In first video message, Pope Francis stresses unity: 'We are all children of God' [CNA]

[JosieN]

The greatest commandment on it’s own almost has no meaning, unless it is linked with the second greatest commandment.

We must certainly seek God, but what about the Good Samaritan, there was no mention that he was seeking God. The expert in the law asks Jesus, what must I do to find salvation? He could not ask a greater question.

Jesus gave us the parable of the Good Samaritan in reply, as a means to explain the greatest commandments, Now it does not say that the Samaritan ever became a Jew or a Christian. Jesus even tells the expert in the law, that he should do the same as a non -believing Samaritan. Why would Jesus give us that parable about the greatest commandments and salvation, if it was not possible for the Good Samaritan to have salvation?

Here is the parable from the Bible

10:25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

10:26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?

10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.

10:28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

10:29 But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?

10:30 And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.

10:31 And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.

10:32 And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.

10:33 But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,

10:34 And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.

10:35 And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.

10:36 Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?

10:37 And he said, He that showed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

Jesus tells the lawyer in order to be saved you must love God and your neighbor then the lawyer asks who is my neighbor? Jesus explains to him that his neighbour is the Samaritan who helped the injured man, and that the Samaritan because he felt mercy was a neighbor to the injured man. Jesus told the lawyer to do the same as the Samaritan. Where does it say it was possible for the Samaritan to be saved? I only see the part where He says it is possible for the lawyer to be saved.

The message in my opinion is that your neighbors are more than those you would normally associate with, your neighbor can be anyone, even a Samaritan and you must love them also, and you must be good to your neighbor, just like the Samaritan was good to the injured man. Then if you love God and your neighbor in the way this parable explains it, you will have eternal life.

 

[Stephen_III]

Seems pretty clear to me that God is all merciful and all just. However he applies the two for any one person is His call. Not mine, or yours, or any religious leader. Religious leaders at their most gifted and their best are but guides to a more developed conscience. As are other tools …like the Bible (to a lesser and greater extent), or meditation etc.

It must be mentioned though that ANY person deemed acceptable to His kingdom, regardless how he got there, will have been made acceptable through the merit of Jesus Christ as dispensed through His body the Church… Why must we insist on knowing how God applies His mercy, His Justice and merit?

If I’m fortunate to one day be in heaven and am made aware of a notorious sinner also being there; (aside from applying my own judgement again… which is something I can’t do in heaven…) I think I would only marvel at how Jesus Christ accomplished even this …for two sinners!

 

[Eric_Hyom]

Jesus tells the lawyer in order to be saved you must love God and your neighbor then the lawyer asks who is my neighbor? Jesus explains to him that his neighbour is the Samaritan who helped the injured man, and that the Samaritan because he felt mercy was a neighbor to the injured man. Jesus told the lawyer to do the same as the Samaritan. Where does it say it was possible for the Samaritan to be saved? I only see the part where He says it is possible for the lawyer to be saved.
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If the greatest commandments said, become a lawyer, a Jew and spread the Gospels, then I could see your point. But there are no such terms and conditions written into the greatest commandments. It seems the lawyer was not as loving as the Samaritan, so the lawyer had to change. It does not say that the Samaritan should change in order to have eternal salvation.

The message in my opinion is that your neighbors are more than those you would normally associate with, your neighbor can be anyone, even a Samaritan and you must love them also, and you must be good to your neighbor, just like the Samaritan was good to the injured man. Then if you love God and your neighbor in the way this parable explains it, you will have eternal life

So we can both see how the non believing Samaritan was the good guy, and it would make sense that the good guys also get to heaven. In fact, the Samaritan was obeying the commandment and it was probably not even meant for him, which makes his case all the greater.

 

[JosieN]

If the greatest commandments said, become a lawyer, a Jew and spread the Gospels, then I could see your point. But there are no such terms and conditions written into the greatest commandments. It seems the lawyer was not as loving as the Samaritan, so the lawyer had to change. It does not say that the Samaritan should change in order to have eternal salvation.

So we can both see how the non believing Samaritan was the good guy, and it would make sense that the good guys also get to heaven. In fact, the Samaritan was obeying the commandment and it was probably not even meant for him, which makes his case all the greater.

But in order for the Samaritan to have eternal life he must obey both commandments. It does not say the Samaritan loved God, only that he loved his neighbor in the way the lawyer should love his neighbor. It was a lesson on who you neighbor is and how to love your neighbor. He told him to love God above all things and love your neighbor as well, and then explains who his neighbor is… That is my opinion. If you see it your way I understand.

