Info on SDA

[Protestant101]

The Pope never called Ellen Gould White a whore, BUT Ellen White did say that the Catholic Church is a whore – and that is a lie.

Like I keep saying here; your Pope has said and so have others before him; that we are not a real Church; that unity with us, or anyone else is not ever going to be possible unless we totally bow down to him; and accept his so called authority and doctrine. And it gets worse as we look into it. I have also been personally called “antichrist” on this forum. You should probably get into the habit of putting things in proper perspective before you spread more lies. Ellen White called wrong wrong. She was harder on Adventists than she ever was on Catholics.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Once again:

We know Jesus to be the God of the Old Testament ( Jn 1:1-3). As such, He is the author and giver of the Law to the Jews, of which the Decalogue is a part. Therefore, as God, He has also given the Apostles the power and authority to “bind and loose” on earth and it will be so in Heaven ( Matt.16:19 ).

Jesus did not give His disciples the power to change anything that He has set. What Jesus has done in Matt.16:19 is the same thing He did in the great commission. He told His disciples to bind or loose the world to the kingdom of God through the use of the keys of the kingdom and those are HIS WORDS.

Matt.28
19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

He gave them no power to change His law. And indeed after His death nothing could be changed. The blood of Jesus confirms the covenant and after this there is no more changing.

Gal.3
15Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man’s covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.

Heb.9
16For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

So if the wording of the covenant were to be changed it would have to have been done by Jesus before His death, and this He did not do.

Then there is this

Ez.5
5Thus saith the Lord GOD; This is Jerusalem: I have set it in the midst of the nations and countries that are round about her.
6And she hath changed my judgments into wickedness more than the nations, and my statutes more than the countries that are round about her: for they have refused my judgments and my statutes, they have not walked in them.

The decalogue is a manifestation of the perfect character of God and will never change.

Malachi 3:6
For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Under this power and authority, through and from the Apostles, the primitive Church “loosed” the obligation of Saturday Sabbath worship and “bound” Sunday as “the Lord’s Day”, the Christian Sabbath. This is also so in Heaven, as per Jesus’ words. Christians are not under any obligation to keep Saturday as the Sabbath, but they are under obligation to keep Sunday as "the Lord’s Day ( the Christian Sabbath ).

First of all the Lord’s day is the Sabbath. Mar2:28Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.There is no evidence that the apostles kept any day but the Sabbath and as you have duly noted. “We know Jesus to be the God of the Old Testament ( Jn 1:1-3).”
Jesus is the creator God and it is He that gave us the law in the first place, at creation, so the law of the old testament is the Christian law.

Through misunderstanding and misinterpretation of the scriptures ( sola scriptura ), the SDA insist that the only Sabbath is Saturday and will reject the above explanation. Doing so is to deny and reject Jesus’ words which they do to their own detriment.

The only ones misunderstanding and misinterpreting is you and your church.
Gen2
3And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

God blessed no other day. Only the seventh day. And altho the day was made for us. Mark2:27And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: It belongs to God. Ex.20:10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God. Making this day and only this day a time when we can have a special relationship with our God. This day is a perpetual sign between us and God that we are His people.Ex.31

14Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
15Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
16Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
17It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

And this is who the children of Israel are.
Rom.9
6Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Galatians 3:28-29 “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you be Christ’s, then are you Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.”

Romans 2:28-29 “For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.”

Can there be any doubt from these passages that when Jeremiah talks about the children of Israel Jer.31:31Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: that he is talking about CHRISTIANS.

 

[Eklecktika]

Like I keep saying here; **your Pope has said and so have others before him; that we are not a real Church; that unity with us, or anyone else is not ever going to be possible unless we totally bow down to him; and accept his so called authority and doctrine. **And it gets worse as we look into it. I have also been personally called “antichrist” on this forum. You should probably get into the habit of putting things in proper perspective before you spread more lies. Ellen White called wrong wrong. She was harder on Adventists than she ever was on Catholics.

Quotes please-source, date, location, which pope, and context. Accusations are cheap; ‘Pictures or it didn’t happen’.

