Info on SDA

[me_again]

Good thing I didn’t hold my breath.

You may hold your breath for as long as you like. It’s harmless. If you have strong willpower, you can even pass out – but it won’t kill you.

 

[Javl]

I hope so. I’m tired of putting the WORD OF GOD in front of you only to have it ignored and disregarded. I guess you decided not to give your take on the vs. I provided. Good thing I didn’t hold my breath.

I never ignore or disregard the word of God. You may think so only because*** I do not give you the answer that you want***. I keep repeating the truth over and over but you ignore and reject it. I feel sorry for you that** you consistently ignore and reject the word of Jesus**, who is God, or don’t you believe that He is? Some day you may wake up and realize that*** Ellen White and the SDA church has led you astray with their error and heresy***, as many ex-SDA’s have done. Have you ever stopped to think that YOU may be wrong? Or do you reject that also as** you reject the truth**?

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Richard_Kastner]

I never ignore or disregard the word of God. You may think so only because*** I do not give you the answer that you want***.

You give me no answers at all.

I keep repeating the truth over and over but you ignore and reject it.

I haven’t seen any truth from you. Only some worn out heresies that Your church uses to try and usurp God’s authority.

I feel sorry for you that** you consistently ignore and reject the word of Jesus**, who is God, or don’t you believe that He is? Some day you may wake up and realize that*** Ellen White and the SDA church has led you astray with their error and heresy***, as many ex-SDA’s have done. Have you ever stopped to think that YOU may be wrong? Or do you reject that also as** you reject the truth**?

You keep bringing up Ellen White Javl. Why is that? I have never even mentioned her in any of my posts to you. What I have mentioned is many, many, verses from THE WORD OF GOD which you steadfastly refuse to address. Please explain this to me Javl. Again I won’t hold my breath.

I think it was you who posted Jn.1:1-3 to show that it was Jesus that was the creator. Well at creation JESUS gave us the Sabbath as a memorial of His creative power. Gen.2:1-3 Yet you ignore and disregard the WORD OF GOD in following the words of men. Wake up Javl Jesus is comming back and when He does He will be comming back for those who keep His commandments and have faith in Him not men.

 

[Protestant101]

Here is a bold faced lie that was spread by your leader, Ellen Gould White. This is a cut-and-paste of what she wrote and the poor grammar is her own**:**
“I [Ellen White] saw all that ‘would not receive the mark of the Beast, and of his Image, in their foreheads or in their hands,’ could not buy or sell. I saw that the number (666) of the Image Beast was made up; and that it was the beast that changed the Sabbath, and the Image Beast had followed on after, and kept the Pope’s, and not God’s Sabbath. And all we were required to do, was to give up God’s Sabbath, and keep the Pope’s and then we should have the mark of the Beast, and of his Image.”
Source

Hmmm; this is a prediction about something in the future. How would you prove it to be a lie if it has not yet happened; and in light of Catholic leadership’s efforts in various countries to “promote” laws that MANDATE Sunday-keeping?

 

[Javl]

You give me no answers at all.

I haven’t seen any truth from you. Only some worn out heresies that Your church uses to try and usurp God’s authority.

You keep bringing up Ellen White Javl. Why is that? I have never even mentioned her in any of my posts to you. What I have mentioned is many, many, verses from THE WORD OF GOD which you steadfastly refuse to address. Please explain this to me Javl. Again I won’t hold my breath.

I think it was you who posted Jn.1:1-3 to show that it was Jesus that was the creator. Well at creation JESUS gave us the Sabbath as a memorial of His creative power. Gen.2:1-3 Yet you ignore and disregard the WORD OF GOD in following the words of men. Wake up Javl Jesus is comming back and when He does He will be comming back for those who keep His commandments and have faith in Him not men.

