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StFrancisXavier
Guest
Ohhhhh
Immodesty and the lack of respect for women - two sides of the same coin.
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CountrySinger
Guest
Yes it is. I watched a couple episodes, and then my brain left my body because of the stupidity.I think it is some kind of pseudo-reality TV show about people who live in New Jersey. I haven’t seen it, but people who have told me not to waste my time with it.
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Prayerfully
Guest
Be thankful you don’t know!!
It’s a trashy reality show and it’s about a bunch of nasty spoiled young adults in NJ. They have no morals. I was channel-surfing one night and happened upon it. It was like a train wreck- I wanted to look away but couldn’t. I just kept watching until it showed that Snookie girl asleep in a chair while her friend and boyfriend got intimate in the bed IN THE SAME ROOM! I changed the channel and locked the specific channel from our remote!
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StFrancisXavier
Guest
Yeah, I dont need to see that.
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Prayerfully
Guest
It’s one of those things I wish I hadn’t have seen!!
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CountrySinger
Guest
What has been seen can’t be unseen!
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mellowcalico
Guest
I wore slacks to Church today for the first time in months. It was just too cold and too breezy for a skirt. I am sitting here now dressed in two sweaters, slippers, etc. And at least wearing pants, I didn’t have to worry about them flying up in the air and embarrassing me. I dressed my daughter in slacks too for the same reason. I don’t think anyone really cared. I know I didn’t care what anyone else was wearing. In fact, I can’t even remember what the people sitting around me were dressed in.
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Serap
Guest
I’ve watched every episode LOL
I can’t help it. It’s so hilarious the way they act. I’m like are these people for real???
They refer to unattractive women as “grenades” (did I spell that right?) and they refer to hoochies as “DTF” (I can’t tell you what that stands for it’s so horrible).
I just laugh my head off at the stupidity. It makes me feel better about myself
I am sooooo modest compared to these people
Pharisee or Tax Collector…hmmmmm…
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Serap
Guest
Thanks! That means a lot coming from a woman (I assume you are female). Us women have to support eachother even if our opinions are different.
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C_S_P_B
Guest
Every attempt to control men instituted by women has failed. The unintended consequences have always made circumstances worse for women and children Women have never been unhappier. Women’s fear of men’s sexuality and desire to control men has existed since Genesis and was fanned by the Protestant Reformation, the Age of Enlightenment, Marxism, Suffrage, Feminism and now the current Age of Entitlement. Attempts to control other women to control men are equally doomed to failure. Yes, some men have also led the demise, often by inciting or manipulating women or at the behest of a woman.
Think about the results of the women led (or supported) rallies for Circumcision, Prohibition, banning Prostitution, Abortion, No-Fault Divorce, Reproductive Rights, and Anti-discrimination quotas. All these are based in some part on women’s fear of men’s sexuality. This necessitates some historical thinking and evaluation of the condition of the family today compared to that of 100 years ago.
It would be much more productive to shame women that divorce rather than trying to shame Catholic faithfully married women that dress in a manner that some deem inappropriate. But this would involve a face-to-face interaction with the women in REAL LIFE. Some actions count WAY more than others. The best means of instilling modesty in girls, is a father present in the home. Way too many fathers are absent because of the 50% divorce rate of which 70% are initiated by women. Then the father is restricted from seeing his children and the woman is deemed most fit to have custody.
Men want a good woman and this cannot be reduced to a calculation of what percentage of skin she is showing. Yes, if a woman is TOO scantily clad, a man will automatically place her in the “tramp” category. That is mostly based on her choice. A beautiful woman wearing a bikini on the beach does not warrant this categorization. No father wants his daughter to dress like a tramp.
Just forget about what may be going on in the mind of a man. Men DO judge intent and as I’ve said before men are crass. Men do have integrity. Most men are good fathers, and even some internal or external immoral behavior does not negate this. Society and the family is destroyed by saying some men are bad and then legally passing laws that incite “license” to divorce because of “feelings”, and then the state punishes every man in a divorce situation. The children are the real victims and no society can maintain morality under these conditions. Some injustice must be accepted or everyone suffers, which is the current situation.
Men do not typically appease our male buddies out of fear of hurting their feelings. Men are more truthful and women more diplomatic (willing to stretch the truth or empathize with a girlfriend to avoid saying the truth in person.) In this way it would be better for women to act like men in REAL LIFE and begin to shame women for choices that result in children grown up without fathers. This would ACTUALLY make a difference in society.
