Income equality: abolish pensions based on having been a government employee

[oldgraymare2]

Life of luxury?

I had agreed with you in one of your other posts, too.

I had mentioned that depending on the pay grade, government jobs didn’t pay any differently than private sector jobs, and that there was probably a misunderstanding regarding what some people may think regarding this information.

 

[ndsolt]

Don’t tell people to work longer hours for the same pay. Don’t tell people to work through their paid vacation days. .

Who in their right mind would agree to this?

 

[ricmat]

Who in their right mind would agree to this?

In the private sector that’s what happens. It’s done to keep the company alive until things get better, for example. Something the government employees don’t have to worry about. I’m not surprised that you never heard of it.

 

[ricmat]

No, not really. There are a whole lot of people working really hard and they’ll never make ends meet. The old canard that, with hard work and dedication, you can lift yourself up by the bootstraps into a life of relative ease is drifting further and further from the truth.

Perhaps they choose to spend more than they make, no matter how much they make?

As for being paid what you’re worth–that’s a myth also. There’s a huge disconnect between a person’s value to the workplace and the wages he or she earns. As any line supervisor at any production plant if he’s making what he should relative to management. Ask any nurse if she’s making what she should be given the stress and long hours.

In the private arena, your real value is “what you can get” after looking around and taking the best option. I’ll quote somebody above and say “If you’d like one of those cushy management jobs, go ahead and get it - if you can.” That’s a fair thing to say in the private sector.

In the government arena, your ‘value’ is based on voting into office the person who is going to give you more. And it’s based on “time in service.” It has nothing to do with performance, ability, hard work, or whatever.

 

[on_the_hill]

.

In the government arena, your ‘value’ is based on voting into office the person who is going to give you more. And it’s based on “time in service.” It has nothing to do with performance, ability, hard work, or whatever.

Really?

 

[ndsolt]

In the private sector that’s what happens. It’s done to keep the company alive until things get better, for example. Something the government employees don’t have to worry about. I’m not surprised that you never heard of it.

I know of two people that do this, but they are business owners and that comes with the territory. I don’t know of anyone else who does. A friend of ours left his job in the grocery store because he being treated like he was the department manager, without the pay and title of a manager.

 

[pensmama87]

I had agreed with you in one of your other posts, too.

I had mentioned that depending on the pay grade, government jobs didn’t pay any differently than private sector jobs, and that there was probably a misunderstanding regarding what some people may think regarding this information.

Yes.

My husband recently changed jobs and so our financial outlook is much better. I normally hang out on the Family Life forum, so posters who are familiar with my posts there know that we’ve dealt with some really tough financial stuff. I basically spun straw into gold until this past spring. We’re not rich now, but I no longer have to do all the things I used to do to save money. We use toilet paper now, and I bought shampoo that cost more than $1. We even ate hamburgers tonight! I didn’t stretch the meat with beans or anything! Ah, getting rich off the government teat is so good. In two years we’ll even be able to afford a car with under 75,000 miles on it!

What ricmat says just indicates that he doesn’t know what he’s talking about. Taxpayers definitely should ensure their money is spent well. But his concerns are too broad, misplaced, inaccurate, and frankly offensive. So I’m done with this thread. Government employees, like all employees, deserve fair and just compensation. The fact that the private sector often fails in their duty to do this is not damning evidence against the public.

 

[stinkcat_14]

I think the only misconception is that government workers get paid less than the private sector.

If that is the case, then why do some departments that I work with have a hard time hiring people. If government employees always earn more than the private sector, then people should be lining up for those jobs, should they not?

 

[ricmat]

If that is the case, then why do some departments that I work with have a hard time hiring people. If government employees always earn more than the private sector, then people should be lining up for those jobs, should they not?

That’s a good question. Can you ask some managers in those departments why that is, and then get back to us?

I’ve only worked in the private sector, as both one being hired, and one doing the hiring. Sometimes there were people standing in line, sometimes there were none. It could be the economy. Also, a lot of people who have a job already might not want to change just for the money.

Does the government have “job fairs?” That would be a good place to look at how many are lining up.

 

[on_the_hill]

Some govt functions are contracted out to the private sector, and some of those position have awfully low salaries. Typically, these are in the social services, like social workers, drug &i alcohol counselors, etc. So you have the oversight positions in the govt and the rank-n-file as private contracts. In a lot of cases, social workers can make more money working in fast food.

Another example: starting salary for a public sector lawyer is about $40,000. That’s not much for four years of college and three years of law school.

 

[stinkcat_14]

That’s a good question. Can you ask some managers in those departments why that is, and then get back to us?

The reason is very simple, we don’t pay enough to attract people. People in those fields want about $30k per year more than we pay.

I’ve only worked in the private sector, as both one being hired, and one doing the hiring. Sometimes there were people standing in line, sometimes there were none. It could be the economy. Also, a lot of people who have a job already might not want to change just for the money.