Thank you Richard! You have just proven my point. You ignore and reject everything I have said and come up with really lame excuses to cover yourself. Bravo!. I just hope others have read your posts and see what I mean. As for Ellen White, whether you have mentioned her or not makes no difference since her brand of “theology” is so evident in your responses. I, and other non-SDA are wide awake. It is you who have fallen into the trap of following the teachings of men by refusing to listen to, and rejecting, the truth.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Farsight001]

Hmmm; this is a prediction about something in the future. How would you prove it to be a lie if it has not yet happened; and in light of Catholic leadership’s efforts in various countries to “promote” laws that MANDATE Sunday-keeping?

Like I already said, the Catholic Church teaches that the sabbath is still on Saturday. It is explained in the catechism. Furthermore, mass attendance is available on Saturday in Catholic churches all over the world, so you can in no way say that Sunday is mandated. I go on Saturdays because I’m sleeping during the Sunday services in my area.

Hence, it is not Ellen White’s prediction about the future that makes her prophecy false, but her declaration that the pope has changed (past tense) the sabbath.

 

[me_again]

…you spread more lies.
me again;6881261:

Here is a bold faced lie that was spread by your leader, Ellen Gould White. This is a cut-and-paste of what she wrote and the poor grammar is her own**:**

“I [Ellen White] saw all that ‘would not receive the mark of the Beast, and of his Image, in their foreheads or in their hands,’ could not buy or sell. I saw that the number (666) of the Image Beast was made up; and that it was the beast that changed the Sabbath, and the Image Beast had followed on after, and kept the Pope’s, and not God’s Sabbath. And all we were required to do, was to give up God’s Sabbath, and keep the Pope’s and then we should have the mark of the Beast, and of his Image.”

Source

Hmmm; this is a prediction about something in the future. How would you prove it to be a lie if it has not yet happened?

None of Ellen White’s other false prophecies came to pass.

Other examples have been provided in this thread, along with sources for corroboration.

Another egregious false prophecy is when Ellen White promised some of her followers that they would not see death because she said they would be translated. However, they’re all dead now, to include Ellen White.

 

[CatholicLover]

Like I already said, the Catholic Church teaches that the sabbath is still on Saturday. It is explained in the catechism. Furthermore, mass attendance is available on Saturday in Catholic churches all over the world, so you can in no way say that Sunday is mandated. I go on Saturdays because I’m sleeping during the Sunday services in my area.

This may be true but the Catholic Church also in effect states that the Sabbath is no longer relevant to Christians and does not teach that we should keep the Sabbath Holy. That is in direct conflict with God’s word.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Like I already said, the Catholic Church teaches that the sabbath is still on Saturday. It is explained in the catechism. Furthermore, mass attendance is available on Saturday in Catholic churches all over the world, so you can in no way say that Sunday is mandated. I go on Saturdays because I’m sleeping during the Sunday services in my area.

Hence, it is not Ellen White’s prediction about the future that makes her prophecy false, but her declaration that the pope has changed (past tense) the sabbath.

The CC teaches that the sanctity of the day has been changed from Saturday to Sunday and this under the sole authority of the CC. The Catholic is bound to go to mass on Sunday under penalty of mortal sin. If this isn’t trying to change the day, what is? You say the church allows you to go to church on Saturday. That’s fine but that is merely keeping the Sunday on Saturday afternoon. See, the Sabbath is about more than going to church. Gen.2:1-3 says 1Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

2And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

3And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

See, Far along with all the things of the physical universe God was also creating the days of the week. “And the evening and the morning were the first day.” …second day etc. etc.Then we get to Gen.2:3And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. God did not bless the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, or 6th. GOD BLESSED THE SEVENTH DAY. God doesn’t bless things for Himself. Man was created on the 6th day, so one of the first things that he did was keep the Sabbath. See keeping the Sabbath means much more than going to church or taking a nap. It means on this day and only on this day, we can have a very special fellowship with our God. You can’t get this fellowship by keeping Sunday holy, even if you keep it on Saturday afternoon.

 

[RonTheNewJew]

This from Desire of Ages

"Jesus answered Peter, saying, “Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but My Father which is in heaven.”

