Indianapolis archbishop revokes Jesuit prep school's Catholic identity

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

Do we remove the “Catholic” name from the institutions that brought us severe harm to others in the form of sexual child abuse at the hands of Priests…no need to answer.

If the perpetrators are not being punished, and there are no corrective actions being taken, then…yes, the name “Catholic” should be removed.

Teaching is a form of ministry. It does untold damage to the souls and minds of children when their teachers aren’t walking the talk.

People should consider the tremendous responsibility they have when teaching children. It’s not a joke, and it’s not simply another job.

 

[commenter]

I am puzzled about why the provincial chose to personally weigh in with such a strong statement on this matter, defying the archdiocese. The Jesuits have a small connection to the school - I found 2 listed on the staff directory, are there others? Likely one on the board of directors. The school claims Jesuit methodology, but that means maybe a training day each year. The real Justice issue here is parents are paying Catholic school tuition for what seems to be a mostly public school education.

What if someone’s “conscience” leads them to White Supremacist activity, outside school hours? Would Brebauf support the conscience rights of that teacher?

 

[Tis_Bearself]

This is a very important, I would even say landmark, case, and it raises many questions

That’s interesting you see it as a “landmark” case. The only thing I see remarkable about it is it might set a precedent for the amount of authority a bishop has over schools run by an order in his diocese.

 

[13pollitos]

People should consider the tremendous responsibility they have when teaching children. It’s not a joke, and it’s not simply another job.

This is very uncharitable to teachers who spend the bulk of their lives teaching and caring for children who are not own own. We realize the weight of our work. But how many parents who are the ones who the children are most influenced by are perfect examples of Catholics?

What you and others are suggesting is that teachers need to be the shining example of perfection and parents don’t. How many parents are gossiping, watching pornography, having affairs, using contraception, treating others uncharitably, treating the families disrespectfully, or continuously practicing any other sin on an ongoing basis? Do you honestly believe that has less bearing on the kids than a teacher they see in a school setting? If so, that explains many of the problems teachers are facing in our classrooms.

Seriously, if we are going to be held to a higher standard than parents are, we not only need a pay raise but more respect. Do parents truly think it is a teachers job to be the shining example in their kids’ lives? Where does that leave their parents? The number one influence in a child’s life should be their parents, and quite honestly they are.

I am a catholic mom and I raise my children in the church. They have that example at home, they don’t need it at school. Part of what I expect at school is for them to learn to deal with people who are different, who live differently, who believe differently, in a way that is respectful and which cements the values of our Catholic faith without being swayed while they are still at home under MY influence. I want them to go out in the world (university, work, whatever) and not be shocked by that the outside world isn’t like home.

Look, if this were an elementary teacher with a history of introducing his spouse to his students or somehow promoting gay marriage in a Catholic school, I would agree that he is not being a good example. Kids that young should not have access to Facebook or whatever so a social media post is unlikely to be seen by them. If it is, that is on the parents. I could still see it being an issue. But these are HIGH SCHOOL, soon to be adults at university aged students. By this age, if parents haven’t done their job of cementing their faith into their children, the least of the problems their children will face is a teacher who is not perfect.

The bishop has the right to deny their placement in a directory. He even has the right to not allow them to use the word Catholic to describe themselves. But for posters to imply we don’t take our responsibilities seriously or view it as a joke if very uncharitable.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

At some point in these kids’ lives, they are going to have to confront the fact that they will probably be meeting gay people, married to or living with gay partners, who are likable and good at their work, and they will have to figure out how they will react to this just like all the rest of us have had to do.

I think the question here is twofold:

1. Is high school too young to be exposing kids still in their very formative years to this while simultaneously trying to teach them that sex outside marriage is wrong, gay sex is wrong and gay people can’t get married in the Church; and
2. Is a Catholic school, by hiring gay married people for a public role of educating the youth, giving a tacit endorsement somehow to gay marriage.

Taken to extremes, you could end up with a dozen gay married teachers working in a school that is like I said simultaneously trying to teach teenagers that gay sex and gay marriage are mortal sins. This is going to cause all kinds of issues. Teens are very sensitive to perceived hypocrisy.

