Infant vs. Believer's Baptism

[Kitty_Chan]

so if adult baptism is a no go then what do people who didnt get baptisted do that join the Catholic Church??

Just what does infant baptism do for the infant, point in case my brother who was the only one of us 3 baptisted, and could care less about God? Not angry just does not believe. And never went to church. It sounds a bit OSAS to me, at least thats what Im getting.

Why cant Catholics get rebaptisted (probably more descriptive than used never heard it put that way) when they are older. They certainly cant remember the first time so perhaps want to show publically their faith in Jesus.? Maybe its a faith building thing that is being denyed?

 

[BelFarfalla]

so if adult baptism is a no go then what do people who didnt get baptisted do that join the Catholic Church??

And adult who has never been baptised in the Catholic Church would of course need to be baptised as an adult.

What is a no-go is rebaptism by a non-Catholic.

Just what does infant baptism do for the infant, point in case my brother who was the only one of us 3 baptisted, and could care less about God? Not angry just does not believe. And never went to church. It sounds a bit OSAS to me, at least thats what Im getting.

The faith does not end with baptism. There is more a person need to do and to learn. Being baptised as an infant does not ensure that a person will grow up to be religous. But it does bring them into the family of the faith early on.

Here is a very good article on the differences between Catholic baptism and baptism by most prodestants.
catholic.com/library/Infant_Baptism.asp

Why cant Catholics get rebaptisted (probably more descriptive than used never heard it put that way) when they are older. They certainly cant remember the first time so perhaps want to show publically their faith in Jesus.? Maybe its a faith building thing that is being denyed?

The word is ‘rebaptism’, there are entire heresies that revolve around this idea. Rebaptism is a form of denying the first baptism. To suggest that a Catholic should be rebaptised is an insult and actually an underhanded way to coerce them into your belief system.

To get baptised to make a public showing of faith in Jesus is… what does that do for a person? To brag? Is that what faith is reduced to?

Catholics have other ‘faith buidling’ sacrements… confirmation, first holy communion, and so forth. These are the ways a person accepts their faith as they get older.

I have an idea, why don’t you go through Catholic confirmation and first holy communion as that you can pubilcally make a show of your faith in Jesus… sounds outragious doesn’t it? This is how your suggestion of a prodestant rebaptism for a Catholic sounds to us.

 

[BelFarfalla]

Not sure where to post this.

A Protestant Pastor I know really well wants me to be baptised as an adult. He knows I was baptized as an infant, but wanted to present me with scripture as to why God commands us to do so as an adult. This baptism would NOT initiate me into his church or his denomination. In fact, it would not even make me a member of his church. Here is the scripture he gave me. I’m not sure what to believe about infant vs believer’s baptism.

…
quote]

Baptism is a serious commitment. It is not a social event. Surely your firend knows that he is asking you to make a serious break with the Catholic Church in doing this. I’d ask myself why he is pushing you to something you don’t seem comfortable about. He’s telling you that the Catholic Church is in error. Do you really believe this?

Here is a very good article on the differences between Catholic and non-Catholic baptism.

catholic.com/library/Infant_Baptism.asp

Here’s one that mentions the topic.
A baptized person never shall knowingly be rebaptized, for to do so would be an act of unfaith and denial of God’s infinite Grace.
ecchurch.org/doctrines.htm

 

[Kitty_Chan]

And adult who has never been baptised in the Catholic Church would of course need to be baptised as an adult.
What is a no-go is rebaptism by a non-Catholic.

ok I was getting the impression there was no adult baptism thats why I said it was a no go,

The faith does not end with baptism. There is more a
person need to do and to learn. Being baptised as an infant does not ensure that a person will grow up to be religous. But it does bring them into the family of the faith early on.

The reason I ask is its coming across in the posts, that if your baptised as a infant then your done. So it was sounding like a version of once saved. So I was seeking clarification. It may bring them into the family of faith but so does a non baptism baby dedication. And in the case of my brother, my family didnt attend church. There was a fight between faiths so mom said she left it to us to decide.

So I guess if my brother wanted to join the CC then hes ahead of me cause of the baptism even though he doesnt believe??

The word is ‘rebaptism’, there are entire heresies that revolve around this idea. Rebaptism is a form of denying the first baptism. To suggest that a Catholic should be rebaptised is an insult and actually an underhanded way to coerce them into your belief system.

