Indianapolis archbishop revokes Jesuit prep school's Catholic identity

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Yes they do. And policies should be enforced.

I even mentioned how some districts I worked with had policies in place to prevent teachers from spending “friendly, not school related” time together with students. All of these were made clear from the beginning.

In the case of the first teacher, I don’t think the Jesuits either enforced or maybe even informed him of the policy. I think that is why they won’t fire him. And they shouldn’t if that is the actual case. It would be wrong to lie to him and then fire him for it.
 
If they were not enforcing those policies or the teacher was not informed of the policies, I agree they should not fire him. Conscience supersedes even obedience to the Archdiocese in that case. At the same time, it is perfectly reasonable to wonder WHY they were not enforcing such basic Catholic policies, and if they were enforced, why all their faculty members were not aware of them? This in itself is grounds not only for removing their Catholic identity from the Directory, but investigating how the administration is operating the school. I realize the Jesuits are a special order, but they are still Catholic and need to meet at least some criteria concerning what it means to be a Catholic school.
 
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I hesitate to put Jesuits in the same class as lawyers, because many of those lawyer jokes are mean, even if they have a lot of truth in them. Some of them are really funny too. I have several friends and a few family members who attended Jesuit universities. They sometimes refer to them as “almost Catholic.”

In the early 1990’s when I was living in Indianapolis, I once overheard two men talking in a grocery store about something that really matters to Hoosiers, high school basketball. One of the tournament teams they mentioned was Brebeuf. The one said, “They are not Catholic, are they”? The second man did not know either. I am glad I did not jump in to correct them. I would not be able to find them again with the revised information.

When I was in college I had a class in comparative religions that was taught by a Jesuit. I could only audit the course because I was a freshman in an honors program and the school would not let me take more than 20 hours in a semester. I am afraid that course would not exist today because the attitude would be that all religions are just the same anyway.

I also had a moral theology course that used a textbook written by a Jesuit in the 1960’s. When I donated that book to our parish library many years later, I felt compelled to ask the rector if it would be acceptable. This is very sad because the Jesuits were once considered the most rigorous defenders of the faith. Many of them were martyrs.
 
RealisticCatholic said:
What would Jesus do?

I can’t imagine him kicking out people of their place of work simply because they happen to be in an unideal living situation.

I’m sure if Jesus were here, he’d do what he always does and surprise us by turning things around on we — the true sinners — and say something like “This gay man and his couple do more good and care for each other more than any you brood of vipers!”
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John Chapter 8:
*16 Jesus said to her, “Go call your husband and come back.”
*17 The woman answered and said to him, “I do not have a husband.” Jesus answered her, “You are right in saying, ‘I do not have a husband.’
18 For you have had five husbands, and the one you have now is not your husband. What you have said is true.”
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Something that I think is important to point out is that the students are more likely to have an affect on the beliefs of each other than the teachers will. This is especially true when it comes to their close circle of friends. When a school is no longer a “real” Catholic school (like Jesuit Prep) for several years, it’s unlikely that the students are much different than the students at the local public school. Their circle of friends will be much the same in beliefs and behavior.

It’s easy to think that teachers are the influence and in some cases it’s true. But honestly kids learn more at home and from their friends than from us. Teachers contribute by what we allow to go on in the classrooms and on school grounds, during school activities, etc; however, the administration determines what is acceptable. For the most part all we are allowed to do is enforce their decisions. That’s why the “culture of a school” can change drastically when a new principal is hired.
 
What did Jesus actually say?

Then Jesus straightened up and said to her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”
She replied, “No one, sir.” Then Jesus said, “Neither do I condemn you. Go, (and) from now on do not sin any more.”

John 8:10-11

For some reason that last sentence is hardly ever quoted compared the the preceding sentence. We don’t know for sure what happened to that woman. If she told Jesus to mind his own business and accept her choices as good, it would not have gone well for her.

And:

“Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe (in me) to sin, it would be better for him if a great millstone were put around his neck and he were thrown into the sea.”

Mark 9:42

The Archbishop of Indianapolis rightly believes that giving scandal requires a serious response.
 
Ah, but just what Jesus believed was sinful or not, therein lies the key. He was, after all, quite a revolutionary rabbinical figure, who interpreted the Law in subtle and controversial ways with a critical eye toward hypocritical behavior. And He was not too thrilled with the traditional ways of defining sin; indeed He often defied tradition and the establishment.
 
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Ooh, thank you for pointing this out! You have given me much to consider today.

For one, the word hypocrisy is sometimes misused. Just as “racism” and “persecution” and “merciful” are sometimes misused. People will toss these words around as a way to shut down conversation and dialogue. They are powerful words. I don’t think that is a new occurrence. We see “conversation stoppers” used in the Bible as well.

