Immodesty and the lack of respect for women - two sides of the same coin.

  • Thread starter Thread starter stccp
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Joseph,

I wish I knew what was in your mind when you posted those articles. Articles by themselves always feel so cold. I’m sure you know that no one is advocating going to Liturgy in Rhianna’s (sp?) clothing, and no one, as I see it, is advocating immodesty itself. I agree with you, in that a sense of modestly should be cultivated, especially in the Church, but we can’t cultivate a sense of modestly properly if we are at the same time developing a sense of prudery and loathing of the body. An overly puritanical “modesty” makes a mockery of true modesty, makes it an impossible and undesireable end, and insults the sacredness of the body.

The Vatican’s requirements really are reasonable, but the requirements from Manila (collared shrits, really?) seem less “modesty” requirements than stylistic requirements. There is nothing more modest about collared shirts or office attire. When we start letting our personal style preferences dictate how others dress, we’ve left the pursuit of modesty behind.
 
Joseph,

Unfortunately, no matter how much you bark and post this information, people are going to continue to dress in a way that you don’t like (to mass).
LOL… I’m going to wear some really REALLY REALLY dark sunglasses to church… :cool: 😛 😃
 
What I don’t understand is why the OP would be so threatened by women wearing decent and modest looking summer shirts, shorts, and sleeveless shirts to church or in general. Unless you’re going to a special church at the Vatican (where one should expect more modest dress codes) why is it such a big deal?

Whatever happened to modesty of the heart? It doesn’t matter how much of a sandbag I dress into to make myself modest, if I think I am better and holier than thou art because of my modesty, I’m better off just strolling around in a miniskirt without leggings.
But didn’t you know that Catholics are supposed to act holier-than-thou? That is part of the Catechism I think. 😛
 
Joseph,

I wish I knew what was in your mind when you posted those articles. Articles by themselves always feel so cold. I’m sure you know that no one is advocating going to Liturgy in Rhianna’s (sp?) clothing, and no one, as I see it, is advocating immodesty itself. I agree with you, in that a sense of modestly should be cultivated, especially in the Church, but we can’t cultivate a sense of modestly properly if we are at the same time developing a sense of prudery and loathing of the body. An overly puritanical “modesty” makes a mockery of true modesty, makes it an impossible and undesireable end, and insults the sacredness of the body.

The Vatican’s requirements really are reasonable, but the requirements from Manila (collared shrits, really?) seem less “modesty” requirements than stylistic requirements. There is nothing more modest about collared shirts or office attire. When we start letting our personal style preferences dictate how others dress, we’ve left the pursuit of modesty behind.
Masha, I looked at that photo of Rihanna, and yep - that’s what I see inside the Catholic church buildings, in Miami. :eek:
 
Masha, I looked at that photo of Rihanna, and yep - that’s what I see inside the Catholic church buildings, in Miami. :eek:
Are you serious!!! You live in Miami? Then I’m sure you’re not over-reacting at all!

I live in a more conservative city where I don’t see that much immodesty at mass really.
 
Masha, I looked at that photo of Rihanna, and yep - that’s what I see inside the Catholic church buildings, in Miami. :eek:
In that case, darling, you “bark” all you want ;)…I’ve never been to Miami, but I’ve seen some photos, and 😊 even a crazy bohemienne like me was shocked. I was hoping it was only a small, small portion of the city 😦
 
Are you serious!!! You live in Miami? Then I’m sure you’re not over-reacting at all!

I live in a more conservative city where I don’t see that much immodesty at mass really.
Actually, I’m going to wear a blind man’s sunglasses to church. :cool:

I will only need a service dog to walk me to my pew! :rotfl:

There’s a blind guy who attends church downtown, and he has the most polite, friendliest, most adorable service dog. It should be a good ploy, it will give me an excuse to borrow his cute doggy. 😛
 
Actually, I’m going to wear a blind man’s sunglasses to church. :cool:

I will only need a service dog to walk me to my pew! :rotfl:

There’s a blind guy who attends church downtown, and he has the most polite, friendliest, most adorable service dog. It should be a good ploy, it will give me an excuse to borrow his cute doggy. 😛
You heard of Fr. Cute otherwise known as Fr. Oprah?

All the more reason to pray for our priests and keep them holy.
 
In that case, darling, you “bark” all you want ;)…I’ve never been to Miami, but I’ve seen some photos, and 😊 even a crazy bohemienne like me was shocked. I was hoping it was only a small, small portion of the city 😦
You know, that dress of Rihanna on the photo is kind of on the long side, compared to what women are wearing here.

I need my extra-extra dark sunglasses and a service dog to church, and then we can bark together! 😃 (but we won’t bark inside the church, I promise :cool:)
 
You heard of Fr. Cute otherwise known as Fr. Oprah?