Spreading lies, indeed. Hypocrisy at it’s finest.

 

[Javl]

Jesus did not give His disciples the power to change anything that He has set. What Jesus has done in Matt.16:19 is the same thing He did in the great commission. He told His disciples to bind or loose the world to the kingdom of God through the use of the keys of the kingdom and those are HIS WORDS.

Matt.28
19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

He gave them no power to change His law. And indeed after His death nothing could be changed. The blood of Jesus confirms the covenant and after this there is no more changing.

Gal.3
15Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man’s covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.

Heb.9
16For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

So if the wording of the covenant were to be changed it would have to have been done by Jesus before His death, and this He did not do.

Then there is this

Ez.5
5Thus saith the Lord GOD; This is Jerusalem: I have set it in the midst of the nations and countries that are round about her.
6And she hath changed my judgments into wickedness more than the nations, and my statutes more than the countries that are round about her: for they have refused my judgments and my statutes, they have not walked in them.

The decalogue is a manifestation of the perfect character of God and will never change.

Malachi 3:6
For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

First of all the Lord’s day is the Sabbath. Mar2:28Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.There is no evidence that the apostles kept any day but the Sabbath and as you have duly noted. “We know Jesus to be the God of the Old Testament ( Jn 1:1-3).”
Jesus is the creator God and it is He that gave us the law in the first place, at creation, so the law of the old testament is the Christian law.

The only ones misunderstanding and misinterpreting is you and your church.
Gen2
3And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

God blessed no other day. Only the seventh day. And altho the day was made for us. Mark2:27And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: It belongs to God. Ex.20:10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God. Making this day and only this day a time when we can have a special relationship with our God. This day is a perpetual sign between us and God that we are His people.Ex.31

14Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
15Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
16Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
17It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

And this is who the children of Israel are.
Rom.9
6Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Galatians 3:28-29 “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you be Christ’s, then are you Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.”

Romans 2:28-29 “For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.”

Can there be any doubt from these passages that when Jeremiah talks about the children of Israel Jer.31:31Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: that he is talking about CHRISTIANS.

I repeat from my post:

Through misunderstanding and misinterpretation of the scriptures ( sola scriptura ), the SDA insist that the only Sabbath is Saturday and will reject the above explanation. Doing so is to deny and reject Jesus’ words which they do to their own detriment.

As per usual Richard, you know more than all the Catholic and Protestant scholars and theologians, plus the early Church fathers, put together who say and teach otherwise.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[greggy53]

From a quote by Richard Kastner:

“Jesus did not give His disciples the power to change anything that He has set. What Jesus has done in Matt.16:19 is the same thing He did in the great commission. He told His disciples to bind or loose the world to the kingdom of God through the use of the keys of the kingdom and those are HIS WORDS.”

Can you quote these words from the scriptures please?

My Bible say this in Matt 16, 19
Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God. [17] And Jesus answering, said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven. [18] And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. [19] And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.

In my Bible as you can plainly see in the above quote Jesus gives St Peter the authority to bind and loose whatsoever. He puts no restrictions on it. Obviously, your Bible must say something different.

 

[me_again]

…you spread more lies.

Here is a bold faced lie that was spread by your leader, Ellen Gould White. This is a cut-and-paste of what she wrote and the poor grammar is her own**:**

“I [Ellen White] saw all that ‘would not receive the mark of the Beast, and of his Image, in their foreheads or in their hands,’ could not buy or sell. I saw that the number (666) of the Image Beast was made up; and that it was the beast that changed the Sabbath, and the Image Beast had followed on after, and kept the Pope’s, and not God’s Sabbath. And all we were required to do, was to give up God’s Sabbath, and keep the Pope’s and then we should have the mark of the Beast, and of his Image.”

Source

 

[Richard_Kastner]

I repeat from my post:

Through misunderstanding and misinterpretation of the scriptures ( sola scriptura ), the SDA insist that the only Sabbath is Saturday and will reject the above explanation.

These are only your words. But these
Gen2
3And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
Ex.20:10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God.