The truth which Peter had confessed is the foundation of the believer’s faith. It is that which Christ Himself has declared to be eternal life. But the possession of this knowledge was no ground for self-glorification. Through no wisdom or goodness of his own had it been revealed to Peter. Never can humanity, of itself, attain to a knowledge of the divine. “It is as high as heaven; what canst thou do? deeper than hell; what canst thou know?” Job 11:8. Only the spirit of adoption can reveal to us the deep things of God, which “eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man.” “God hath revealed them unto us by His Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.” 1 Cor. 2:9, 10. “The secret of the Lord is with them that fear Him;” and the fact that Peter discerned the glory of Christ was an evidence that he had been “taught of God.” Ps. 25:14; John 6:45. Ah, indeed, “blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee.”

Jesus continued: "I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail

Page 413
against it." The word Peter signifies a stone,–a rolling stone. Peter was not the rock upon which the church was founded. The gates of hell did prevail against him when he denied his Lord with cursing and swearing. The church was built upon One against whom the gates of hell could not prevail.
Centuries before the Saviour’s advent Moses had pointed to the Rock of Israel’s salvation. The psalmist had sung of “the Rock of my strength.” Isaiah had written, “Thus saith the Lord God, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious cornerstone, a sure foundation.” Deut. 32:4; Ps. 62:7; Isa. 28:16. Peter himself, writing by inspiration, applies this prophecy to Jesus. He says, “If ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious: unto whom coming, a living stone, rejected indeed of men, but with God elect, precious, ye also, as living stones, are built up a spiritual house.” 1 Peter 2:3-5, R. V.

“Other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.” 1 Cor. 3:11. “Upon this rock,” said Jesus, “I will build My church.” In the presence of God, and all the heavenly intelligences, in the presence of the unseen army of hell, Christ founded His church upon the living Rock. That Rock is Himself,–His own body, for us broken and bruised. Against the church built upon this foundation, the gates of hell shall not prevail."

I would have to agree with Richard’s characterization that the Rock is Yeshua (Jesus) and the knowledge which Jesus had imparted to Peter and the other disciples. That same knowledge Peter and the other disciples were to spread to the rest of mankind. He had brought back to our spiritual forefathers what they had long forgotten: The spirit of the Law (the Law is a transcript of God’s unchanging character. Thus, through the power of the Holy Spirit of God we can have faith that our transgressions of His Law are forgiven, and through that same Holy Spirit, we can increasingly do the works of the Law, but without boasting. To boast is to break that same Law.

When we remember His suffering that we, through faith, might see the love of Jesus in the right-doing of His Law, how could we boast? Thus, by seeing the love of Jesus in His Law, and obeying that same Law with the statutes and judgments it contains to help us keep close to our hearts the Ten Commandments, He sanctifies us. This is why the Passover Seder celebration, with Christ at it’ center (both looking back to the exodus, looking at Jesus’ suffering on the cross, and forward to a soon coming final struggle, is such a deeply spiritual experience. The four Gospels, especially Luke, describe the Lord’s last Seder celelbration, and looks forward to the one we will celebrate with Yeshua ha-Maschiach. (Jesus, the Messiah)

 

[greggy53]

Hmmm; this is a prediction about something in the future. How would you prove it to be a lie if it has not yet happened; and in light of Catholic leadership’s efforts in various countries to “promote” laws that MANDATE Sunday-keeping?

All right, lets see the evidence of the Church trying to promote such laws…

 

[Farsight001]

This may be true but the Catholic Church also in effect states that the Sabbath is no longer relevant to Christians and does not teach that we should keep the Sabbath Holy. That is in direct conflict with God’s word.

And where is that taught? In what paragraph in the catechism is that claim contained? Or is it just a claim without merit or support?

 

[Farsight001]

The CC teaches that the sanctity of the day has been changed from Saturday to Sunday and this under the sole authority of the CC.

And where does the CC teach this?

The Catholic is bound to go to mass on Sunday under penalty of mortal sin.

Which is why it’s completely ok for me to go on Saturday?

If this isn’t trying to change the day, what is?

I would go with an actual declaration that the day has changed, which doesn’t exist.

