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BettyBoop416
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As anyone…well, anyone else…could see, it was not an argument. It was an expression of exasperationYeah, good argument. Really got me there…
As anyone…well, anyone else…could see, it was not an argument. It was an expression of exasperationYeah, good argument. Really got me there…
That would be nice of you.I think when they come again in June we will go to an ELCA service then Catholic Mass.
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For me it is akin to agreeing with people who are inherently wrong. If someone says 2 + 2 = 5 and they firmly believe it does not make it right. You know it’s 4, I know it’s 4, everyone else knows it’s 4. I’m going to do what I inherently know is right. If they get offended, that’s their problem. It’s not my responsibility to be tolerant of their wrongness. It is my responsibility, however, to correct them.hahahaha
In all seriousness, I always find it mind-boggling that so many people are so dismissive and disrespectful of other faiths. I would never dream of say, going into a mosque and insisting that I keep my shoes on. The thought of doing so makes me cringe with embarrassment. It’s just mind-blowing to me that so many are so disrespectful to the faith of others.
I can’t even begin to describe what a poor testament this is to the Catholic faith to someone considering converting. It smacks of unbelievable arrogance and is completely lacking in humility before God. It is one thing to gently explain “we believe X because of y and z” and quite another to tell someone “your faith is a knock of brand of the real thing, and you are all wrong.” Probably the main “knock off” is the Anglican Church, which started out of very selfish motives, but many denominations were the result of groups of people genuinely wanting to please God, and not able to reconcile parts of the Catholic (or other faiths) with what they felt God wanted, based on the Bible. Their motive was a desire for authentic Christianity.For me it is akin to agreeing with people who are inherently wrong. If someone says 2 + 2 = 5 and they firmly believe it does not make it right. You know it’s 4, I know it’s 4, everyone else knows it’s 4. I’m going to do what I inherently know is right. If they get offended, that’s their problem. It’s not my responsibility to be tolerant of their wrongness. It is my responsibility, however, to correct them.
Like a previous poster said, Catholicism is the fullness of Christian truth. It is not a knock-off brand like other faiths. Sure, other faiths have some granules of truth in them, but if they aren’t in line with Rome, they are flat-out wrong. They certainly aren’t 100% correct.
It’s a little rough around the edges, but that’s my 2 cents.
For months prior to RCIA I sat in my pew while most everyone else went up to receive the Eucharist. Not once did I feel as if anyone was staring at me in judgment. I think anyone in that church who saw me sitting/kneeling simply understood I was unable to receive. There was never any embarrassment.That would be nice of you.
Quick story: My parents are Roman Catholic, and we are not (although I was raised Roman Catholic). Knowing this, they asked us to attend church with them while we were home for the holidays, to “see friends who have been asking about you. We would really like your company!” So, we went to support them, but when the time came for us to walk up that aisle, I told my fiance we couldn’t go up. In hindsight I should have explained this prior, but I forgot. Well he was embarrassed, and with good reason. When you’re the only people in the church to not go up, people stare, especially in a town where everyone knows everyone. It’s quite uncomfortable, especially for my fiance who didn’t really understand why, and it’s easy to feel “left out.” My fiance said he would have rather gone up there than face the “judgmental staring” again.
So, speaking from a different point of view, did you explain to your in-laws what exactly accepting the Eucharist means? It may help them understand where you’re coming from.
Also, have you considered how left out of the family they might feel? Church for my family is a family experience as well as a religious one. They enjoy the time spent together and worshiping, and appreciate that we go despite our non-belief. Perhaps if you approach the subject on terms of supporting your family and the beliefs you have + explaining the Eucharist, they may be more understanding of where you’re coming from.
We’ve already established that OP sees the In-laws only a few times a year, so most of their relationship isn’t done in person. It’s kind of hard to show someone how you live your faith if they aren’t there to witness it.I can’t even begin to describe what a poor testament this is to the Catholic faith to someone considering converting.
“It’s not my responsibility to be tolerant of their wrongness”. Your responsibility is to love them, and honor thy father and mother. You are also not responsible to be the Eucharist police for your in-laws.(if you were in the position of the OP) Creating a huge fuss about their “wrongness”, because their faith is “just a knock off brand” it not a loving thing to do.
Show it, don’t just say it, and perhaps they will understand, and it will not be a source of tension.
This mindset seems to confine the meaning of the Eucharist as a reward for being Catholic, or a privilege that one earns by making it through RCIA. It is not helping your argument.We’ve already established that OP sees the In-laws only a few times a year, so most of their relationship isn’t done in person. It’s kind of hard to show someone how you live your faith if they aren’t there to witness it.
A huge part of my conversion experience has been watching my husband (Catholic convert) and our Catholic friends and how they behave in their daily lives. I might not see my Catholic friends as much as I’d like, but they are the most consistent people I know. Honestly, my husband is not practicing, but he’d be livid if I took communion before I was confirmed in the church. He knows what it was like to have to wait until Easter Vigil to be confirmed in the church because he had to wait too.
Had I not married a Catholic or had strong Catholic friends, I really doubt that I’d be looking into conversion. The area I grew up in was very Protestant and being Catholic was ‘weird’. It wasn’t bad, but it was what other people did. I had no relationship to the RCC until I went to college and met people who were Catholic. I knew what being Catholic was all about (or at least what I thought it was about), but I never spent significant time around Catholics.