 

[Eric_Hyom]

But in order for the Samaritan to have eternal life he must obey both commandments. It does not say the Samaritan loved God, only that he loved his neighbor in the way the lawyer should love his neighbor. It was a lesson on who you neighbor is and how to love your neighbor. He told him to love God above all things and love your neighbor as well, and then explains who his neighbor is… That is my opinion. If you see it your way I understand.

The Parable of the Good Samaritan was clearly given to the Jews. But Jesus was preparing the way for the gentiles to have the same offer of salvation, including Samaritans.

I think I can see a way to explain my position, by retelling the Good Samaritan story, but changing the names of the two main charterers.

The wounded Samaritan was left on the roadside, the priest and Levite walked by, but the Good Jewish merchant stopped to help the wounded Samaritan.

This explains that neighbours are not just your own kind, and it was a Jewish merchant living under the law that shows mercy to the foreigner. The priest and the Levite are still the bad guys.

 

[JosieN]

The Parable of the Good Samaritan was clearly given to the Jews. But Jesus was preparing the way for the gentiles to have the same offer of salvation, including Samaritans.

I think I can see a way to explain my position, by retelling the Good Samaritan story, but changing the names of the two main charterers.

The wounded Samaritan was left on the roadside, the priest and Levite walked by, but the Good Jewish merchant stopped to help the wounded Samaritan.

This explains that neighbours are not just your own kind, and it was a Jewish merchant living under the law that shows mercy to the foreigner. The priest and the Levite are still the bad guys.

I see your point that the priest and the Levite are bad guys, but for one to have eternal life it is written in the law “You shall love the lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind, and your neighbour as yourself.” I take it to mean that you need to do all the parts of the commandment to have eternal life, not just the last part of the commandment.

 

[Eric_Hyom]

I see your point that the priest and the Levite are bad guys, but for one to have eternal life it is written in the law “You shall love the lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind, and your neighbour as yourself.” I take it to mean that you need to do all the parts of the commandment to have eternal life, not just the last part of the commandment.

But how can we love an invisible God, whom we have never met? The answer appears to be, in the same way we love all our neighbours who we come into contact with, and not just the ones we know and those who love us. The Good Samaritan pushes the boundaries for most of us, that we should even be kind to those we think of as enemies.

Mathews Gospel pushes the boundaries further by saying we show our love for God, by the same way we show our love for the poor and oppressed.

Mathew 25
The sheep and the goats

31 ‘When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 ‘Then the King will say to those on his right, “Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was ill and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.”

37 ‘Then the righteous will answer him, “Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you ill or in prison and go to visit you?”

40 ‘The King will reply, “Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.”

I hope and pray for salvation for all people, despite our differences.

 

[JosieN]

Mathews Gospel pushes the boundaries further by saying we show our love for God, by the same way we show our love for the poor and oppressed.

I hope and pray for salvation for all people, despite our differences.

We must certainly pray for the salvation of all people but also we must evangelize all men so they come to know our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ who awaits for us in Heaven.

This what we believe as Catholics.

848 “Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men.”

And this is what the Bible says

For many , as I have often told you and now tell you even in tears, conduct themselves as enemies of the cross of Christ. Their end is destruction. Their God is their stomach; their glory is in their “shame.” Their minds are occupied with earthly things. But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we also await a savior, the Lord Jesus Christ.

Philippians 3:18-20

 

[Eric_Hyom]

We must certainly pray for the salvation of all people but also we must evangelize all men so they come to know our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ who awaits for us in Heaven.

This what we believe as Catholics.

Amen, but we have split out Lord Jesus Christ into a thousand denominations. If we could come to terms with living in harmony with all our Christian brothers and sisters, we might then come to understand how we might accept our non-Christian brothers and sisters too.

 

[Lynxdk]

Are we reading the Bible looking for excuses? Or for answers?

The point isn’t to follow points, like a check list, of “things you must do” to enter the Kingdom.

The Point is to Practice these things, each and every day, with every person that we meet, even in our own selves. While reading scripture, for example, self-examination and honesty with ourselves, following our Own hard feelings, and knowing God is right there with us, not to Judge the sins we uncover in the proccess, but to help us Learn how we are to be, as Christ taught.

Forget about the punishment part. We’re not supposed to be doing things for rewards, or to avoid punishments. It’s God’s Will for us. It’s how God Made us to be.

