I agree these are valid concerns. But it opens one to the temptation of anger, bitterness. Don’t let that get the best of the crusade.
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No, I have never heard of such a thing. I think posting this on the internet is probably the least useful thing that can be done. The options that remain are to speak to the priest, write the bishop if that fails, or get involved and try to lead with example.

The closest thing I have heard of, and this one is legitimate, is when some professional musicians, usually organist, play for other churches.
 
The Internet is just an outlet. This would get political and be perceived as antagonistic at the parish level or possibly even the bishop level. Just a fact. This kind of posting probably does good and harm. I don’t think people should be stopped from doing this - each of us can decide what we think about it. And yes these kinds of experiences are common, not rare. And they are demoralizing.
 
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FollowChrist34 said:
The issues raised in this thread by the OP are common/standard operating procedure in most Catholic parishes in liberal parts of the country, the Northeast or the West Coast for example. The norm. I have never been in a parish that is not like this. Is this gossip or filial correction going on here - probably unfortunately a little bit of both. Not sure how to avoid that. Just for the record, we could also be talking about any mainstream liberal Protestant Church: Anglican/Lutheran/Methodist, etc., anywhere in the US. I don’t know what else there is to be said. Will this crusade of our OP succeed? Doubt it. But, hey, a prophet’s reward…let’s keep it filial though, lest we lose our reward. Remember the Pharisee and the tax collector. Again, I agree these are valid concerns. But it opens one to the temptation of anger, bitterness. Don’t let that get the best of the crusade.
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I’m not sure that’s really true. While I do live in California, I have visited a number of parishes where this sort of thing just wouldn’t be allowed – liberal or not. It has a great deal more to due with parish leadership (or lack thereof.)

I’m not on any “crusade.” It’s simply not worth it – at least not without a good shepherd.
 
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