Indianapolis archbishop revokes Jesuit prep school's Catholic identity

[signit]

13pollitos:

Serious question here, would safe environment even allow for teachers to have interaction outside of school with students these days? If so, that needs to be looked at and changed.

This, I do not know. I am pretty sure some of the stuff that went on “backintheday” would be disallowed nowadays when as I understand it, you need to have two adults present to even be in a car with a minor.

Indeed, that’s what I was thinking; safety considerations.

“Backintheday” some kids walked to school and home by themselves; the ones that took the bus could be dropped off at the bus stop with no parent present.

As a teacher, many of the districts I have worked for had rules against us having non school function contact with our students. To the degree that even if my kids were friends with students I had taught a few years before, those students could not visit my home. My kids could go to theirs or they could meet in public (movies, games, etc) with the other students family to supervise. We even had protocol for running into them at the park, zoo, ball games, etc (keep it short and sweet).

Not all districts did, but it was something that was good for all involved. It al least cuts down on situations that are unethical or could be construed as unethical.

That’s true, too; there are ethical considerations.

In business school in the U.S., one of my instructors told one of the (foreign) students that he couldn’t accept a gift from her at the end of the year.

If one kid is friendly with the teachers outside class, or if their family is, it opens things up for possible criticism, e.g., claims that somebody got a grade they didn’t deserve because of the relationship outside of class.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Backintheday” some kids walked to school and home by themselves; the ones that took the bus could be dropped off at the bus stop with no parent present.

Kids still do this some places. It’s not part of the “safe environment policy” that a parent does or does not choose to let their kids walk to school, or take the bus with no parent present. (Depending on your local laws, it may be against the law to let a kid under a certain age walk around without an older parent or babysitter, but that’s a local law issue, not a school issue.) Also, by the time a kid is in their teens, they are likely going a lot of places including to/from school by themselves.

The specific safety we’re concerned about here is teachers and staff behaving inappropriately with kids or being falsely accused of so doing.

 

[Trader]

I was able to ask the judicial vicar of our diocese about this case after mass yesterday. His main point was that the Archbishop of Indianapolis is the primary person charged with the care of souls in his Archdiocese; that now matter where these children attend school “they are all his children.” If the bishop of any diocese sees a case of scandal being given by an institution identifying itself as Catholic, he has both the right and duty to act.

Not that long ago, Roncali High School in Indianapolis suspended a counselor who was involved in a same sex “marriage”. Because Roncali was a diocesan school, the suspension was only protested by a few students and their parents, but not by the school itself.

The action against the independent Jesuit high school was not done without consultation with the school. If the school continues to defy the archbishop, other possible actions could include ordering offending priests to leave the Archdiocese. That would be very unusual and hopefully will not be necessary.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I wouldn’t be surprised if this sort of thing is a widespread issue at Jesuit high schools. It seems the Jesuits may want to push the envelope on this same-sex marriage business just like they have a history of pushing on other things. If it does go to the Vatican it will be interesting to see the ruling.

 

[Trader]

Yet another Indianapolis Catholic High School, Cathedral High School, operated by the Brothers of the Holy Cross, has chosen to fire a gay teacher in order to keep its Catholic identity.

To save its 'Catholic identity,' Indianapolis' Cathedral High School is firing a gay teacher

Cathedral High School is one of 68 schools Catholic recognized by the Archdiocese of Indianapolis and serves about 1,100 students in grades 9-12.

www.usatoday.com

As can be predicted with 100% accuracy, secular media reporting makes no distinction between same sex attraction and specific actions which are scandalous to faithful Catholics. We all saw the same thing with businesses claiming conscience objections to providing services for same sex weddings.

More than 52 years ago my high school religion teacher told us that, “When you read of church matters in the secular press, you can in good conscience, believe the opposite.” The issue then was mostly ignorance. That is still true today, but outright hostility to the Catholic Church and religion in general has been increasing rapidly.

USA Today makes the story more of a financial decision, but I certainly hope it was more out of love for the Catholic faith and the welfare of impressionable students.

 

[13pollitos]

Unnecessary targeting of LGBT people, pure and simple.

I don’t know for sure this is accurate but the very fact that THIS is the only issue that has caused the Catholic status to be threatened, it feels that way. Looking over the website of Jesuit Prep, this is not a school that has abided by the diocesan standards for years.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Don’t private school teachers have morals clauses in their contracts to cover public behavior, when it is a religious school?

It seems like this would also apply to Christian, non-Catholic schools. I’ve heard of morals clauses where a teacher could be terminated for cohabitating with an opposite sex partner, or for drinking alcohol.

 

[commenter]

Historically the Jesuits have been perceived as overly close to “the establishment”. They were chaplains for the kings, established schools for children of the royalty.

It might seem like things are different now, since they constantly talk about Social Justice, and rush to be at the front of every Protest March. But really, they are still part of the establishment.

They only campaign for causes promoted by the Media which is the main source of power now. In this case, they are pretending the Archdiocese is Goliath, and the Jesuits are courageously standing up for David. In reality, the real Goliath is the massive public school, political, and media establishment. And the Jesuits supporting the establishment.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

It might seem like things are different now, since they constantly talk about Social Justice, and rush to be at the front of every Protest March. But really, they are still part of the establishment.

In my lifetime, I have yet to see a US Jesuit who was close to “the establishment” unless you define “the establishment” as somewhere between liberals and leftists. Every single one of them that I’ve encountered was progressive. If there is a conservative one out there, he wasn’t around any Jesuit institution I’ve ever seen.

Perhaps you are saying that liberals have become “the establishment”.