See, Far along with all the things of the physical universe God was also creating the days of the week. “And the evening and the morning were the first day.” …second day etc. etc.Then we get to Gen.2:3And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. God did not bless the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, or 6th. GOD BLESSED THE SEVENTH DAY.

And if that first day of the universe were a Wednesday, then the sabbath would be a Tuesday. What makes you say you know the Sabbath is saturday, especially with all of the calender changes we have had over the years.

God doesn’t bless things for Himself. Man was created on the 6th day

In one version of the story of creation, but not in both.

so one of the first things that he did was keep the Sabbath.

Yes. Keep the sabbath holy. Rest on the sabbath. We do that if we can. Now where does God tell us that the sabbath must be our day of worship - the day we go to church?

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Thank you Richard! You have just proven my point. You ignore and reject everything I have said and come up with really lame excuses to cover yourself. Bravo!. I just hope others have read your posts and see what I mean. As for Ellen White, whether you have mentioned her or not makes no difference since her brand of “theology” is so evident in your responses. I, and other non-SDA are wide awake. It is you who have fallen into the trap of following the teachings of men by refusing to listen to, and rejecting, the truth.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

Here’s another tidbit Javl Concerning Matt.16:18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Matt. uses the Greek word petros for Peter meaning small rock or rolling stone. In the new testament this is the only word used to refer to Peter the apostle. The word for rock in the v. is petra which means

1. a rock, cliff or ledge
   a) a projecting rock, crag, rocky ground
   b) a rock, a large stone
   c) metaph. a man like a rock, by reason of his firmness and strength of soul

This word is never used to refer to Peter the apostle and except for the instances when it is used to refer to an actual rock, it refers to Jesus.

Matt.7: 24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

Rom.9:33As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

1Cor.10:4And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

1Peter2:5Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
6Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
7Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

Taking this scriptural evidence into account the rock of Matt. 16:18 is absolutely talking about Jesus not Peter.

What do you think about this Javl or are you going to dismiss this as “really lame excuses to cover yourself”. Again since you haven’t answered me yet I won’t hold my breath.

 

[greggy53]

Here’s another tidbit Javl Concerning Matt.16:18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Matt. uses the Greek word petros for Peter meaning small rock or rolling stone. In the new testament this is the only word used to refer to Peter the apostle. The word for rock in the v. is petra which means

1. a rock, cliff or ledge
   a) a projecting rock, crag, rocky ground
   b) a rock, a large stone
   c) metaph. a man like a rock, by reason of his firmness and strength of soul
   This word is never used to refer to Peter the apostle and except for the instances when it is used to refer to an actual rock, it refers to Jesus.

Sorry my friend there are two major problems with your analogy.

1. Matthew wrote in Greek and in Greek the word rock petra is feminine. So, Matthew would not have used the feminine word to call a man. He used the masculine instead petros.
2. The Jews of Jesus time did not speak Greek they spoke Aramaic and from what I have read there is only one word in Aramaic for rock, rock.

"And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. "

It is futile to make the claim that here Jesus is referring to himself when it is obvious that he is talking to and about Simon Peter. Many Protestants try to muddy the waters in order to justify their rebellion against God’s appointed Leaders and His Church; but no matter which way you shake it. Peter is given the keys to the kingdom of Heaven. End of story.

 

[CatholicLover]

And where is that taught? In what paragraph in the catechism is that claim contained? Or is it just a claim without merit or support?

Am I wrong? Does the Catholic Church teach that you should keep the 7th day Sabbath Holy? Does it teach that it is still relevant and Catholics should rest on that day?

 

[CatholicLover]

And where is that taught? In what paragraph in the catechism is that claim contained? Or is it just a claim without merit or support?

This from the Council of Laodicea:

"CANON XXIX.

CHRISTIANS must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honouring the Lord’s Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians. But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ."