Does the government have “job fairs?” That would be a good place to look at how many are lining up.

The problem is that in some fields, the government pays quite a bit less than the private sector. That can make it difficult to fill positions.

 

[ricmat]

I thought that this issue had been beaten pretty well to death, but then I just read this article from the LA Times, dated today. It’s not a pretty picture, and it covers most of what we’ve been posting about.

Read it, pay attention to the actual numbers, and weep (at least if you live in California).

BTW - the LA Times is a very left wing, pro government, pro union newspaper. And they can still see the handwriting on the wall.

 

[PseuTonym]

I just read this article from the LA Times, dated today.

Thank you.

For people who didn’t click on the link, the article is called “The pension gap”, the author is Jack Dolan, and the following is an excerpt:

Cities, counties and school districts across California are in the same financial vise. After state workers won richer retirement benefits, unions representing teachers, police, firefighters and other local employees demanded similar benefits, and got them in many cases.

Today, the difference between what all California government agencies have set aside for pensions and what they will eventually owe amounts to $241 billion, according to the state controller.

Gray Davis, who was elected governor of California in 1998 with more than $5 million in campaign contributions from public employee unions…

 

[oldgraymare2]

The reason is very simple, we don’t pay enough to attract people. People in those fields want about $30k per year more than we pay.

The problem is that in some fields, the government pays quite a bit less than the private sector. That can make it difficult to fill positions.

Agreed.

And as I mentioned before, many of these jobs are contract jobs or temporary jobs, where a person may not be hired on at the end of their contract, either. There is no guarantee of that happening.

So, they may have a job for awhile, and then when their contract is up, they may be out of a job.

 

[SyroMalankara]

I thought that this issue had been beaten pretty well to death, but then I just read this article from the LA Times, dated today. It’s not a pretty picture, and it covers most of what we’ve been posting about.

Read it, pay attention to the actual numbers, and weep (at least if you live in California).

BTW - the LA Times is a very left wing, pro government, pro union newspaper. And they can still see the handwriting on the wall.

Problem is, people were promised one thing and now politicians want to give another. That was not the ‘deal’ the two parties made with one another. Sure, private sector sometimes ‘screws’ the little guy - and should be rightfully sued. So, how is it fair that since private sector doesn’t always uphold their end of the bargain - therefore no one should?

 

[SyroMalankara]

That’s a good question. Can you ask some managers in those departments why that is, and then get back to us?

Pay is low, benefits are being cut, it’s hard to move up, and once you go public many private firms don’t want to hire anymore.

I’ve only worked in the private sector, as both one being hired, and one doing the hiring. Sometimes there were people standing in line, sometimes there were none. It could be the economy. Also, a lot of people who have a job already might not want to change just for the money.

Money is an incentive, as are benefits. Most people will go where their bottom line shows overall pay increase.

Does the government have “job fairs?” That would be a good place to look at how many are lining up.

Yes, a lot fewer than the beginning/middle of the recession

 

[ricmat]

Problem is, people were promised one thing and now politicians want to give another. That was not the ‘deal’ the two parties made with one another. Sure, private sector sometimes ‘screws’ the little guy - and should be rightfully sued. So, how is it fair that since private sector doesn’t always uphold their end of the bargain - therefore no one should?

Politicians promise a lot of things that don’t happen. I wonder why they promised all this to government workers and not everybody?

The bottom line that I get from the article is that there is absolutely no way to pay for these government pensions short of taking everything from the taxpayers and robbing all the banks so the government workers can get “what they were promised” which incidentally is not “their fair share.” Compared with everybody else it’s a whole lot more than fair share. Just because you got a politician to vote for it, doesn’t make it “real.”

What it all boils down to are the 4 most feared words in the government vocabulary – “THERE IS NO MONEY.” That’s the end of the line, and we’re very close to it.

Somebody has to be the grownup here, and put a stop to paying these ridiculous pensions no matter what some pandering politico promised.

 

[SyroMalankara]

Theres a few people taking advantage of an otherwise decent pension system. Most government employees i know work for lower than what private sector would offer, to eventually collect 80% of a calculated salary. They dont get Social Security in addition to the pension. Any pension is paid for by some percentage reduced from an already low wage, and 457 or 403 plans are earned wages.
There might be no money eventually, but the worker is to be given his due.

 

[SyroMalankara]

You may want to steal from the government worker to may yourself feel that misery loves company, but thats not how real life works. Ive worked public, private, non profit, academia… theres something called “the full faith and credit” of an entity that comes into question when they pull shenanigans. Private sector can declare bankruptcy start from scratch and pretend it never happened, public is much different. If the public entity fails its obligation, its credit is shot, who pays in the end? You and I do. Its better for Jim and Sally to get the pension they were promised, rather than fail to pay, lose credit and have the taxpayer pay interest at loan shark rates for simple goods and services.

 

[BobCatholic]

Who in their right mind would agree to this?

People who look at the terrible job market and see that they can’t find a better job.