All the more reason to pray for our priests and keep them holy.
Yeah, do you have French people up there in Canada? Fr. Cutie has a French name, which is correctly pronounced something like Ku-tee-yay according to French pronunciation, but people were jokingly calling him a “cutie”, because he is really a cute, handsome man. Unfortunately, his (former) church (St. Francis of Sales church) is right there on South Beach, and I rather won’t tell you how are many of those brides and bridesmaids dressed who have their weddings there in that church. I really felt sorry for Fr. Cutie, and any other priests who have these seductively clothed young ladies invading their churches. I mean, yes they are celibate, but overwhelmingly priests are healthy heterosexual males who have to deal with those sights somehow!
 
Are you talking about Tinkerbell, and the Geat Fairy Rescue?Seems to me tinkerbell has always worn this sort of costume. NO???
No, you can see that if you google images of tinkerbell. Her costume has shrunk dramatically over time. It is now a strapless minidress. It used to be a full outfit including leggings and pointed slippers. But this change happened over a long period of time. Those people who are just seeing tinkerbell from the newer Disney videos wouldn’t have picked up on the change.

Edited to Add: Perhaps I am wrong. I just did a google search to find the images I remember seeing, and now I cannot find them. I thought I remembered a pre-Disney illustration for the actual books as being more modest and less buxom. I will continue looking as I have time, and will post a link if I find it. Sorry about the confusion!
 
No, you can see that if you google images of tinkerbell. Her costume has shrunk dramatically over time. It is now a strapless minidress. It used to be a full outfit including leggings and pointed slippers. But this change happened over a long period of time. Those people who are just seeing tinkerbell from the newer Disney videos wouldn’t have picked up on the change.
Or the older Disney videos - this is Tink in the 1953 film - strapless minidress.
blogs.families.com/media/tinkerbell1.jpg

I do agree that the new version is somehow “sexier”…there’s something very slick and skanky about it. And I prefer illustrations like those done by Arthur Rackham and Trina Schart Hyman (and hate the Disneyfication of such a fabulous, witty, biting book). But strapless minidress Tink has been around for at least 57 years - more than half of the story’s life. I’d call it disappointing, but not new.
 
Or the older Disney videos - this is Tink in the 1953 film - strapless minidress.
blogs.families.com/media/tinkerbell1.jpg

I do agree that the new version is somehow “sexier”…there’s something very slick and skanky about it. And I prefer illustrations like those done by Arthur Rackham and Trina Schart Hyman (and hate the Disneyfication of such a fabulous, witty, biting book). But strapless minidress Tink has been around for at least 57 years - more than half of the story’s life. I’d call it disappointing, but not new.
My research shows that the original illustrations were the more modest ones, but that Disney himself was responsible for oversexing the pixie. See here:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinker_Bell
I googled images for Tinker Bell J.M. Barrie classic illustrations and found many older (and some newer) illustrations that show a less curvaceous sex kitten version of Tink. So, at least I am not crazy for thinking that I remember these. I had read an illustrated Peter Pan as a child, as well as seeing the original Disney film, and I must have mentally melded the two memories together.
For things like Peter Pan and Winnie the Pooh, we far too often forget that Walt Disney did not create these beloved stories, he simply adapted and animated them for film.
 
Ok… I just found a link to a talk show… The language, though no swearing is less than proper… BE WARNED

But there is a pic to tink… how she went SEXY, and is BACK…

Notice how she has a boys body now ZERO HIPS, and NO THIGHS… interesting now??? Do you think there is something to defeminizing that makes her more acceptable?

Could she have the same curves, highlights, and big doe eyes??? and the new costume and NOT be sexy? Anyone good at photo shop?
 
Thanks, mommamaree!

Peter Pan is one of my favorite books but I have never seen a stage adaptation and my earliest edition is the Schart Hyman one from 1980. I’m saving up for older editions 😉

I agree that Walt Disney oversexed her (although the original was not sexless) and I blame Disney for a lot LOL. I’m not a fan at all.
 
Tinkerbell doesn’t always look like that Fall Ensemble she has on in the link.

My DD has the film “Tinkerbell”. It’s the story of how she came to be. She is a “Tinker” fairy…so she can build things.

She still has the same little green outfit. The other outfit with the leggings is specific to the film *Tinker Bell and the Lost Treasure * She travels uo to the north, so she needs to bundle up. 😃
 
Tinkerbell doesn’t always look like that Fall Ensemble she has on in the link.

My DD has the film “Tinkerbell”. It’s the story of how she came to be. She is a “Tinker” fairy…so she can build things.

She still has the same little green outfit. The other outfit with the leggings is specific to the film *Tinker Bell and the Lost Treasure * She travels uo to the north, so she needs to bundle up. 😃
BESIDES the clothing… look at the rest of her. Her hair is no longer highlighted. Her eyes are drawn smaller, no arched eye brow. Her eye make-up is nill, her lips are pink, not reddish, and are drawn less heart shaped. She has more baby fat in her cheeks, as opposed to a more gaunt look. She appears flat chested (could be that leaf). NO Hips. No curvy thighs.

Personally, I would LOVE to see a drawing with the same big doe eyes, high arch NO make up, same bust line, same hips and thighs in the leggings. Same heart shaped lips, but no lipstick. And the same gaunt cheeks. I would like to see if she still looks “sexy”.