I can see good reasons for the Bishop’s position here.

 

[13pollitos]

The bishop does have the right and responsibility to deny schools in his diocese whatever he chooses. But let me ask you this? Is it even possible that the parents of students who are opposed to things contrary to their faith are going to stand for this

Taken to extremes, you could end up with a dozen gay married teachers working in a school that is like I said simultaneously trying to teach teenagers that gay sex and gay marriage are mortal sins. This is going to cause all kinds of issues. Teens are very sensitive to perceived hypocrisy.

I am absolutely positive most would pull their kids from that school long before that became a possibility. There have been many private catholic schools founded by devout parents throughout the US for lesser reasons. There are so many options in education that don’t require parents to shell out over $18,000 a year that are not as likely to damage their faith.

Seriously, parents need to accept some of the responsibility here instead of putting all the blame on the teachers. Don’t pay for schools that don’t teach what you believe. Know what your money is buying. If you see that your child is struggling, do something about it.

 

[13pollitos]

The schools website says this:

“ * Approximately 50% of Brebeuf Jesuit’s students are non-Catholic and ascribe to a variety of traditions, including multiple denominations of Protestantism, Judaism, Hinduism, Islam, Sikhism, and many more”

Parents seeking a thoroughly Catholic education should realize that this is not the place to receive one. The bishop should have done this a very long time ago. Why wait until a teacher is a married gay man? That also seems like hypocrisy.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

What you and others are suggesting is that teachers need to be the shining example of perfection and parents don’t.

I never said that.
I take my responsibility as a parent very seriously. Having children made me way more conscious of learning to live with charity and integrity (i e my insides should be matching my outsides). And then when they brought their friends home, I feel responsible to them, too. It’s not my job to be the hip cool parent. My job is to set a good example.

DH and I have made a lot of sacrifices to send our kiddos to CATHOLIC school. It’s a reasonable expectation that the teachers won’t go undermining what we’ve taught them in the home. It’s perfectly reasonable for our kids to get the Catholic education we paid a lot of money for.

Yes, I get that it’s a lot of pressure to be an example to the children, or to those weak in the faith. But teachers have a LOT of influence on the kids. Even the teachers the kids don’t like carry the weight of authority. And I’ve had the experience of my kiddo saying “well, mom, you say such-and-such, but Mr Teacher told us something different.” And the more shiny and fun Mr Teacher is, the more weight his words carry.

Now, in this case, the teacher didn’t commit a venial sin, correct himself and use it as a teaching moment to the kids for how we all have to try harder in our spiritual walk.

He deliberately chose to persist in a mortal sin, shows NO signs of repentance, and the kids found out about it.

Now what? How seriously do we take our faith?

 

[13pollitos]

I agree especially with this

DH and I have made a lot of sacrifices to send our kiddos to CATHOLIC school

You two as parents would never have opted for the school in question. This is not a situation you would have to deal with. Check out the school’s website. This instance is not what made it unattractive to parents seeking a catholic education. The bishop should have stepped in long ago. Instead he waited for this and to the society we live in, it makes him appear to be a bigot and hypocrite.

Keep up the good work raising your kids. More parents need to be there. We wouldn’t expect teachers or others in society to be that role model in all aspects of life if more parents did their job. This school would not have been listed as Catholic for several years now of parents were really worried about what their kids were learning there. It’s good that you do care

 

[pnewton]

Why do the kids need to look at their teachers lives outside of the classroom?

It is not a question of need. It is a characteristic of community. I went to a huge high school, and even then I knew several teachers and both principals outside of school. That is why Catholic schools, along with some other professions, have a code of conduct that extends outside of work.

 

[commenter]

This is a very important, I would even say landmark, case, and it raises many questions. … I have also read that Jesuit schools enjoy a certain degree of autonomy from the authority of the Archdiocese and that this interference in Jesuit school policy by a bishop is a first. This kind of interference could therefore set a precedent.

Not as unusual as you might think.
Wikipedia lists 22 US now-open colleges that once we’re Catholic, but are not. This list left off 2 in my diocese so the total likely is much higher.