I only said I hadnt heard the tem and was wondering if it was a actual term. Coerce is fairly strong, Im not even sure it would deny the first, maybe confirm it. But you would have to ask that pastor where his heart was on the issue.

As a note the use of heresies to a person inquiring about some confusion tends to be insulting, I envision a stake and fire, sorry but I do and it serves no purpose to use it, if you wouldnt mind.

To get baptised to make a public showing of faith in Jesus is… what does that do for a person? To brag? Is that what faith is reduced to?
Catholics have other ‘faith buidling’ sacrements… confirmation, first holy communion, and so forth. These are the ways a person accepts their faith as they get older…

Id have to look it up but one of the things of baptism is its done in public, not in a grandstanding way like you suppose. So theres no reducing of faith. If it reduced faith then churches would be empty. I only asked what if a catholic wanted to get baptised even in their church would it be allowed, but it looks like it wouldnt.

I have an idea, why don’t you go through Catholic confirmation and first holy communion as that you can pubilcally make a show of your faith in Jesus… sounds outragious doesn’t it? This is how your suggestion of a prodestant rebaptism for a Catholic sounds to us.

To be clear I wasnt suggesting a rebaptism, I asked about it and even mentioned that I didnt think it was even a correct term. And to use your confirmation and holy commumion as a deterant to myself, presumes alot on your part. perhaps its late, but I feel sorry for trying to ask in the first place.

 

[BelFarfalla]

ok I was getting the impression there was no adult baptism thats why I said it was a no go,
The reason I ask is its coming across in the posts, that if your baptised as a infant then your done. So it was sounding like a version of once saved. So I was seeking clarification. It may bring them into the family of faith but so does a non baptism baby dedication. And in the case of my brother, my family didnt attend church. There was a fight between faiths so mom said she left it to us to decide.

No, not once save always saved at all. Baptism is just the first step…. Like I said, there is confirmation and the first communion.

So I guess if my brother wanted to join the CC then hes ahead of me cause of the baptism even though he doesnt believe??

Actually I misspoke earlier. As long as you are baptized in as a Christian you would not be required to be baptized again if you joined the Catholic Church. The Church recognizes the baptism of most denominations that call themselves Christians. I know that they do not accept JW or Mormon. But most of at least the main stream Protestant sects are considered valid.

I only said I hadnt heard the tem and was wondering if it was a actual term. Coerce is fairly strong, Im not even sure it would deny the first, maybe confirm it. But you would have to ask that pastor where his heart was on the issue.

Using one’s friendship to get someone to do something that is against their faith is coercion. Church doctrine is that it denies the first.

As a note the use of heresies to a person inquiring about some confusion tends to be insulting, I envision a stake and fire, sorry but I do and it serves no purpose to use it, if you wouldnt mind.

I was not saying that the person asking the question is being heretical. And pointing out getting for a baptized Catholic to be rebaptised in a protestant church is a heresy. Heresy is a valid word… even today. The OP (original poster) needs to realize that going through with this wrong… its trivializing what baptism is.
The stake/fire thing has not happened for hundreds of years… protestants were just as guilty of it as anyone else. Catholics hardly have a monopoly on that.

Id have to look it up but one of the things of baptism is its done in public, not in a grandstanding way like you suppose.

I was reacting to your suggesting that getting baptized publicly to make a show of it was a good thing.

So there’s no reducing of faith. If it reduced faith then churches would be empty. I only asked what if a catholic wanted to get baptized even in their church would it be allowed, but it looks like it wouldn’t…

Nope, they have already been baptized.

To be clear I wasnt suggesting a rebaptism, I asked about it and even mentioned that I didn’t think it was even a correct term. And to use your confirmation and holy communion as a deterrent to myself, presumes alot on your part. perhaps its late, but I feel sorry for trying to ask in the first place.

No reason for being sorry for asking…. I was only trying to explain that Catholics have strong beliefs about baptism and our faith. I was using the example of your being asked to go through rituals that you do not believe in to explain how a catholic might feel about someone asking a Catholic to get rebaptised in their faith just because… well I don’t know just because what. I’ve spoken with protestants who feel that the Catholic baptism is not valid because they believe that Catholicism is not Christian, a cult, and on and on. They have actually expressed trying to pressure Catholics into rebaptisms in their churches to save the souls of Catholics.