Are from the word of God

Doing so is to deny and reject Jesus’ words which they do to their own detriment.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

From a quote by Richard Kastner:

“Jesus did not give His disciples the power to change anything that He has set. What Jesus has done in Matt.16:19 is the same thing He did in the great commission. He told His disciples to bind or loose the world to the kingdom of God through the use of the keys of the kingdom and those are HIS WORDS.”

Can you quote these words from the scriptures please?

My Bible say this in Matt 16, 19
Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God. [17] And Jesus answering, said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven. [18] And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. [19] And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.

In my Bible as you can plainly see in the above quote Jesus gives St Peter the authority to bind and loose whatsoever. He puts no restrictions on it. Obviously, your Bible must say something different.

This from Desire of Ages

"Jesus answered Peter, saying, “Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but My Father which is in heaven.”

The truth which Peter had confessed is the foundation of the believer’s faith. It is that which Christ Himself has declared to be eternal life. But the possession of this knowledge was no ground for self-glorification. Through no wisdom or goodness of his own had it been revealed to Peter. Never can humanity, of itself, attain to a knowledge of the divine. “It is as high as heaven; what canst thou do? deeper than hell; what canst thou know?” Job 11:8. Only the spirit of adoption can reveal to us the deep things of God, which “eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man.” “God hath revealed them unto us by His Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.” 1 Cor. 2:9, 10. “The secret of the Lord is with them that fear Him;” and the fact that Peter discerned the glory of Christ was an evidence that he had been “taught of God.” Ps. 25:14; John 6:45. Ah, indeed, “blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee.”

Jesus continued: "I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail

Page 413
against it." The word Peter signifies a stone,–a rolling stone. Peter was not the rock upon which the church was founded. The gates of hell did prevail against him when he denied his Lord with cursing and swearing. The church was built upon One against whom the gates of hell could not prevail.
Centuries before the Saviour’s advent Moses had pointed to the Rock of Israel’s salvation. The psalmist had sung of “the Rock of my strength.” Isaiah had written, “Thus saith the Lord God, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious cornerstone, a sure foundation.” Deut. 32:4; Ps. 62:7; Isa. 28:16. Peter himself, writing by inspiration, applies this prophecy to Jesus. He says, “If ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious: unto whom coming, a living stone, rejected indeed of men, but with God elect, precious, ye also, as living stones, are built up a spiritual house.” 1 Peter 2:3-5, R. V.

“Other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.” 1 Cor. 3:11. “Upon this rock,” said Jesus, “I will build My church.” In the presence of God, and all the heavenly intelligences, in the presence of the unseen army of hell, Christ founded His church upon the living Rock. That Rock is Himself,–His own body, for us broken and bruised. Against the church built upon this foundation, the gates of hell shall not prevail."

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Here is a bold faced lie that was spread by your leader, Ellen Gould White. This is a cut-and-paste of what she wrote and the poor grammar is her own**:**

“I [Ellen White] saw all that ‘would not receive the mark of the Beast, and of his Image, in their foreheads or in their hands,’ could not buy or sell. I saw that the number (666) of the Image Beast was made up; and that it was the beast that changed the Sabbath, and the Image Beast had followed on after, and kept the Pope’s, and not God’s Sabbath. And all we were required to do, was to give up God’s Sabbath, and keep the Pope’s and then we should have the mark of the Beast, and of his Image.”

Source

How do you know this is a lie? This is a prophecy that is still in the future.

In your source It gives Appendix D p.578 to name the source of the vision. Here is that page. whiteestate.org/books/egwhc/EGWHCaxA.html#sth24 Could you please show me were it states the source for your quote?

 

[greggy53]

This from Desire of Ages

"Jesus answered Peter, saying, “Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but My Father which is in heaven.”