 

[13pollitos]

Some do and if the teacher is in violation it is expected to be enforced for ALL types of violations, not just one. It doesn’t seem to be happening here

 

[Tis_Bearself]

How do we know that isn’t happening here? Do you have personal awareness of any teachers at these schools who are cohabiting or acting publicly immoral in ways other than gay marriage, thus causing a scandal, and not already been let go? Obviously the news media is not going to be doing a story on a teacher who was fired for immoral heterosexual behavior.

 

[commenter]

Perhaps you are saying that liberals have become “the establishment”.

Liberalism has been establishment in the media since about 1960. They have usually been established in politics, definitely at all levels of public education and college.

Since about the 1980s liberalism is dominated by secularism.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I noted that this Brebeuf school was only founded in 1962. That was enough to make me raise an eyebrow at it.

 

[Weserthy]

It very well might be that the Archbishop is doing some housecleaning in his diocese. He has only been there for about two years. The previous Archbishop of Indianapolis was the now Cardinal Tobin of Newark, who, needless to say, would probably have declined to take action against schools that were flouting Church teaching in this manner. These actions were probably in the works for some time and were probably seen as overdue by some in the Archdiocese, especially if Cardinal Tobin declined to address them during his tenure, but the new Archbishop might not have wanted to come firing out of the gate right after his appointment. So here we are and we have a couple of cases back-to-back. I guess you might as well get it all over with at once and rip off the band-aid. As others have said, there have probably been teachers/staff let go for other reasons, but because this is about same-sex “marriage” and any action seen as persecuting gay people is seen as a juicy story in the media, it gets widespread coverage. The Jesuits being involved in the first school helped too I am sure.

 

[Trader]

In our diocese, Fort Wayne-South Bend, a teacher was fired for insisting that the school’s insurance should pay for her second attempt at in-vitro fertilization. The issue is not that all sinners should be fired. It is that unrepentant public sinners should not be in positions of ministry and teaching by example that objectively immoral behavior is not sin. During this episode, another teacher at nearby Catholic school told me how she had promised to abide by the terms of her contract, even though she was not Catholic. It was important to her. She entered into full communion this Easter.

I am quite sure that teachers who were advocating for contraception and cohabitation would be fired. Our bishop overruled the firing of two Catholic school teachers who married only four or five months before their full term baby was born. They were sorry and were trying to do the right thing after doing the wrong thing.

Priests are also removed from ministry for sexual sins if they become public. All people in ministry should be held to a high standard.

 

[13pollitos]

Obviously the news media is not going to be doing a story on a teacher who was fired for immoral heterosexual behavior.

Oh yes they would. If a teacher was fired for sex before marriage, pregnancy before marriage, abortion, contraception, in vitro, divorced and remarried, living with fiancé (some of those have linked articles already in this thread from previous years), the media would be all over it. None of those things are seen as wrong by society or even many Protestants. All are against the diocese code that was posted. All are more common in Catholic schools, churches and families than same sex married couples.

 

[13pollitos]

He may be and that is his right. As long as the teachers affected are aware of this code of conduct, or if not given an opportunity to rectify or job search ahead of time. Since at least one school has opted to not fire the teacher, it is possible the teachers were not made aware of the diocesan standards until recently.

I don’t believe stories about in vitro or contraception use leading to being fired would be ignored by the media though. That would be used to perfectly vilify the church as anti woman and reproductive rights enemy #1.

 

[13pollitos]

This is good information. Thanks for posting!

I did read about the teacher fired for in vitro.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Teachers have been fired from religious schools, including Catholic, for being pregnant out of wedlock. Someone just posted in this thread that two teachers were fired over this in a diocese and a bishop reversed it because they did get married albeit only after the pregnancy had gone on for several months.

The only reason a teacher “living with fiance(e)” might not be fired is that the marriage would soon be taking place, which would remove the problem.

I am not sure why you are rushing to take the side of the gay married teachers in all this, but as I have said before in the thread, it is impossible for a school to teach kids that a behavior is morally wrong when the teacher in the next classroom is openly doing it and everybody is fine with that.

Moreover, there is a huge question of obedience here. The rule is that the Bishop makes the rules; the Jesuits have decided to not go along simply because they don’t have any economic reason to bother doing so, they have their own superior, and they want to march to their own drummer. Do you not see this as a danger to the Church? When the Bishop says do something, it doesn’t matter if you think it is wrong; unless it’s heresy or completely contradicts Church teaching, which this certainly doesn’t, then you obey. If this goes to Rome, it is going to be very odd if the Vatican decides to uphold the Jesuits over the diocesan bishop who is supposed to have the authority.

 

[13pollitos]

I am not sure why you are rushing to take the side of the gay married teachers in all this

Wrong. Rushing to the side of TEACHERS regardless of way they live their private lives.

Maybe because the original article stated the teacher was not fired and the school was stripped of the title catholic which everyone has agreed was the right thing to do. It wasn’t a catholic school long before any of this.

Teachers have the right to not be fired for anything someone may not like. Imagine a world where a Christian is fired from public schools because they are spreading the gospel every evening after school hours. It could happen. Teachers deserve privacy as well as anyone else.

If a teacher is aware of the code the diocese has, there is no problem enforcing it. If the teacher was never made aware (which is likely since he WAS NOT FIRED), and they have glowing reviews from students, parents, school, how is it ok to fire anyone? The school obviously agrees it would be wrong. They agree so much they were willing to fight for him.

Teachers have rights too. Doesn’t matter who that teacher is. If the diocese is uniform in enforcement of violations and no one is subjected to harsher punishments, I see no problem — IF the teachers are made aware. Now they most certainly are aware.