 

[MariaG]

Kitty Chan,

Part of the reason that Catholic christians are strong about this is because of what we believe baptism is.

We do not believe it is just a public declaration of our faith. Even for those who believe it is just a declaration, but are baptised in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, we believe more happens.

A miracle of God happens. God removes our original sin and any personal sin we have.

To rebaptize someone is saying that GOD did not do it right the first time. It questions God’s power. Salvation is a free gift and we believe that gift is first given us through baptism. When one rebaptizes, it is like throwing the first gift back at God, telling Him the first gift was not good enough.

We certainly understand that some, through no fault of their own, do not have this understanding, but that does not change our responsibility to preach the truth and try to prevent people from offending God by their unbelief that God is capable of doing such a miraculous thing through baptism.

Your sister in Christ,
Maria

 

[Zooey]

Kitty (& others):
There are some churches (usually little independent ones, as far as I know), who “baptize” everybody who wants to join their church fellowship. I have a friends whose church they attend would not let them be considered a member unless **they **baptized her again. After years & years (a couple of decades at this point), this couple, who attend every Sunday, contribute financially & other wise, are not considered when there are any questions that go to the membership, because they have been baptized in the Methodist Church, not this one little independent Baptist church. (Even other Baptists that go there, have to be “baptized again” because that is their version of "joining the church).
Both these people continue to refuse so-called “re-baptism” because they will not, cannot, submit to what amounts to a slap in the face to the pastors who baptized them as children…(OT: I wouldn’t go to church there, but then, I have a history with Baptists…).
Some of these people will “re-baptize” you, & then turn around & tell you that “you are now a member of this church”…Which is not what you thought was going on!! Its, IMO, a sneaky trick to get people to join without knowing it, & then try to make you feel guilty if you won’t become part of their church.
Its just wrong. There is ONE baptism; if you have been baptized in the name of the Trinity, with the intention that baptism is a real joining with Christ’s kingdom, you are baptized. You can’t get it done over & over. Its a lifetime commitment. (I speak as Your Friendly Neighborhood Methodist).
My pastor gets really upset over this kind of thing, because it not only denies the meaning of baptism, but it is being used as a tool to proselytize Christians from one denomination to another. Its just wrong!! We are not supposed to be out stealing other churches’ members. We are supposed to be reaching out to those who do not love & serve the Lord Jesus.

I hope that helps a little to clarify, why some of us, Catholic & non-Catholic, feel strongly about this kind of thing.
God bless all here.

 

[lak611]

Kitty (& others):
There are some churches (usually little independent ones, as far as I know), who “baptize” everybody who wants to join their church fellowship. I have a friends whose church they attend would not let them be considered a member unless **they **baptized her again. After years & years (a couple of decades at this point), this couple, who attend every Sunday, contribute financially & other wise, are not considered when there are any questions that go to the membership, because they have been baptized in the Methodist Church, not this one little independent Baptist church. (Even other Baptists that go there, have to be “baptized again” because that is their version of "joining the church).
Both these people continue to refuse so-called “re-baptism” because they will not, cannot, submit to what amounts to a slap in the face to the pastors who baptized them as children…(OT: I wouldn’t go to church there, but then, I have a history with Baptists…).
Some of these people will “re-baptize” you, & then turn around & tell you that “you are now a member of this church”…Which is not what you thought was going on!! Its, IMO, a sneaky trick to get people to join without knowing it, & then try to make you feel guilty if you won’t become part of their church.
Its just wrong. There is ONE baptism; if you have been baptized in the name of the Trinity, with the intention that baptism is a real joining with Christ’s kingdom, you are baptized. You can’t get it done over & over. Its a lifetime commitment. (I speak as Your Friendly Neighborhood Methodist).
My pastor gets really upset over this kind of thing, because it not only denies the meaning of baptism, but it is being used as a tool to proselytize Christians from one denomination to another. Its just wrong!! We are not supposed to be out stealing other churches’ members. We are supposed to be reaching out to those who do not love & serve the Lord Jesus.

I hope that helps a little to clarify, why some of us, Catholic & non-Catholic, feel strongly about this kind of thing.
God bless all here.