The truth which Peter had confessed is the foundation of the believer’s faith. It is that which Christ Himself has declared to be eternal life. But the possession of this knowledge was no ground for self-glorification. Through no wisdom or goodness of his own had it been revealed to Peter. Never can humanity, of itself, attain to a knowledge of the divine. “It is as high as heaven; what canst thou do? deeper than hell; what canst thou know?” Job 11:8. Only the spirit of adoption can reveal to us the deep things of God, which “eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man.” “God hath revealed them unto us by His Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.” 1 Cor. 2:9, 10. “The secret of the Lord is with them that fear Him;” and the fact that Peter discerned the glory of Christ was an evidence that he had been “taught of God.” Ps. 25:14; John 6:45. Ah, indeed, “blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee.”

Jesus continued: "I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail

Page 413
against it." The word Peter signifies a stone,–a rolling stone. Peter was not the rock upon which the church was founded. The gates of hell did prevail against him when he denied his Lord with cursing and swearing. The church was built upon One against whom the gates of hell could not prevail.
Centuries before the Saviour’s advent Moses had pointed to the Rock of Israel’s salvation. The psalmist had sung of “the Rock of my strength.” Isaiah had written, “Thus saith the Lord God, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious cornerstone, a sure foundation.” Deut. 32:4; Ps. 62:7; Isa. 28:16. Peter himself, writing by inspiration, applies this prophecy to Jesus. He says, “If ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious: unto whom coming, a living stone, rejected indeed of men, but with God elect, precious, ye also, as living stones, are built up a spiritual house.” 1 Peter 2:3-5, R. V.

“Other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.” 1 Cor. 3:11. “Upon this rock,” said Jesus, “I will build My church.” In the presence of God, and all the heavenly intelligences, in the presence of the unseen army of hell, Christ founded His church upon the living Rock. That Rock is Himself,–His own body, for us broken and bruised. Against the church built upon this foundation, the gates of hell shall not prevail."

Desire of Ages What’s that?? That’s not scripture…Bible only pal… We’re playing by your own rules here…You said those were Jesus words…where are they in scripture??

 

[greggy53]

How do you know this is a lie? This is a prophecy that is still in the future.

In your source It gives Appendix D p.578 to name the source of the vision. Here is that page. whiteestate.org/books/egwhc/EGWHCaxA.html#sth24 Could you please show me were it states the source for your quote?

Because everything else she predicted was a lie too.

 

[RonTheNewJew]

Hi Richard,

The truth is;

1. the last item Paul mentions in Colossians 2:16 is the word “Sabbaton.” This always refers to the “weekly Shabbat that comes every seven days.” You know which Shabbat that is. This shows vs 16 to be a list of those things Christians are to observe. In vs 17 Paul says these things “are” shadows pointing to the substance Christ. The word “are” comes from the Greek esti which is in the present perfect tense. The things of vs16 still were in effect in Paul’s day. In the New Testament, the annual feasts are referred to by heorte, or heortazo, or by their given names such a Pascha Passover, or Pentecost (Shavuot/Feast of Weeks), or Skenopegia (Feast of Tabernacles). In the New Testament, the annual feasts are never called Sabbaton.

Not all “shadows” ceased at the cross. Only those shadows that were types ceased at the cross. The types that ceased at the cross are discussed in Hebrews 7-10. The types/antitypes are “matched pairs.” Only a “more glorious sacrifice” could end the animal sacrifices; only a “more excellent High Priest” could end the atoning role of the earthly priesthood; only the “true tabernacle not made with hands” could end the role of the earthly sanctuary as the place where atonement happened. Paul does not include Christ’s religious calendar (not the weekly Sabbath, nor the annual festivals) in his listing in Hebrews 7-10 of the types that have met their Antitype.

