Impeachment of Donald J. Trump

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Once again, the premise is assumed, as is usual in the anti-Trump articles nowadays. They assume the Dems are entitled to “the materials”, which might not be the case at all. In any event, like the witnesses the Dems want, they didn’t try to get them and test them in court.
 
Once again, the premise is assumed, as is usual in the anti-Trump articles nowadays. They assume the Dems are entitled to “the materials”, which might not be the case at all. In any event, like the witnesses the Dems want, they didn’t try to get them and test them in court.
They absolutely are entitled to the documents. Look at US V Nixon. Also, Trump has stated that he has ordered the Executive Branch to not comply with any subpoenas. However, he didn’t claim Executive Privilege. Just fighting.


 
Said best “ Quite frankly, having Adam Schiff lecture the Senate about fairness and due process is like listening to an arsonist talk about fire prevention.”
 
If you’re a constitutional lawyer, perhaps you can validly opine, provided you know what is in the documents. Just because there have been some decisions against the executive doesn’t mean anything. Some decisions have upheld the president’s right to refuse.
 
RR, did you play the Schiff video? To claim priveledge you have to claim priveledge.
 
They didn’t subpoena during the formal proceedings because Trump made clear they would go to Article III, and that would hold up the Dems impeachment until after the 2020 election. Now the Dems are trying to change the Senate into the fact finding chamber. They are trying to get done quickly without challenge what they didn’t and couldn’t get done in the House. It won’t work.
 
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None of the prior witnesses had anything to offer other than their own speculations. What makes you think Giuliani, Pompeo or Mulvaney would be any different? Sonderland is the only Democrat witness who actually had any evidence to offer, and his was that Trump said he didn’t want any quid pro quo.
RR, did you play the Schiff video? To claim priveledge you have to claim priveledge.
You don’t claim privilege in a vacuum. If you believe communications are privileged, you refuse to divulge their content. The party wanting the information then has to take you to court to force you or your witness to answer (or produce documents). In that proceeding, you formally assert privilege, and the judge decides whether you are entitled to it or not. Trump was never taken to court by the Democrats.
Now the Dems are trying to change the Senate into the fact finding chamber.
Correct. The Dems impeached Trump in the house. Now they want the Senate to impeach him again, when that’s not the Senate’s function and the Senate has no right to do it.
 
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None of the prior witnesses had anything to offer other than their own speculations. What makes you think Giuliani, Pompeo or Mulvaney would be any different? Sonderland is the only Democrat witness who actually had any evidence to offer, and his was that Trump said he didn’t want any quid pro quo.
Because they were closer to Trump than the other witnesses. Trump told Zelensky to work with Guiliani. So Guiliani would know what Trump said. Mulvaney admitted the quid pro quo already so we know he knows what it is. Trump has prevented evidence to be presented that would exonerate him, so I think we can safely assume what they would have to say is bad for Trump.
 
Too late! Already guilty of obstruction for not turning over the evidence , unless can prove themselves innocent
 
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How do you know these are incriminating? Have you seen them?
Haha. Okay, so I think that are incriminating, and that’s why they are being withheld. Are you saying they are exculpatory and are being withheld?
If you know they have incriminating testimony, why didn’t you tell Schiff or Nadler so they could subpoena them in the impeachment hearing, when they exercised total control over the process?
They did subpoena them. At least Mulvaney. He refused to testify at the direction of the President.
Maybe Schiff should call @PaulinVA to testify. He seems to have all the dirt…
Yeah, that’s funny. I “have all the dirt” because I have been paying attention. But, instead of me, how about Mulvaney?
 
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It’s not up to Trump to prove his innocence, it’s up to Schiff, et. al. to prove his guilt. If they didn’t have sufficient evidence they should have held the case and taken the fight for the privileged documents to court.
Not releasing the documents and allowing the testimony is now enshrined in Article 2. No need to go to court, since the ability of the House to have access to the docs and personnel is established law.
If Schiff, et. al. was sure that Mulvaney had incriminating testimony, he should have fought the matter in court rather than punting the ball to the Senate where he has no say in the matter.
Read above. Article 2.
 
When did using legal means to fight a subpoena become “mobstruction”?
That’s a typo. It’s obstruction. They are not using any means to fight the subpoenas. They are just following Trump’s guidance to not cooperate at all.

That. is. obstruction.
 
The remedy for Schiff, et. al., is to go to court to attempt to force the President to comply with the subpoenas, not to try and make the Senate, where he has no authority, to do what he didn’t want to bother doing. In the House, Schiff and the Democrats control the process, in the Senate they don’t.
And that would take forever. Well into the year. Why wait?

My hope is that the evidence is compelling on both counts. However, letting Mulvaney, et al testify would actually do a lot to nullify Article 2. It should be done, unless Mulvaney’s testimony would prove Article 1.
 
Did you ask the same question when the House rejected the Republicans’ calls to call their own witnesses to present a “fair” case? Or is your outrage only one-sided?
It is the prerogative of the court to determine what witnesses are relevant. AFAIK, the only additional “witnesses” House Republicans wanted to testify were the whistleblower and Adam Schiff. Neither one of these people were directly involved in any way with the abuse of power on the part of the president. Having them testify was clearly a red herring, going after the “right” of investigation, which is already established by the constitution. For example, if a defense attorney wanted to call the prosecutor as a “witness”, but could not show the judge how the prosecutor himself was involved in the crime being investigated, any reasonable judge would not deem such testimony as evidence.

And by the way, a poll indicated that over 70% of Americans agree that witnesses and other evidence should be considered. The other 30% must be completely unfamiliar with the nature of a trial, or are convinced that this president, for various reasons, can do no wrong.

If the senate refuses to hear evidence and witnesses that truly provide collaboration or lack of collaboration of the charges, they are guilty of tyranny.
The Dems impeached Trump in the house. Now they want the Senate to impeach him again, when that’s not the Senate’s function and the Senate has no right to do it.
Ridgerunner, you might want to check the web for articles that explain the difference between the role of the House and the role of the Senate. The house does not remove the president from office once he is impeached. The Senate has to do that.
 
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Because Congress doesn’t get to order the President to comply with it’s requests. Separation of powers. co-equal branches of government, and all that jazz…
If the President would simply comply with duly-authorized subpoenas, we wouldn’t have this problem. He decided to not cooperate at all.

The Congress does need to have the Judicial branch enforce its subpoenas against the Executive branch. I agree. But, what’s the President hiding?
 
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