My point is, sometimes a BODY is sexy, and it might look sexy no matter what you put it in. Short of a sac. And some people are going to look more sexy in an outfit identical to another who is built like a boy.

It’s a combo… don’t you think?

So back to topic. My parish has 2 communities. One older and white, the other all ages/Hispanic.

What you see walking out of the hispanic mass is unbelievable. I watched one women who looked like she just got off work from a strip joint walk into mass. Fishnets, spiked heels, Short shorts with her cheeks hanging out. A shirt that exposed her belly, Which was fat, and oozing out… and a sequined purse. Dragging a little boy in tow. NOW THAT is what I call distateful. And unacceptable. And I’m trying to imagine ANYONE looking at her in a lustful way. More like, jaw on the floor, you’ve got to be kidding me!

Dressing half naked has nothing to do with sexy anymore. (not always) It’s just really bad taste. And those that get all excited… Guess what? They have really bad taste too, and I’m going to venture deserve the same amount of respect they think these women command.
 
Personally, I would LOVE to see a drawing with the same big doe eyes, high arch NO make up, same bust line, same hips and thighs in the leggings. Same heart shaped lips, but no lipstick. And the same gaunt cheeks. I would like to see if she still looks “sexy”.

My point is, sometimes a BODY is sexy, and it might look sexy no matter what you put it in. Short of a sac. And some people are going to look more sexy in an outfit identical to another who is built like a boy.
This is what I was attempting to get at with the whole “body hate” thing. I work with a young lady who is in her early 20’s and has a VERY feminine shape. She is a tad overweight yes, so it makes her pear-shape even more so obvious. But I can also tell she tries to cover up to the best of her ability, but there’s no going around the fact that she has what many would call “child-bearing hips.” I personally would never say that to someone but there’s no covering her hips any more than she possibly can. Unless she was to wear a dress fitted to her hips but I hate to say it, she’d look more like she was wearing a ridiculous tent for clothing than anything else.

And from a personal note, my bust is huge. Not bragging because it’s not exactly a source of comfort either:( I try a lot to cover up what I can and this involves using layers with tanks, camisoles, etc. even in the hot heat of the summer. Yet, there’s not much more I can do. I’m constantly having to “pull” up and adjust my shirts because well when you’re as big as me let’s just say they like to assist gravity with pulling things down:shrug: Sometimes I’ll wear a high-cut shirt that’s meant to be an inch away from my collarbone junction in the middle of my neck, but by the end of the day the neckline has traveled south. The only way I could avoid it would be if I was to wear turtlenecks and very high-cut shirts but ironically enough-- people have told me those clothing choices draw MORE attention to my bust. I’ve also been told offensive names and terms which I won’t repeat here due to not wanting to get reprimanded. I think in my case it’s more about the lack of respect-- along with my coworker-- because we can’t help how our bodies are shaped. What am I supposed to do, get a breast reduction? Let’s see how well that would go over with the husband:rolleyes:

Has it occurred to anyone that perhaps a root cause to some of these issues has to do with parenting? When my husband and I go to church and we see these little teeny-boppers wearing miniskirts or low-cut henley’s and they’re being accompanied by parents-- we should be looking to them first, not the children. It also makes me shake my head when hear stories on the news about how girls couldn’t get into their dance for school because the school thought their dresses were immodest, and then the parents get outraged over it. Um hello, if the school explicitly stated that dresses were to be modest beforehand, shouldn’t one as a parent exercise their good judgment and make sure it actually IS modest?
 
And from a personal note, my bust is huge. Not bragging because it’s not exactly a source of comfort either:( I try a lot to cover up what I can and this involves using layers with tanks, camisoles, etc. even in the hot heat of the summer. Yet, there’s not much more I can do. I’m constantly having to “pull” up and adjust my shirts because well when you’re as big as me let’s just say they like to assist gravity with pulling things down:shrug: Sometimes I’ll wear a high-cut shirt that’s meant to be an inch away from my collarbone junction in the middle of my neck, but by the end of the day the neckline has traveled south. The only way I could avoid it would be if I was to wear turtlenecks and very high-cut shirts but ironically enough-- people have told me those clothing choices draw MORE attention to my bust. I’ve also been told offensive names and terms which I won’t repeat here due to not wanting to get reprimanded. I think in my case it’s more about the lack of respect-- along with my coworker-- because we can’t help how our bodies are shaped. What am I supposed to do, get a breast reduction? Let’s see how well that would go over with the husband:rolleyes:
I’m in the same boat with you. My mom always said that I could make a turtleneck low cut. Except that I don’t get rude remarks. I just have guys that somehow their jaws have become unhinged. :eek: But I know one day that my future husband will enjoy them. 😊 But yeah, dressing modestly is hard, unless I want to wear a mumu.

My mom said that one day I will love my chest, and I do. It has gotten me out of a driving ticket before (of course, I was in a cheerleading outfit after practice, so that might have played a part).
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top