Those who say the cheirographon dogma of Colossians 2:14 is the Book of the Law (the Law of Moses) generally point to “proofs” such as: 1) the Book of the Law (the Law of Moses) was hand-written, and 2) Deuteronomy 31:26 says that the Book of the Law was to be “a witness against you.” Many things can be hand-written. Even the Ten Commandments were hand-written into the Book of the Law, as recorded in Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 5. Moses received from Christ those things that he wrote into the Book of the Law, and it contained both Moral Law items and Ceremonial Law items. Only the “types and shadows” - those things spelled out by Paul in Hebrews 7-10 - that pointed directly to Christ’s sacrifice and His high priestly ministry in the heavenly sanctuary ended at the cross. But Christ’s religious calendar did not end - not the weekly Sabbath, nor the annual festivals. Did the Day of Pentecost “end” at the cross? Read Acts 2. Did the Day of Atonement end at the cross? Think October 22, 1844. Did the Passover lose its meaning? "Then He [Jesus] said to them, 'With fervent desire I have desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer; for I say to you, I will no longer eat of it until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God. The “festival” Jesus instituted was a Passover Seder infused with Messianic meaning. We will not be fully out of the Egypt of sin until Christ returns. Did the Feast of Tabernacles end at the cross? “And it shall come to pass that the remnant of the goy [Gentile nations] which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, Yahweh the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.” Zechariah 14:16. This is the Jerusalem which needs not the light of the “luminaries” (vs 6-7), and it is the Jerusalem from which flow “living waters.” (vs 8).

Regarding Deuteronomy 31:26 - look up the Hebrew for “against you” and see what it means.

The items listed in Colossians 2:16 stand or fall together. This includes what we eat and drink (the dietary laws), the annual festivals as determined by the New Moons (lunar calendar) and the weekly seventh-day Shabbat. Man is not to be our judge in these things - only Christ is our judge, and “we ought to obey God rather than man.”

Shalom in Jesus,

Ron

 

[me_again]

…you spread more lies.
me again;6881261:

Here is a bold faced lie that was spread by your leader, Ellen Gould White. This is a cut-and-paste of what she wrote and the poor grammar is her own**:**

“I [Ellen White] saw all that ‘would not receive the mark of the Beast, and of his Image, in their foreheads or in their hands,’ could not buy or sell. I saw that the number (666) of the Image Beast was made up; and that it was the beast that changed the Sabbath, and the Image Beast had followed on after, and kept the Pope’s, and not God’s Sabbath. And all we were required to do, was to give up God’s Sabbath, and keep the Pope’s and then we should have the mark of the Beast, and of his Image.”

Source

In your source It gives Appendix D p.578 to name the source of the vision. Here is that page. whiteestate.org/books/egwhc/EGWHCaxA.html#sth24

Could you please show me were it states the source for your quote?

Ellen White’s vision was first printed April 7, 1847, but was later deleted. A lot of her kooky writings were later deleted, heavily edited or modified in an effort to give her lunacy credibility.

None of her other nutty prophecies came true, which proves she is a dead false prophet. Those who follow Ellen White (Adventism), Joseph Smith (Mormonism), Charles Taze Russell (JWs) and Mary Baker Eddy (Church of Christ, Scientist) are deceived.

 

[me_again]

Here is a bold faced lie that was spread by your leader, Ellen Gould White. This is a cut-and-paste of what she wrote and the poor grammar is her own**:**

“I [Ellen White] saw all that ‘would not receive the mark of the Beast, and of his Image, in their foreheads or in their hands,’ could not buy or sell. I saw that the number (666) of the Image Beast was made up; and that it was the beast that changed the Sabbath, and the Image Beast had followed on after, and kept the Pope’s, and not God’s Sabbath. And all we were required to do, was to give up God’s Sabbath, and keep the Pope’s and then we should have the mark of the Beast, and of his Image.”

Source
Richard Kastner;6881623:

How do you know this is a lie? This is a prophecy that is still in the future.

It’s a false prophecy from Ellen Gould White. Her prophecies have as much merit as those from Joseph Smith, Charles Taze Russell, Mary Baker Eddy and Jim Jones.

 

[RonTheNewJew]

Hi Richard,

Please read The Acts of the Apostles, p. 390. At the top of the page, it says that [Paul] was teaching “the new doctrine by which the Jews were released from the observace of the rites of the ceremonial law.” Was Paul not a Jew? Therefore he was also teaching, by extension, that he also considered himself released from the “observance of the rites of the ceremonial law.”