My opinion may not be “nice” but it also is not un-Catholic or without merit.
Immodesty is a symptom of an immoral society. This is a primary symptom of the divorce culture. Many girls and women seek male attention and love through the only means they can since they did not receive “disinterested love” from their fathers. “Disinterested love” is a JPII term for love without any favors reciprocated, i.e. no sexuality. This is what a father is supposed to do. Women that are missing this key piece often act out sexually and dress to get the attention of men. Women don’t even know that this is what they are doing but are just attempting to fill the emptiness and be loved.
Think about the results of the women led (or supported) rallies for Circumcision, Prohibition, banning Prostitution, Abortion, No-Fault Divorce, Reproductive Rights, and Anti-discrimination quotas. All these are based in some part on women’s fear of men’s sexuality. This necessitates some historical thinking and evaluation of the condition of the family today compared to that of 100 years ago.
It would be much more productive to shame women that divorce rather than trying to shame Catholic faithfully married women that dress in a manner that some deem inappropriate. But this would involve a face-to-face interaction with the women in REAL LIFE. Some actions count WAY more than others. The best means of instilling modesty in girls, is a father present in the home. Way too many fathers are absent because of the 50% divorce rate of which 70% are initiated by women. Then the father is restricted from seeing his children and the woman is deemed most fit to have custody.
Men want a good woman and this cannot be reduced to a calculation of what percentage of skin she is showing. Yes, if a woman is TOO scantily clad, a man will automatically place her in the “tramp” category. That is mostly based on her choice. A beautiful woman wearing a bikini on the beach does not warrant this categorization. No father wants his daughter to dress like a tramp.
Just forget about what may be going on in the mind of a man. Men DO judge intent and as I’ve said before men are crass. Men do have integrity. Most men are good fathers, and even some internal or external immoral behavior does not negate this. Society and the family is destroyed by saying some men are bad and then legally passing laws that incite “license” to divorce because of “feelings”, and then the state punishes every man in a divorce situation. The children are the real victims and no society can maintain morality under these conditions. Some injustice must be accepted or everyone suffers, which is the current situation.
Men do not typically appease our male buddies out of fear of hurting their feelings. Men are more truthful and women more diplomatic (willing to stretch the truth or empathize with a girlfriend to avoid saying the truth in person.) In this way it would be better for women to act like men in REAL LIFE and begin to shame women for choices that result in children grown up without fathers. This would ACTUALLY make a difference in society.
My opinion may not be “nice” but it also is not un-Catholic or without merit.
Immodesty is a symptom of an immoral society. This is a primary symptom of the divorce culture. Many girls and women seek male attention and love through the only means they can since they did not receive “disinterested love” from their fathers. “Disinterested love” is a JPII term for love without any favors reciprocated, i.e. no sexuality. This is what a father is supposed to do. Women that are missing this key piece often act out sexually and dress to get the attention of men. Women don’t even know that this is what they are doing but are just attempting to fill the emptiness and be loved.
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lil_flower_luv
Guest
I’m sorry if I ever implied I would judge you.
And I’m sorry it has gotten to the point where you would make such an assumption about me.I do not think you are a hoochie nor would I ever jump to such a conclusion.
God bless.
Mary_Gail_36
New member
Well, this isn’t really how Mary dressed on earth either. It’s an artistic rendition of Mary as Queen of Heaven. I’m sure Our Lady had simple clothing, not many garments, she was not wealthy. I’m sure her clothing was modest.
As for the other woman, would anyone care what I see?
I see a beautiful woman, who because is beautiful perhaps wanted to be a model. She didn’t end up as a top fashion model (I don’t recognize her), but models lower tiered items. She posed for a tank top ad, a jeans ad, maybe a hair product ad. The photographer shot lots of pictures, getting this one we see. The photographer coaxed her, “Look this way, look that.”
I see a woman, who perhaps sees her self worth only tied to her looks.
I’m not sure I see a woman that is thinking, “I will not serve…”
The only thing I know about her is she wore a small tank-top and jeans and had her picture taken.I see a child of God, who God loves as much as he loves me.