(I just re read my response. I hope it doesn’t come across as I think you are guilty of this. I had instances in my own life in mind, no one else. Once again, thank you)
 

After refusing archdiocese’s order to fire gay teacher, school is told it will no longer be recognized as Catholic​

www.washingtonpost.com.ico
The Washington Post|4 days ago

“Paulson, who heads the Midwest Province of Jesuits, said the archdiocese told Brebeuf Jesuit Preparatory School two years ago not to renew the contract…”
This quote is from the Washington Post.
Long before the the request for dismissal, the Archdiocese issued a request to not renew the teaching contract. Why do you think that the school would lie to its teacher about these things?
The request to terminate followed the school’s decision to renew a contract, in opposition to the Archdiocese in which the school operates.
 
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I don’t have an answer. That is for the administration to answer. Apparently they felt strongly about keeping him for whatever reason. I hope it is about his exemplary service to the school and students and not just using him as a political pawn in a fight against the bishop. Either way, this information makes it appear even less about this teacher and more about the school itself. I am surprised the diocese waited this long to react.
 
Turning things around in a diocese may take a great deal of time as this situation illustrates.
The choice to act seems to have occurred two years ago with the arrival of the new bishop and, as yet, the solution sought has yet to be realized.
Of course, if we look at past attempts to reform the Church they have often taken many years to make headway. We know that the Church will prevail but only God knows the timeline.
 
Very true.

Not the area I “grew up in” but the diocese I moved to when I was 16 had a few schools like this in a larger city. You could tell a family’s stance on numerous issues by which school they sent their kids to. A new bishop was named to that diocese not too long after I was out of school. He also was a canon lawyer. Many longtime “favorite teachers” were fired. Unfortunately the schools really never changed their “culture” even with the firings because the parents liked things the way they were. I wonder if the diocese shouldn’t have just done what this bishop did and remove the right to use Catholic instead.

The schools there still do what Jesuit Prep probably does. They invoke “Catholic” when it suits a purpose and ignore it when it doesn’t. This is part of where the stereotype of Catholic schools being full of privileged rich kids comes from. It truly describes a decent size portion of the schools. If someone grew up in a diocese where that is the norm, that is the only example they have.

Many of the public schools still refuse to play sports against some of the Catholic schools because “those people are so mean.” The behavior tolerated at the games would not be allowed from the students at other private and public schools. Thankfully the catholic school we moved into was excellent. I pray it stays that way.

Parents need to realize just because a school claims to be Catholic doesn’t mean it teaches HOW TO BE Catholic. Maybe the example of this bishop will inspire parents to better explore the schools they choose for their kids. There are times a Catholic school Can actually harm faith. That has little to actually do with the teachers though. It’s more about the culture and what the administration allows
 
I don’t think people who do not teach and do not have teachers in their family realize how much the tone and culture of a school, Catholic or non-Catholic, private or public, depends on the administration. And for all the creativity and excellence of any particular teacher, their style of teaching can either be encouraged or rejected by the principal or headmaster of a school.
 
The Catholic schools in Indianpolis are mostly concerned with finances. Money first, and all other decisions follow.
 
cloistered said:
The Catholic schools in Indianpolis are mostly concerned with finances. Money first, and all other decisions follow.
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I left Indianapolis in 1995 and moved back to Fort Wayne. Some things have changed since then, and some have not. One thing that has remained constant is that Indianapolis has a rather low percentage of Catholics, only about 10%. What has changed is that Indiana now has a large school choice program. Even before this, the Indianapolis public school system was so bad that parents were putting their children in private schools if they could afford it. The state was on the verge of taking over the city’s school system when the voucher system passed. With vouchers available, even more parents put their children into private schools. This meant a lot of poor non-Catholics were attending Catholic schools.

So many children left the public system that Fort Wayne Community Schools has more students enrolled even though Indianapolis has a population of about three times that of Fort Wayne. The school choice law was written with protections for the private schools. If a school required students to take religion classes, the new voucher students were not exempt from that requirement. They could just choose to attend a different school that agreed with their religious beliefs. The one requirement was that any school accepting voucher students had to be accredited by the state. Most of the small Protestant churches that sponsored schools did not meet the requirements for accreditation. If a Catholic school wanted to remain Catholic, they were on solid legal grounds. If they chose to give up a Catholic identity to match the increasing number of non-Catholic students, they might get even more students and therefore more funding, but they gave up a great opportunity to evangelize; something Jesuits like the school’s patron saint used to risk persecution and even death to do.
 
Hoosier-Daddy said:
I pitty the kids who have been harmed there.
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Given that this decision will likely drive those children further from the Church you should continue to pity them. Jesus didn’t run screaming at the sight of sinners, we shouldn’t either.
 
Felicia1 said:
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Hoosier-Daddy:
I pitty the kids who have been harmed there.
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Given that this decision will likely drive those children further from the Church you should continue to pity them. Jesus didn’t run screaming at the sight of sinners, we shouldn’t either.
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By that logic, if a Catholic hospital starts performing abortions, the local diocese should keep the RC label on, to avoid making people feel bad. Self Esteem has become a fifth Mark of the Church. Catholic Charities should drop their “Domestic Violence” programs, because that makes rough men feel bad. So negative.
 
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