Then, at the bottom of the page, we read, “At Philippi Paul tarried to keep the Passover.”
Here we find Paul keeping the Passover away from Jerusalem, without offering an animal sacrifice, and with his Gentile converts - “The Philippians were the most loving and truehearted of the apostle’s converts, and during the eight days of the feast he enjoyed peaceful and happy communion with them.” (p. 391, The Acts of the Apostles.

Paul did not consider the keeping of a Messianic Passover to be part of the Ceremonial law, which pertained specifically to the offering of the animal sacrifices. But Christ’s religious calendar (the days with their themes that focus on the plan of salvation) attach to the Moral law (see Patriarchs and Prophets, pp. 310-311.

“But in the middle of the week [in the midst of the 7 prophetic years: 27-34 AD/CE] He [the Messiah] shall bring an end to sacrifices and oblations.” Daniel 9:27. The oblations were the grain, wine and oil offerings that were offered along with the sacrifices.

The question becomes: what did Paul, the other apostles, and the Early Christians practice? Both Polycarp (died 154 AD/CE) and Polycrates (wrote c. 193 AD/CD) [note these are Gentile, not Hebrew names] testified that it was the practice of John “who lay on the Lord’s breast,” and Philipp the Evangelist, and “the other apostles” to keep the Passover/Lord’s Supper at the end of Nisan 14, the same day the Jews kept Passover. But to the Chrisians, they understood the Messianic meaning. “For indeed Christ our Passover has been sacrificed for us, therefore let us keep the feast.” 1 Corinthians 5:7-8. Do not turn Paul against Paul. Do not turn Jesus Christ against Jesus Christ. Study the Gospels, especially Luke 22 and see what Christ included in His “new festival.” We find reference to multiple cups of grape juice, unleavened bread dipped in sauce, the broken unleavened bread (Afikomen) and the singing of the Passover Hallel, which was the last thing Christ and the disciples did before they left the upper room. John 13:36, 14:5, 14:8, and 14:22 record the four questions the disciples asked Jesus in the upper room. Why four? Why not three? Why not five? When did the Passover “end” and the Lord’s Supper “begin?” Jesus instituted the Lord’s Supper beginnig from the moment He sat down at the Passover table, and the Seder did not end until the last note of the Passover Hallel had been sung. The Lord’s Supper that Jesus instituted was a Passover Seder into which He infused Messianic meaning. The only item missing was the Passover lamb, but they had no need of a roasted lamb for Jesus Himself, the true Passover Lamb, sat with them at the Passover table.

It was not Jesus, nor Paul, who “took away” the annual feasts. As historical documents record, that “taking away” began more than 100 years after Jesus’ death, resurrection and ascension. The 'taking away" was not completed until 325 AD/CE, because faithful Christians resisted these shifts in practice, saying, “We ought to obey God rather than man.” See www.triumphpro.com/pas-early-church.htm especially pp. 2-3 for a look at the content of some of the early documents. Or go to p. 362 of Vol. 9 of your Bible Commentary series.

Even Christian speakers such as Mark Finley and Tony Moore are now saying that the cheirographon of Colossians 2:14 is the legal bond, the arrest warrant: the list of our sins, how we have broken God’s law. It was our sins that were nailed to the cross, as Jesus became our Sin Bearer, offered once for the sins of all.

Shalom in Yeshua,

Ron, The New Jew

 

[Farsight001]

How do you know this is a lie? This is a prophecy that is still in the future.

In your source It gives Appendix D p.578 to name the source of the vision. Here is that page. whiteestate.org/books/egwhc/EGWHCaxA.html#sth24 Could you please show me were it states the source for your quote?

Because she states that the Pope has changed the sabbath, which no pope has actually done. The Church still teaches that the sabbath is on Saturday, and it says as much in the catechism. That makes her prophecy automatically false.

 

[Javl]

These are only your words. But these
Gen2
3And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
Ex.20:10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God.

Are from the word of God

Rejecting your wresting of scripture is denying and rejecting Jesus words? Are you saying that you are Jesus?