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Ailina
Guest
Obviously you have never heard of Afghanistan, where women are completely covered from head to foot, and so controlled by the men in their society who fear female sexuality. Honestly, I would rather live here than there.
But not in the world you imagine from your condescending statements above. I am a divorced Catholic. My husband, who came from an intact cradle-Catholic family, wanted an open marriage. I was not afraid to tell him the truth about what I thought of this stupid idea. He went online in search of hook ups. Nobody forced him to, especially not me. I did force him to leave the house when he couldn’t see the error of his ways. I couldn’t get more truthful than packing his bag and leaving it out on the front porch, come to think of it. I am not the only woman who has gone through this with husbands who don’t deserve the title. There are plenty of skanky men out there too, enjoying themselves like my ex still is.
Why are you blaming women for everything wrong in this part of the world, where so many women have been sexually exploited by men for eons?!
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C_S_P_B
Guest
One experience does not negate my argument. Men generalize, women personalize.
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Ailina
Guest
Oh really? Generalizing is better, because it’s better to gloss over the truth that actually point out that there are plenty of men who are not worthy of the title “Husband”? I think you might be stretching the facts there, my dear.
How about those countries where women are covered from head to foot, yet still face abuse and disrespect? I know for a fact that women here fare much better than there.
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Prayerfully
Guest
When I made the comment about “I will not serve”, it wasn’t meant towards this model, but rather those women who spout off things such as " I have such a hot body that I will wear what I want, when I want, even if it’s a pair of booty shorts and a string bikini top, I’ll even wear that to church, if I please, so just get over it"…that’s the “I will not serve” type of attitude I’m speaking of. I only used the model’s clothes as an example. Would I like to have a body like hers? Sure I would. Would I like her sitting next to me and my spouse at church wearing that shirt? Nope, think not!Well, this isn’t really how Mary dressed on earth either. It’s an artistic rendition of Mary as Queen of Heaven. I’m sure Our Lady had simple clothing, not many garments, she was not wealthy. I’m sure her clothing was modest.
As for the other woman, would anyone care what I see?
I see a beautiful woman, who because is beautiful perhaps wanted to be a model. She didn’t end up as a top fashion model (I don’t recognize her), but models lower tiered items. She posed for a tank top ad, a jeans ad, maybe a hair product ad. The photographer shot lots of pictures, getting this one we see. The photographer coaxed her, “Look this way, look that.”
I see a woman, who perhaps sees her self worth only tied to her looks.
I’m not sure I see a woman that is thinking, “I will not serve…”
I see a child of God, who God loves as much as he loves me.
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BlueSprite
Guest
:coffeeread: Oh boy…this thread…the drama…the drama…
Firstly, what or how, is modesty even a factor in being pregnant? If a woman is pregnant she’s pregnant! Modesty has nothing to do with it!!! If you’re pregnant you wear what you can…stay comfortable, be comfortable…I imagine it’s wicked tough being pregnant so just give all pregnant women props for walking around pregnant and showing up to Mass and doing all the things they do while pregnant credit, ok??? I mean seriously. Seriously. Are people actually suggesting that being pregnant is offensive??? I mean by drawing parallels about pregnancy and how a woman dresses? For real??? I can’t believe it…I refuse to believe it.
A second thing. I’m backing up Serap 100% in her opinions. Ok…true, these are just my opinions…but modesty has a lot more to do with behavior than just CLOTHES. And I believe, it’s dependent on situations as well. I mean, you’re at the beach…wear a bathing suit. You want to wear robes? Go for it…but good luck staying cool and not suffering from heat stroke. If a girl is wearing a g-string…sure…she’s looking for attention…but I wouldn’t call her any names or 'nuthin…I mean, maybe she’s young and clueless, but so what…it’s not my problem what someone else wears, and who am I to judge? I wear bikinis, so what. They’re not immodest in my book. They cover everything - same as a man’s bathing suit covers everything. Usually the guys are showing more skin than me even.
I have gone through the litany of “what’s appropriate” for women in this thread and it seems we’ve gone from pants to skirts, to dresses and to drapes…and then there was the whole “two fingers from the collar thing” (what???) for shirts to only ones where the sleeves reach the elbow. HOWEVER - DON’T wear a dress that’s FORM FITTING, and don’t wear a skirt that CLINGS too tightly, and don’t you dare wear pants that show your figure…and make sure those shirts don’t hug in the wrong places.