This sort of thing happened to a Lutheran family member of mine. She decided to start going to a Baptist church because the Lutheran church she belonged to closed. The Baptist pastor told her that she would have to be re-baptized if she wanted to become a member of the church. She was horrified by that statement. She told him she already was baptized when she was a baby and re-baptism is contrary to what the Bible teaches. She found another Lutheran church that was farther away and has never set foot in a Baptist church again.

 

[MariaG]

I hope that helps a little to clarify, why some of us, Catholic & non-Catholic, feel strongly about this kind of thing.
God bless all here.

Thank you Zooey, and please forgive me for making it seem in my post as if I only thought Catholics feel about ONE baptism. I know you probably didn’t think that, but please accept my apologies for overlooking the non-Catholics who understand that baptism is more than just a public declaration.

Your sister in Christ,
Maria

 

[boppaid]

Thank you everyone. This is helpful. I cannot, though, find this passage…could someone give me the verse?

I will sprinkle clean water upon you to cleanse you from all your impurities, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. I will give you a new heart and place a new spirit within you, taking from your bodies your stony hearts and giving you natural hearts. I will put my spirit within you and make you live by my statutes, careful to observe my decrees.

 

[FCEGM]

Thank you everyone. This is helpful. I cannot, though, find this passage…could someone give me the verse?

Ezekiel 36:25

 

[MariaG]

Ezekiel 36:25

I was looking in Psalms. No wonder I couldn’t find it

 

[boppaid]

Thank you ! This thread is really helping me.

 

[mercygate]

Thank you everyone. This is helpful. I cannot, though, find this passage…could someone give me the verse?

Ezekiel 36:25-26.

 

[NotWorthy]

Thank you everyone. This is helpful. I cannot, though, find this passage…could someone give me the verse?

Ezekiel chapter 36:25-28
Yes, I know, others have posted it. But have you compared it with Peter in Acts 2:38?
*** Peter (said) to them, "Repent and be baptized*, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the holy Spirit.**

 

[believers]

Ezekiel chapter 36:25-28
Yes, I know, others have posted it. But have you compared it with Peter in Acts 2:38?
*** Peter (said) to them, "Repent*** and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the holy Spirit.

How does an infant repent?

Pro 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

 

[NotWorthy]

How does an infant repent?

Good question!

The infant is brought into the Covenant through his/her parents. Just as an infant in ancient Israel was brought into the Covenant through his parents. Just as is evidenced in the Church during the Apostolic Times in the First Century!

You see, the OT is but a shadow of the NT. The forms, or outlines, of the OT are found in the NT Theology. I see that shadow in Infant Baptisms, but I fail to see it in Altar Calls!

Maybe your wit and wisdom could help address the OP regarding Paul’s statement on households in this thread.

 

[believers]

Good question!

The infant is brought into the Covenant through his/her parents. Just as an infant in ancient Israel was brought into the Covenant through his parents.

You see, the OT is but a shadow of the NT. The forms, or outlines, of the OT are found in the NT Theology. I see that shadow in Infant Baptisms, but I fail to see it in Altar Calls!

No, the baby is not brought into the Covenant through his/her parents. The baby MUST eventually be made wise from learning the scriptures or the child will depart from the faith.

Pro 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

 

[believers]

Good question!

The infant is brought into the Covenant through his/her parents. Just as an infant in ancient Israel was brought into the Covenant through his parents. Just as is evidenced in the Church during the Apostolic Times in the First Century!

You see, the OT is but a shadow of the NT. The forms, or outlines, of the OT are found in the NT Theology. I see that shadow in Infant Baptisms, but I fail to see it in Altar Calls!

Maybe your wit and wisdom could help address the OP regarding Paul’s statement on households in this thread.

Why don’t you tell the OP that households refers to all adults. Babies, infants, & children go to Heaven. Jesus said… “such is the Kingdom of God.”

 

[NotWorthy]

No, the baby is not brought into the Covenant through his/her parents. The baby MUST eventually be made wise from learning the scriptures or the child will depart from the faith.

Pro 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

How can a child depart from that which he is not a part of… unless he is a part of it!!!

2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Yes, yes, we all agree that Faith is essential. Why do you present this as an argument?

Whether baptized as a child or an adult, we must continue with faith and works to “Remain in Me”.