Impeachment of Donald J. Trump

[gracepoole]

I take no joy in the fact that Trump is impeached. However, Trump’s actions necessitated this outcome. No one has disputed the facts as they were presented during the House hearings. Instead of addressing the facts of the case, the Republicans have attacked the process, and have offered variations of the “it might have been wrong but it wasn’t impeachable” defense. Sunlight is always the best disinfectant. If Trump is innocent, then the White House should have no problem in providing all requested documents and in letting Mulvaney, Bolton, and others testify under oath in a Senate trial.

THIS.

For the record, I feel sick that we’ve arrived at this point as a nation. But I have serious concerns about any candidate or party (and especially a sitting president) involving a foreign power in our elections.

 

[Hume]

Agreed. For me it’s a simple question on the Rule of Law.

Is it ok for presidents to coerce foreign powers for personal political gain? And if not, are we going to punish it?

-Or are we gonna let it slide due to some misplaced political tribalism?

 

[Victoria33]

Michael Steele, a Brit, helped design that Russian hoax dossier. That benefited the Clinton side.

Ukraine Court just ruled Ukraine interfered in the US election and against Trump.

Ukraine Court Rules Manafort Disclosure Caused ‘Meddling’ in U.S. Election - The New York Times

 

[Victoria33]

Agreed. For me it’s a simple question on the Rule of Law.

Is it ok for presidents to coerce foreign powers for personal political gain? And if not, are we going to punish it?

-Or are we gonna let it slide due to some misplaced political tribalism?

Or are we not going to buy this narrative and go after corruption, no matter who does it?

 

[Aquinas11]

unethical

Yes an impeachment based on zero evidence is highly unethical

 

[Hume]

I’m sorry you feel that way. For most folks here and abroad, this is a pretty clear, text-book case of what violation of the Foreign Emoluments clause looks like - no narrative-craft needed.

 

[Aquinas11]

No one has disputed the facts as they were presented during the House hearings.

Obviously false

Instead of addressing the facts of the case,

Hard to assert “facts of case” after stating things not true about the case.

If Trump is innocent, then the White House should have no problem

I hope everyone is noticing that Democrats are revoking 5th amendment presumption of innocence…everyone take note next time Democrat asserts lack of proof, etc.

 

[Victoria33]

Yes an impeachment based on zero evidence is highly unethical

Exactly. And now trying to hold it up from going to the Senate in a timely manner. This behavior is so unbecoming, total partisan split on the issue. We are suppose to buy this? Yes, partisans will. Hopefully, nobody else will.

 

[Aquinas11]

For me it’s a simple question on the Rule of Law.

Rule of Law? They never cited one law he violated since he didn’t violate any law.

 

[Aquinas11]

For most folks here and abroad, this is a pretty clear, text-book case of what violation of the Foreign Emoluments clause looks like

Yeah but the “this” is all hearsay garbage inadmissible evidence.

Only witness (Sondland) who claimed to have first hand knowledge of Trump withholding aid for an investigation ended up admitting he made it up since it “was based on my presumptions”

 

[Hume]

No laws violated?

I respectfully refer you to Article I of the Articles of Impeachment linked at the top.

 

[Aquinas11]

But I have serious concerns about any candidate or party (and especially a sitting president) involving a foreign power in our elections.

Yes hence why Hillary and Obama need to be investigated for paying Russia for dirt to illegally spy on Trump and overturn election.

 

[Aquinas11]

I respectfully refer you to

Oh is that how it works now? You just cite to laws and the person is guilty?

Everyone take note

 

[dvdjs]

McConnell has promised to do his job, which is acting as a juror for the impeachment case.

His job is to at as an impartial juror.
He has already spoke out against that.

For a 1000 years the notion of a fair trial was to protect the accused, not the prosecutor. In the case of this impeachment, the prosecutors (Schiff and Nadler) completely controlled the process

Leaving aside the 1000 years bit, Schiff and Nadler are investigators in the House, not prosecutors.

which is not happening.

Are you suggesting that there is are time limits for this?
Can you point to that in the rules?
How long did this take with Clinton?
What agreements did Lott and Daschle and the Senate reach before the manager brought the case forward?

See doesn’t have control now. The Senate can choose to take up impeachment whether Pelosi transmits the actual articles or not.

Where does this misinformation come from?

So Pelosi is not going to “do her job” ie get the managers appointed because she thinks someone else wont do their job?

Shrewd move on her part. Hold the articles until the Senate establishes procedures consistent with the rules and the law.

He works for the president. So does the state department.

Giuliiani works for Donald Trump.
The State Department works for the people of the United States.

Michael Steele

Michael Steele is not a foreign power.

go after corruption,

We have been working on anti-corruption in the Ukraine for some time. Trump’s “drug deal” looking for an announcement against Biden, is not part of that effort.

 

[Aquinas11]

Can you point to that in the rules?

Like you can point to where in transcript Trump tied aid to an investigation? go ahead

 

[Hume]

Ok, you said that there were no laws referenced and I pointed you to them.

At this point, I can pretty plainly see that you might be rather partial on the matter, which is unfortunate.

Again, for the rest of us, this is exactly what a modern day violation of the Emolments clause would look like. It’s practically text-book perfect.

 

[gracepoole]

gracepoole:

unethical

Yes an impeachment based on zero evidence is highly unethical

Take ownership of your actions. You were deeply unethical when you misquoted me the first time. Stop continuing to do so.

 

[Aquinas11]

practically text-book perfect.

2 requirements going forward for impeaching President

(1) cite to a law
(2) certify President engaged in “text book perfect” violation of said law

wow it will be super easy impeaching the next Democrat President

 

[gracepoole]

gracepoole:

But I have serious concerns about any candidate or party (and especially a sitting president) involving a foreign power in our elections.

Yes hence why Hillary and Obama need to be investigated for paying Russia for dirt to illegally spy on Trump and overturn election.

Great. How does that disprove Trump’s guilt?

 

[dvdjs]

Like you can point to where in transcript Trump tied aid to an investigation?

There is plenty in the testimony that reveals that the people who worked for him understood that - strictly speaking the announcement of an investigation - to be the case. That’s enough.

2 requirements going forward for impeaching President

Straw man defense.