I mean come on. It seems most women, judging from this thread, are damned if they do - damned if they don’t. I guess your only OK if you’re anorexic and have 0 curves…THAN you can wear dresses or skirts. OR conversely, maybe if you’re morbidly obese and amorphous. But for the rest of us, forget it! Better not leave the house.
And I used to go to the beach all the time with my brothers and some girls wore bikinis and some wore one-pieces and some women even wore mumus - but most men can tell the women with hot bodies in a mumu or otherwise…you’re not fooling any guy by trying to cover it all up…if they’re looking for it (and that’s a BIG IF) they will spot it. That’s not to say you have to go out looking to encite that response…but I truly believe loads of girls and young women go to the beach and just want to have fun and catch some rays and aren’t trying to create a scandal. Gimme a break.
Oh - and regarding the swimsuits as the Olympics…the ONLY reason they’re sportin’ the “shark suits” these days is because those suits have been specifically crafted to lower friction while in the water…they actually funnel water faster than skin…that’s why so many swimmers are now breaking records that they previously were unable to do. It has nothing to do with modesty - it’s just about speed.
The same can be said for runners - they all wear what they wear to reduce wind-resistance in order to get the best times possible. Is it skimpy? Sure. Is it modest? Well, again, it’s situational. They’re there to perform…not to worry about attracting the opposite sex.
Firstly, what or how, is modesty even a factor in being pregnant? If a woman is pregnant she’s pregnant! Modesty has nothing to do with it!!! If you’re pregnant you wear what you can…stay comfortable, be comfortable…I imagine it’s wicked tough being pregnant so just give all pregnant women props for walking around pregnant and showing up to Mass and doing all the things they do while pregnant credit, ok??? I mean seriously. Seriously.
Are people actually suggesting that being pregnant is offensive??? I mean by drawing parallels about pregnancy and how a woman dresses? For real??? I can’t believe it…I refuse to believe it. A second thing. I’m backing up Serap 100% in her opinions. Ok…true, these are just my opinions…but modesty has a lot more to do with behavior than just CLOTHES. And I believe, it’s dependent on situations as well. I mean, you’re at the beach…wear a bathing suit. You want to wear robes? Go for it…but good luck staying cool and not suffering from heat stroke. If a girl is wearing a g-string…sure…she’s looking for attention…but I wouldn’t call her any names or 'nuthin…I mean, maybe she’s young and clueless, but so what…it’s not my problem what someone else wears, and who am I to judge? I wear bikinis, so what. They’re not immodest in my book. They cover everything - same as a man’s bathing suit covers everything. Usually the guys are showing more skin than me even.
I have gone through the litany of “what’s appropriate” for women in this thread and it seems we’ve gone from pants to skirts, to dresses and to drapes…and then there was the whole “two fingers from the collar thing” (what???) for shirts to only ones where the sleeves reach the elbow. HOWEVER - DON’T wear a dress that’s FORM FITTING, and don’t wear a skirt that CLINGS too tightly, and don’t you dare wear pants that show your figure…and make sure those shirts don’t hug in the wrong places.
I mean come on. It seems most women, judging from this thread, are damned if they do - damned if they don’t. I guess your only OK if you’re anorexic and have 0 curves…THAN you can wear dresses or skirts. OR conversely, maybe if you’re morbidly obese and amorphous. But for the rest of us, forget it! Better not leave the house. And I used to go to the beach all the time with my brothers and some girls wore bikinis and some wore one-pieces and some women even wore mumus - but most men can tell the women with hot bodies in a mumu or otherwise…you’re not fooling any guy by trying to cover it all up…if they’re looking for it (and that’s a BIG IF) they will spot it. That’s not to say you have to go out looking to encite that response…but I truly believe loads of girls and young women go to the beach and just want to have fun and catch some rays and aren’t trying to create a scandal. Gimme a break.
Oh - and regarding the swimsuits as the Olympics…the ONLY reason they’re sportin’ the “shark suits” these days is because those suits have been specifically crafted to lower friction while in the water…they actually funnel water faster than skin…that’s why so many swimmers are now breaking records that they previously were unable to do. It has nothing to do with modesty - it’s just about speed.
The same can be said for runners - they all wear what they wear to reduce wind-resistance in order to get the best times possible. Is it skimpy? Sure. Is it modest? Well, again, it’s situational. They’re there to perform…not to worry about attracting the opposite sex.