I am a fool except for the word of God, and yes He does know more than “all the Catholic and Protestant scholars and theologians, plus the early Church fathers, put together”

I don’t expect you to believe anything that I say, but how can you ignore the WORD OF GOD. I would be interested, instead of making sweeping statements that I am wrong, if you would addess each of the passages that I have provided and explain how they say anything other than what I say they say? I won’t hold my breath however.

I do not ignore the word of God. I listen to it and obey him. It is you who reject it by listening to the rantings of a false “prophetess”, Ellen White. She has hoodwinked you and other SDA’s into accepting and believing everything she says as coming from God. How do you know what she says and what you believe are the truth and what God wants?

I’m not a theologian, but I have read and studied the teachings of the Apostles and early Church Fathers and the writings of Catholic and Protestant scholars and theologians. The only possible conclusion that can be arrived at is 1 ) that Jesus commisioned the Apostles to spread the Gospel, 2 ) that Jesus built His Church on Peter, with Jesus as the cornerstone but with Peter in charge, 3 ) that Jesus gave Peter and the Apostles His authority to bind and loose not only sins, but the Law, 4 ) that the Catholic Church ( of which the Roman Catholic Church is but a part ) is the Church that Jesus founded and that it has been true and faithful to Jesus commission. 5 ) That Christians are not bound by the Law of the Jews, 6 ) That Jesus gave those that believe in ( and accept Him ) a new Law and a new and everlasting covenant that supercedes the old covenant and Law.

I suggest that you put aside all you have learned from whatever Ellen white and the SDA Church have preached and, with a clear mind without bias or predjudice, read and study the teachings of the Apostles, early Church Fathers, and the writings of the Scholars and theologians of Christendom. I have done so in my search for the truth ( in all Protestant denominations, which I had found wanting in many areas ) with the result that I left agnosticism and became a Catholic. This is my final say.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Desire of Ages What’s that?? That’s not scripture…Bible only pal… We’re playing by your own rules here…You said those were Jesus words…where are they in scripture??

My Bible say this in Matt 16, 19
Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God. [17] And Jesus answering, said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven. [18] And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. [19] And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.

You say

In my Bible as you can plainly see in the above quote Jesus gives St Peter the authority to bind and loose whatsoever. He puts no restrictions on it. Obviously, your Bible must say something different.

Obviously I don’t agree that Jesus is giving Peter unlimited power, in the above vs. Why? Because this is your opinion. You say this is clear from the above vs. I don’t agree. Why? Because I believe YOUR OPINION of what is being said here is wrong. The purpose of the non-Catholic section of CAF is
Non-Catholic Religions (55 Viewing)
Comparing and contrasting beliefs
You BELIEVE that this is what these vs. are saying. My beliefs align with what Ellen White says in the quote from Desire of Ages. Only she says it much better than I could.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

I do not ignore the word of God. I listen to it and obey him. It is you who reject it by listening to the rantings of a false “prophetess”, Ellen White. She has hoodwinked you and other SDA’s into accepting and believing everything she says as coming from God. How do you know what she says and what you believe are the truth and what God wants?

I’m not a theologian, but I have read and studied the teachings of the Apostles and early Church Fathers and the writings of Catholic and Protestant scholars and theologians. The only possible conclusion that can be arrived at is 1 ) that Jesus commisioned the Apostles to spread the Gospel, 2 ) that Jesus built His Church on Peter, with Jesus as the cornerstone but with Peter in charge, 3 ) that Jesus gave Peter and the Apostles His authority to bind and loose not only sins, but the Law, 4 ) that the Catholic Church ( of which the Roman Catholic Church is but a part ) is the Church that Jesus founded and that it has been true and faithful to Jesus commission. 5 ) That Christians are not bound by the Law of the Jews, 6 ) That Jesus gave those that believe in ( and accept Him ) a new Law and a new and everlasting covenant that supercedes the old covenant and Law.

I suggest that you put aside all you have learned from whatever Ellen white and the SDA Church have preached and, with a clear mind without bias or predjudice, read and study the teachings of the Apostles, early Church Fathers, and the writings of the Scholars and theologians of Christendom. I have done so in my search for the truth ( in all Protestant denominations, which I had found wanting in many areas ) with the result that I left agnosticism and became a Catholic.