1 John 4:18
There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

Live the life Christ would live, if He were You. Not some pithy “wwjd” memetic nonsense, but treat Each person as if they were Christ Himself.

Parts of Matthew 25:31-46

42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

You can read it the other way to. If you Hurt someone, whatever you did To them, you Also did to Christ.

 

[Eric_Hyom]

treat Each person as if they were Christ Himself.

You can read it the other way to. If you Hurt someone, whatever you did To them, you Also did to Christ.

Amen

 

[JosieN]

Are we reading the Bible looking for excuses? Or for answers?

The point isn’t to follow points, like a check list, of “things you must do” to enter the Kingdom.

The Point is to Practice these things, each and every day, with every person that we meet, even in our own selves. While reading scripture, for example, self-examination and honesty with ourselves, following our Own hard feelings, and knowing God is right there with us, not to Judge the sins we uncover in the proccess, but to help us Learn how we are to be, as Christ taught.

Forget about the punishment part. We’re not supposed to be doing things for rewards, or to avoid punishments. It’s God’s Will for us. It’s how God Made us to be.

Live the life Christ would live, if He were You. Not some pithy “wwjd” memetic nonsense, but treat Each person as if they were Christ Himself.

Parts of Matthew 25:31-46

You can read it the other way to. If you Hurt someone, whatever you did To them, you Also did to Christ.

We must love our neighbor and not hurt them but we must also love God and obey His commandments. All things work for good for those who love God.

Romans 8 27-28

And the one who searches hearts knows what is the intention of the Spirit, because it intercedes for the holy ones according to God’s will. We know that all things work for good for those who love God, who are called according to his purpose.

 

[Lynxdk]

We must love our neighbor and not hurt them but we must also love God and obey His commandments. All things work for good for those who love God.

Romans 8 27-28

And the one who searches hearts knows what is the intention of the Spirit, because it intercedes for the holy ones according to God’s will. We know that all things work for good for those who love God, who are called according to his purpose.

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The commandments being the 2, and the 10.

The rest should just be corollary, except where Christ made exceptions the Jewish folks were expected to “obey”, due to the Pharisees and such just making up stuff to bend the will of the people to themselves.

 

[JosieN]

Amen, but we have split out Lord Jesus Christ into a thousand denominations. If we could come to terms with living in harmony with all our Christian brothers and sisters, we might then come to understand how we might accept our non-Christian brothers and sisters too.

I think the best way to live in harmony is to teach them about Jesus Christ and baptize them, then they will become our brothers and sisters as we are the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

The Book of Galatians

3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

3:29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

[Lynxdk]

I think the best way to live in harmony is to teach them about Jesus Christ and baptize them, then they will become our brothers and sisters as we are the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

The Book of Galatians

3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

3:29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

You cannot “teach” people who aren’t ready, or don’t want to, learn. People will learn on their own. You can’t just go around Baptizing people, either. God doesn’t force His Will on people. They choose, or not, as They will.

We can Show them how to live Christ-like lives, by the way We live, on the outside, and hope God shows them from the inside.

Before the Roman Empire annexed the Christianity for their own purposes, they allowed Many religions to exist more or less peacefully, as did Alexander the Great whom they began modeling themselves after.

Before there was a Bible, God Exists. Religion and Morality comes from God, small and misguided as some may have been, some more than others, letting them live in peace also means they can let Us live in peace, otherwise what you’re suggesting would simply lead to more war, and No peace.

I’m not trying to knock or mock you for the thought, but it’s not realistic. Imagine trying to convert the Baptists who are further afield than many Pagans and Atheists I know.

We’re all Children of God. There are no others on Earth that haven’t come from God’s design, baptismal records or no.

 

[JosieN]

You cannot “teach” people who aren’t ready, or don’t want to, learn. People will learn on their own. You can’t just go around Baptizing people, either. God doesn’t force His Will on people. They choose, or not, as They will.

We can Show them how to live Christ-like lives, by the way We live, on the outside, and hope God shows them from the inside.

Before the Roman Empire annexed the Christianity for their own purposes, they allowed Many religions to exist more or less peacefully, as did Alexander the Great whom they began modeling themselves after.

Before there was a Bible, God Exists. Religion and Morality comes from God, small and misguided as some may have been, some more than others, letting them live in peace also means they can let Us live in peace, otherwise what you’re suggesting would simply lead to more war, and No peace.

I’m not trying to knock or mock you for the thought, but it’s not realistic. Imagine trying to convert the Baptists who are further afield than many Pagans and Atheists I know.