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C_S_P_B
Guest
There are plenty of women that instigate a divorce with no valid reason. The elimination of No-Fault divorce does not eliminate divorce or the option for anyone to separate.
I guess this is the reason that women do not challenge other women in REAL LIFE. Feelings are involved you never know when any particular woman will be hurt and use her personal experience to justify broad applications for society. No one, man or woman wants to wade into this emotional morass. But you see, I generalize, so I don’t care if I step on some toes. I care about what is best for society and fathers need to be in the home. Your personal situation does not negate that fact.
To extrapolate your justification, 50% of men are unfaithful and hooking up with whatever loose women they can find. This conclusion would defy reason.
My guess is that after your emotional outburst, no other women will be willing to address my post. It is often viewed as condescending if a particular woman’s feelings are hurt. It is quite easy to think men are the problem, but woe to any that stray from this in unapproved ways.
The condition of Islamic women neither proves or disproves anything.
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mommamaree
Guest
BlueSprite - These two comments were referring to posts that I made, so I will respond to these two specifically.
The topic of modesty during pregnancy was a topic that I brought up, because as a woman who tends to be rather more modest than my peers (natural inclination having nothing to do with moral opinion), I have found it extremely difficult to maintain my modesty while still looking feminine and pretty. The whole section about modesty during pregnancy was meant as self-deprecating humor. No one was suggesting pregnancy was offensive. I don’t know where you picked up that idea. And FWIW, that picture of the pregnant mama was me, as of last night. No one was being held up for mockery except my own self.Firstly, what or how, is modesty even a factor in being pregnant? If a woman is pregnant she’s pregnant! Modesty has nothing to do with it!!! If you’re pregnant you wear what you can…stay comfortable, be comfortable…I imagine it’s wicked tough being pregnant so just give all pregnant women props for walking around pregnant and showing up to Mass and doing all the things they do while pregnant credit, ok??? I mean seriously. Seriously.
Didn’t you notice how I said the swimmers are now lightning fast? I don’t think any person here is unaware of the special attributes of the speed suits. Again, the whole Speedo vs. speed suit topic was an attempt at humor. A lot of this thread had gotten a little too heavy, so I was trying to be rather ridiculous with my commenting, and thankfully some of the people picked up on that and were going along with it for fun.
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BlueSprite
Guest
Hi mommamaree,
My apologies…I thought people were railing on you for being pregnant or making you feel uncomfortable about it - so I got a little defensive. And yes I did realize that was you in the pic and I thought you looked very cute! Good luck to you and your family - how exciting! 
Oh, and I did NOT get the joke about the shark suits…that went totally over my head. I should have read the thread better.
Maybe I’m getting too worked up over this whole thing. Time to chill-out. :coolinoff:
It’s just so hard to be a woman in 2010!!! I mean, you try to do what’s right, you try to do good…and sometimes it feels like things are coming at you from all angles. At least that’s how I feel. Regarding clothes, I try to be “classy.” But I like fashion, so I’m not going to wear robes. I like heels too. I used to work for a law firm and the women there looked fabulous. And so did the men! Suits and ties…and the women wore sharp suits with heels and blouses. Some wore pants, and beautiful scarves. I love that style…kinda like the 40’s or so. But I digress…this isn’t a fashion thread.
My apologies…I thought people were railing on you for being pregnant or making you feel uncomfortable about it - so I got a little defensive.
And yes I did realize that was you in the pic and I thought you looked very cute! Good luck to you and your family - how exciting! Oh, and I did NOT get the joke about the shark suits…that went totally over my head. I should have read the thread better.
Maybe I’m getting too worked up over this whole thing. Time to chill-out. :coolinoff:
It’s just so hard to be a woman in 2010!!! I mean, you try to do what’s right, you try to do good…and sometimes it feels like things are coming at you from all angles. At least that’s how I feel. Regarding clothes, I try to be “classy.” But I like fashion, so I’m not going to wear robes. I like heels too. I used to work for a law firm and the women there looked fabulous. And so did the men! Suits and ties…and the women wore sharp suits with heels and blouses. Some wore pants, and beautiful scarves. I love that style…kinda like the 40’s or so. But I digress…this isn’t a fashion thread.
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