This is my final say.

I hope so. I’m tired of putting the WORD OF GOD in front of you only to have it ignored and disregarded. I guess you decided not to give your take on the vs. I provided. Good thing I didn’t hold my breath.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Hi Richard,

Please read The Acts of the Apostles, p. 390. At the top of the page, it says that [Paul] was teaching “the new doctrine by which the Jews were released from the observace of the rites of the ceremonial law.” Was Paul not a Jew? Therefore he was also teaching, by extension, that he also considered himself released from the “observance of the rites of the ceremonial law.”

Then, at the bottom of the page, we read, “At Philippi Paul tarried to keep the Passover.”
Here we find Paul keeping the Passover away from Jerusalem, without offering an animal sacrifice, and with his Gentile converts - “The Philippians were the most loving and truehearted of the apostle’s converts, and during the eight days of the feast he enjoyed peaceful and happy communion with them.” (p. 391, The Acts of the Apostles.

Paul did not consider the keeping of a Messianic Passover to be part of the Ceremonial law, which pertained specifically to the offering of the animal sacrifices. But Christ’s religious calendar (the days with their themes that focus on the plan of salvation) attach to the Moral law (see Patriarchs and Prophets, pp. 310-311.

“But in the middle of the week [in the midst of the 7 prophetic years: 27-34 AD/CE] He [the Messiah] shall bring an end to sacrifices and oblations.” Daniel 9:27. The oblations were the grain, wine and oil offerings that were offered along with the sacrifices.

The question becomes: what did Paul, the other apostles, and the Early Christians practice? Both Polycarp (died 154 AD/CE) and Polycrates (wrote c. 193 AD/CD) [note these are Gentile, not Hebrew names] testified that it was the practice of John “who lay on the Lord’s breast,” and Philipp the Evangelist, and “the other apostles” to keep the Passover/Lord’s Supper at the end of Nisan 14, the same day the Jews kept Passover. But to the Chrisians, they understood the Messianic meaning. “For indeed Christ our Passover has been sacrificed for us, therefore let us keep the feast.” 1 Corinthians 5:7-8. Do not turn Paul against Paul. Do not turn Jesus Christ against Jesus Christ. Study the Gospels, especially Luke 22 and see what Christ included in His “new festival.” We find reference to multiple cups of grape juice, unleavened bread dipped in sauce, the broken unleavened bread (Afikomen) and the singing of the Passover Hallel, which was the last thing Christ and the disciples did before they left the upper room. John 13:36, 14:5, 14:8, and 14:22 record the four questions the disciples asked Jesus in the upper room. Why four? Why not three? Why not five? When did the Passover “end” and the Lord’s Supper “begin?” Jesus instituted the Lord’s Supper beginnig from the moment He sat down at the Passover table, and the Seder did not end until the last note of the Passover Hallel had been sung. The Lord’s Supper that Jesus instituted was a Passover Seder into which He infused Messianic meaning. The only item missing was the Passover lamb, but they had no need of a roasted lamb for Jesus Himself, the true Passover Lamb, sat with them at the Passover table.

It was not Jesus, nor Paul, who “took away” the annual feasts. As historical documents record, that “taking away” began more than 100 years after Jesus’ death, resurrection and ascension. The 'taking away" was not completed until 325 AD/CE, because faithful Christians resisted these shifts in practice, saying, “We ought to obey God rather than man.” See www.triumphpro.com/pas-early-church.htm especially pp. 2-3 for a look at the content of some of the early documents. Or go to p. 362 of Vol. 9 of your Bible Commentary series.

Even Christian speakers such as Mark Finley and Tony Moore are now saying that the cheirographon of Colossians 2:14 is the legal bond, the arrest warrant: the list of our sins, how we have broken God’s law. It was our sins that were nailed to the cross, as Jesus became our Sin Bearer, offered once for the sins of all.

Shalom in Yeshua,

Ron, The New Jew

You have given me much to prayerfully consider. Perhaps the SDA church needs to revamp it’s thinking on the annual feasts. Thank you.