Impeachment of Donald J. Trump

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HarryStotle said:
Personal interests involving legal defence to counter, for example the Mueller investigation and allegations stemming from that, does not equate to extortion, except perhaps in your dreams. Even a president is entitled to legal defence as a US citizen.
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Of course he does. But when Trump told the Ukrainian president to work with his personal attorney, one can assume that what that attorney was seeking was for Trump’s personal use, not for benefit of the United States. Hence, Trump was seeking personal favors from the Ukrainian president and withholding funding earmarked for Ukraine by Congress was to extort Ukraine to provide personal ‘favors’.
 
drcube said:
But when Trump told the Ukrainian president to work with his personal attorney, one can assume that what that attorney was seeking was for Trump’s personal use, not for benefit of the United States.
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Told? That’s not what the transcript says. Trump offered the services of Guiliani and Barr after Zelensky asked him for assistance. Not the other way around

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JButky said:
Told? That’s not what the transcript says. Trump offered the services of Guiliani and Barr after Zelensk asked him for assistance. Not the other way around
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Guiliani’s letter was written in May. That transcript is from July.

Also, why didn’t you quote the part of the transcript just before this where Zelenskyy says:
I will personally tell you that one of my assistants spoke with Mr. Giuliani just recently and we are hoping very much that Mr. Giuliani will be able to travel to Ukraine and we will meet once he comes to Ukraine. I just wanted to assure you once again that you have nobody but friends around us.
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To which Trump responds:
Good because I heard you had a prosecutor who was very good and he was shut down and that’s really unfair. A lot of people are talking about that, the way they shut your very good prosecutor down and you had some very bad people involved. Mr. Giuliani is a highly respected man. He was the mayor of New York City, a great mayor, and I would like him to call you. I will ask him to call you along with the Attorney General. Rudy very much knows what’s happening and he is a very capable guy.
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At this point, your quoted section occurs. So it is not at all the case that Trump only brought up Giuliani after being asked for help.
 
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There is nothing in that letter that speaks to Trump doing anything wrong as President of the US. In fact, Giuliani makes it very clear he is acting as Donald Trump’s personal attorney.

The idea that anyone thinks this new “evidence” solidifies the impeachment case is frankly, speculating. Reading nefarious deeds into this correspondence is just a wish for the left. Actually it more of a Schiff tactic of filling in the blanks to make it up!
 
Horton said:
There is nothing in that letter that speaks to Trump doing anything wrong as President of the US. In fact, Giuliani makes it very clear he is acting as Donald Trump’s personal attorney.
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It means that what Trump was trying to get through Giuliani was in his own private interests, and that it was therefore improper for Trump to manipulate US foreign policy to achieve those interests, i.e. an abuse of power.
 
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drcube said:
But when Trump told the Ukrainian president to work with his personal attorney, one can assume that what that attorney was seeking was for Trump’s personal use, not for benefit of the United States.
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Kind of like when Stzok told Page “we’ll stop it” we can assume the “we” was Stzok/FBI not American people
 
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JapaneseKappa said:
It means that what Trump was trying to get through Giuliani was in his own private interests, and that it was therefore improper for Trump to manipulate US foreign policy to achieve those interests, i.e. an abuse of power.
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Obama to Mededev : “Tell Vladimir I will have more flexibility after this election since this is my last election” (ding ding personal interest used to manipulate US foreign policy)
 
JapaneseKappa said:
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Aquinas11:
Like demanding a prosecutor be fired investigating your son
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Who was investigating Hunter Biden?
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Should Hunter Biden have been investigated, assuming – hypothetically, of course – that we are living in a morally upright world, I mean?

Just out of interest, do you agree with Sen. Blackburn that the Senators running for president against Donald Trump ought to recuse themselves from the impeachment trial, given conflict of interest?

I mean if Trump is necessarily wrong about investigating Biden’s son BECAUSE he is a political opponent, isn’t there a credible case to be made that Dem Senators are necessarily conflicted as jurors because Trump is their political opponent? Hey, the case might even be made that every Dem Senator is necessarily conflicted because Trump is a Republican.

Funny how political affiliation is only damning when the politician is NOT a Dem. 🤔
 
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HarryStotle said:
I mean if Trump is necessarily wrong about investigating Biden’s son BECAUSE he is a political opponent
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This is like saying “Well if Nixon was wrong about investigating meetings in the Watergate hotel BECAUSE they are his political opponents.”
Trump can’t derail US foreign policy to investigate anyone he feels like, just like Nixon couldn’t bug the hotel rooms of anyone he felt like.
The “political opponent” bit is merely an explanation of motive, not the reason what Trump did was improper.
 
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JapaneseKappa said:
The “political opponent” bit is merely an explanation of motive, not the reason what Trump did was improper.
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So it’s “improper” to “look into” possible corruption?

By the way, the Russia collusion narrative is now being investigated by Barr and Durham because there is actual evidence that the FBI, CIA, DOJ, and the NSA, along with individuals from Great Britain and Australia, attempted to entrap people connected to the Trump campaign. That would be political abuse of judicial power.
 
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