There are countless other former Catholic hospitals, social service agencies, and other ministries,
all of which were once listed in a diocesan directory, are still operating, but not listed as Catholic.

The difference here is that some Jesuits have made it a big media case.

All orders of priests have some autonomy. But this is mostly a lay operated school anyway.
Keep in mind the Archbishop is not demanding the Jesuits take this school out of their Directory of Jesuit Schools. That’s their business.

 

[13pollitos]

I don’t even know the principal of my school outside of school events. I know very few of the other teachers outside of school either. To me, community is centered around family, friends and church.

The bishop has the right to do what he did but waiting to do it now after all the years of not truly being a Catholic School only makes it look bad.

 

[commenter]

The bishop has the right to do what he did but waiting to do it now after all the years of not truly being a Catholic School only makes it look bad.

Better late than never.
I waited too many years to start a sensible diet and exercise program. But I am glad I finally did.
The secular media is going to trash the Catholic Faith no matter what the bishops do. The bishop has a responsibility to try to help not only the souls of students and parents, but also the people running this school.

At the moment they want to “kill” the messenger, but in the long run they will benefit.

 

[Thorolfr]

He deliberately chose to persist in a mortal sin, shows NO signs of repentance, and the kids found out about it.

The Jesuits have said that the teacher does not teach religion and he might not even be Catholic. There are quite a lot of Catholic schools that hire teachers who are not Catholic. That being the case, maybe he belongs to a Christian denomination that doesn’t think that what he has done is a mortal sin and is something he should repent for.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

Well, in any case, it was a big botched up mess from the get go

 

[commenter]

0Scarlett_nidiyilii:

He deliberately chose to persist in a mortal sin, shows NO signs of repentance, and the kids found out about it.

The Jesuits have said that the teacher does not teach religion and he might not even be Catholic. There are quite a lot of Catholic schools that hire teachers who are not Catholic. That being the case, maybe he belongs to a Christian denomination that doesn’t think that what he has done is a mortal sin and is something he should repent for.

But there is another commandment against Bearing False Witness. If the administrators tell parents (and collecting money) by saying the school is something the school is not (according to the person in authority to determine that) they sin against 8th commandment.

The bishop has a responsibility to affirm the 8th commandment.

Suppose a Catholic hospital decides to “follow their conscience” and perform abortions. Should the bishop be required to keep that hospital in the listing of Catholic hospitals?

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I don’t think this burden should always be placed back on the parents. Many parents who send their kids to Catholic schools are non-Catholir or nominally Catholic. Perhaps the parent does not think of this as an issue; perhaps the parent does not care. Does that somehow exempt the school from needing to get its act together and send a clear message about what Catholics are required to believe, if it is going to call itself “Catholic”?

If it ceases to call itself “Catholic” then the issue goes away.

 

[13pollitos]

If it ceases to call itself “Catholic” then the issue goes away.

Exactly. If catholic parents want to ensure a catholic education that they are paying very good money for, the Catholic parents need to be involved enough to know what their money is buying. They have the responsibility to bring issues to the attention of their bishop because non catholic parents are unlikely to. It is easy to look at a website, tour a school, talk to other parents and the faculty. Usually it’s pretty clear which schools are Catholic and which are just called that.

I know that a good catholic school Can be a huge blessing. I attended a couple of them growing up. But nothing does more to destroy the faith of a child than a school that claims to be catholic and isn’t. One school was really awful. My parents pulled us and sent us to a public school during those years and it was the best thing they could have ever done. Parents have to be involved enough with their kids to know if a school is a good fit for their values or not.

 

[meltzerboy2]

BREAKING NEWS: Another Catholic high school in Indianapolis–Cathedral High School–has, preemptively, fired a gay male teacher in a same-sex marriage so as to avoid losing its Catholic status. The decision was reportedly agonizing but necessary, and a message went out to all members of the school community.

 

[13pollitos]

Why do schools feel the need to keep their Catholic status? Is there some benefit beyond the directory? I feel like I’m missing something.