We’re all Children of God. There are no others on Earth that haven’t come from God’s design, baptismal records or no.

I am grateful the apostles of Christ did not think like you do. Where would Christianity be today if they had not gone out into the world and spread the gospel and baptized the non-Christians?

 

[Lynxdk]

I am grateful the apostles of Christ did not think like you do. Where would Christianity be today if they had not gone out into the world and spread the gospel and baptized the non-Christians?

The Apostles didn’t spread Christianity. The Roman Empire tortured, imprisoned and killed people, destroying lives indiscriminately, enslaving people, and Forcing the religion onto people who might otherwise have come to it, of their own volition, had it been practiced in the ways Christ spoke of, rather than with violence and destruction that still haunts and drives people away from the Church and Faith in Christ.

One of the many failings people run into, trying to “convert” or in attempting to “bring Christ” to non-christians, especially, is the inability to see the truth as facts, and deny them, in favor of “defending the faith” at an emotional level, rather than enable oneself to argue from a perspective of reason, in acknowledgement of past failures.

One can’t argue with Atheism, when one struggles with understanding their perspective of history available for All to read. If we don’t learn from History, we’re doomed to repeat it, and we All suffer for it.

 

[JosieN]

The Apostles didn’t spread Christianity. The Roman Empire tortured, imprisoned and killed people, destroying lives indiscriminately, enslaving people, and Forcing the religion onto people who might otherwise have come to it, of their own volition, had it been practiced in the ways Christ spoke of, rather than with violence and destruction that still haunts and drives people away from the Church and Faith in Christ.

One of the many failings people run into, trying to “convert” or in attempting to “bring Christ” to non-christians, especially, is the inability to see the truth as facts, and deny them, in favor of “defending the faith” at an emotional level, rather than enable oneself to argue from a perspective of reason, in acknowledgement of past failures.

One can’t argue with Atheism, when one struggles with understanding their perspective of history available for All to read. If we don’t learn from History, we’re doomed to repeat it, and we All suffer for it.

I copied and pasted this from Wikipedia.

Early Christians suffered sporadic persecution as the result of local pagan populations putting pressure on the imperial authorities to take action against the Christians in their midst, who were thought to bring misfortune by their refusal to honour the gods.[7][8] Persecution was on the rise in Asia Minor towards the end of the 1st century,[9] and in 111 AD the emperor Trajan issued regulations about the conduct of trials of Christians under the Roman governor of the area.[10] The first action taken against Christians by the order of an emperor occurred half a century earlier under Nero after the Great Fire of Rome in 64 AD.[8]

During the Ante-Nicene period following the Apostolic Age, a great diversity of views emerged simultaneously with strong unifying characteristics lacking in the apostolic period. Part of the unifying trend was an increasingly harsh rejection of Judaism and Jewish practices. Early Christianity gradually grew apart from Judaism during the first two centuries and established itself as a predominantly gentile religion in the Roman Empire.

According to Will Durant, the Christian Church prevailed over paganism because it offered a much more attractive doctrine and because the church leaders addressed human needs better than their rivals.[11]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Christianity

I agree we should learn from history and never repeat it, but there will always be those who are willing to fight, defend and die for their beliefs.

 

[Lynxdk]

There are a lot more sources of history than the sometimes dubious, or gentle, wikipedia. One can learn a lot from Alexander and the ways he managed the cultures he conquered, verses the way the Romans copied from his examples, and then later failed, especially outside of the context of religious disputes and the histories written from the perspectives of the victors.

The more we know about the different ways others view things, the better able we can communicate, and share our love of God, as we know it, with those who may know something different, or none at all.

And aside from the current crops of terrorists that will murder for the sake of their insanity, most of the people who would Die for their beliefs, would die Defending them, not trying to force them on others.

 

[JosieN]

There are a lot more sources of history than the sometimes dubious, or gentle, wikipedia. One can learn a lot from Alexander and the ways he managed the cultures he conquered, verses the way the Romans copied from his examples, and then later failed, especially outside of the context of religious disputes and the histories written from the perspectives of the victors.

The more we know about the different ways others view things, the better able we can communicate, and share our love of God, as we know it, with those who may know something different, or none at all.

And aside from the current crops of terrorists that will murder for the sake of their insanity, most of the people who would Die for their beliefs, would die Defending them, not trying to force them on others.

I used Wikipedia because I did not want to give information without some type of reference. Everyone is familiar with Wikipedia,.