 

[Javl]

Here’s another tidbit Javl Concerning Matt.16:18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Matt. uses the Greek word petros for Peter meaning small rock or rolling stone. In the new testament this is the only word used to refer to Peter the apostle. The word for rock in the v. is petra which means

1. a rock, cliff or ledge
   a) a projecting rock, crag, rocky ground
   b) a rock, a large stone
   c) metaph. a man like a rock, by reason of his firmness and strength of soul

This word is never used to refer to Peter the apostle and except for the instances when it is used to refer to an actual rock, it refers to Jesus.

Matt.7: 24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

Rom.9:33As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

1Cor.10:4And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

1Peter2:5Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
6Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
7Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

Taking this scriptural evidence into account the rock of Matt. 16:18 is absolutely talking about Jesus not Peter.

What do you think about this Javl or are you going to dismiss this as “really lame excuses to cover yourself”. Again since you haven’t answered me yet I won’t hold my breath.

I guess according to you Jesus spoke Greek to Peter, instead of Aramaic, and changed his name to petra instead of cephas. More proof that you distort the scriptures and put your own spin on it. Keep it up…you’re doing a great job.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Sorry my friend there are two major problems with your analogy.

1. Matthew wrote in Greek and in Greek the word rock petra is feminine. So, Matthew would not have used the feminine word to call a man. He used the masculine instead petros.

Really! Are you saying that all the translations we have are wrong?

The Greek word for Peter is petros. This is irrefutable it is used not only here in Matt.16:18but in every instance where you find the word Peter. It is the only word used for the name Peter.

It means
Peter = “a rock or a stone”

1. one of the twelve disciples of Jesus
   It has a uniqueness in that it MEANS Peter.

1. The Jews of Jesus time did not speak Greek they spoke Aramaic and from what I have read there is only one word in Aramaic for rock, rock.

It doesn’t matter what the Jews spoke in Jesus time. The fact is that the translations we have are from Greek not Aramaic. And the petra in Matt. 16:18 is never used to designate Peter. It is used to designate Jesus.

 

[RonTheNewJew]

Sorry my friend there are two major problems with your analogy.

1. Matthew wrote in Greek and in Greek the word rock petra is feminine. So, Matthew would not have used the feminine word to call a man. He used the masculine instead petros.
2. The Jews of Jesus time did not speak Greek they spoke Aramaic and from what I have read there is only one word in Aramaic for rock, rock.

"And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. "

It is futile to make the claim that here Jesus is referring to himself when it is obvious that he is talking to and about Simon Peter. Many Protestants try to muddy the waters in order to justify their rebellion against God’s appointed Leaders and His Church; but no matter which way you shake it. Peter is given the keys to the kingdom of Heaven. End of story.

Jesus, while talking to Peter, because He knew of Peter’s boastfulness on the outside, but weakness on the inside, also knew what Peter would do during Yeshua’s crucifiction when confronted by the question, “were you not also with this man, Jesus?” Peter was anything but the strong man some here claim he was. Put another way, Peter was a bit of a coward. Not that I would not have done likewise. I would hope not. Pray not. But…

The real truth is that Peter wanted no part of what he and the other disciples had been told would happen to Jesus in Jerusalem. He even told Jesus that he should not suffer and die. Jesus was so upset with Peter for saying this that He said to Peter, “get thee away from me, thou satan.” I doubt that Jesus would have turned over any right to change any aspect of what many on this forum call "the Law. They then try to call it, “the Jewish Law.”

It was only called the Law of Moses as a means of not having to say, every time the Law was referred to, “The Law that God the Son gave to Moses on Mount Sinai.” The prophet, Malachi called it “the Law of Moses,” for example. Then,when telling about the end of time, Malachi said, “Behold, I will send Elijah the prophet, before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord. Be sure to remember the Law of Moses, which I commanded him in Horeb (the actual location, in today’s Saudi Arabia, of Mount Sinai), with the statutes and judgments.”

The statutes and judgments did not include the animal sacrifices and the Temple priesthood and ordinances that told the “how’s” of the animal sacrificial services. They were temporary. The statutes and judgments were permanent because they are the moral Law that explains how the Ten Commandments, and the love God supremely and your fellow human beings impartially.

Shalom