Obviously, OP’s husband knew what he was getting into when he married her.
I’m wondering if husband’s parents really understood what husband committed to when he married OP. There’s saying that you’ll raise the kids Catholic, then there’s actually doing it.
I don’t know how much more OP and her family can do to ‘show’ that they are Catholics.
Yes, treat people compassionately and lovingly, but even Jesus called people out when they were doing the wrong thing. Yes, honor your parents, but you also don’t have to be a doormat to your parents either.
Everyone on this forum has different experiences and can only relate those in the best way that we know how. People have to pick their battles. Other people wouldn’t pick a fight on this issue. I would because God used Communion to show me that if I wanted to take part in Communion in the RCC, then I would have to significantly change my attitude towards “the cracker” and the “grape juice”. (yes, I know. It is the Body and the Blood - it just took me a long time to accept it!) The Church isn’t going to change for me. I had to change for the Church. That’s why it would be worth having the fight for me. I’ve already fought God over it and lost. But, again, others would choose not to fight the fight. That’s just reality.
I end up feeling very conflicted over this.
I get mad because I’m trying to be patient and wait my turn just like every other convert. I see Communion as a privilege, not a right. There are specific reasons why people shouldn’t take it, even if you are a Catholic. I am trying to respect the rule/the process. It takes a lot of patience not to blow up every time I hear about it happening.
I am accepting because I know that, despite my opinion on the matter, it’s currently happening and there’s really nothing I can do to stop it. It’s disheartening that the Church won’t enforce the ‘rule’ because they are afraid of losing numbers. I’m inherently more conservative when it comes to these kinds of things, but I’m not in a position to choose another person’s position on the issue. People will decide for themselves to make a different choice than I would. It is what it is. Our priest wonders why we aren’t getting a lot of people into RCIA and all I can do is point to this. If people can take Communion and not be Catholic, then there really isn’t an incentive to be “Catholic.” He’s a new priest at our parish (w/in the past 5 years), so I try to give him the benefit of the doubt. Maybe he doesn’t know what has or what is being taught to the parish???
Still, if you can have the rights of being Catholic w/o being Catholic, then what’s the incentive, really?
Now, I’m rambling. Sorry.
Jo
Ah, yes, the old “Lutheran family conundrum.” I am so there!My inlaws are not Catholic (Lutheran). However, when they visit 3 times a year they always come with us to Catholic Mass. For the past 5 years they have sat quietly abstaining from Communion.
Suddenly they are not okay with this. During their most recent visit they actually took Communion. When I asked them what changed they said that they were sick of how exclusionary our Communion was, and that I could receive it in the Lutheran Church (I never have and never will).
They believe it is Jesus’ body and blood, but they don’t believe in the Consecration. Instead they believe the change happpens when you physically consume the bread and wine.
What do I do about this? I told them that if they felt this way that maybe they should attend Lutheran services while in town rather than come to Catholic Mass with us. However, that went over like a lead balloon, and I got a huge lecture about how it isn’t fair that their grandkids can’t participate in their faith, blah, blah, blah. (Our kids are Catholic.)
My faith has become a bigger issue with them after we had kids. They have three children, and none of them are practicing Lutherans at this point. My husband, while still technically Lutheran, hasn’t been to a Lutheran service since before we got married 5 years ago. He is praying about whether he is being called to covert to Catholicism. Unfortunately, I think this is the straw that is breaking the camel’s back with my inlaws.
I should add my husband told them they are wrong, and that it isn’t right for them to receive Communion when they don’t understand the fullness of what it means for our faith. My husband has never received Communion in the Catholic Church.
Sigh…any suggestions? Can I receive Communion if I know that there are Protestants taking it during a Catholic Mass?
I’m so thankful my inlaws live 12 hours from us, and I just have to deal with this a few times a year.
There have been plenty of times I have sat in my pew at Mass and not taken Communion. Whether I had unconfessed mortal sins, or I hadn’t fasted beforehand, I stay in my pew. It isn’t that weird, especially if I knew I wasn’t going to be going up I would sit where less people would have to walk over me (off to the side, etc).For months prior to RCIA I sat in my pew while most everyone else went up to receive the Eucharist. Not once did I feel as if anyone was staring at me in judgment. I think anyone in that church who saw me sitting/kneeling simply understood I was unable to receive. There was never any embarrassment.
Hate to burst your bubble, but unless there is some kind of special dispensation for this, and I have a hard time believing there would be given what you describe, your priest is in serious violation of Canon Law.My (Roman Catholic) parish has always welcomed all Christians to communion. Our pastor even gave communion to a woman minister of the local Lutheran church and allowed her to stand on the altar during the consecration. As a faith community we have grown much closer by this open practice. My grandmother is a Presbyterian and she didn’t take communion when she visited until I told her that she could. We even talked with our priest and he welcomed her to take communion.
Is your parish in communion with your local Bishop? (Is it “Roman Catholic” in the sense of recognizing the Bishop of Rome as its final authority?)My (Roman Catholic) parish has always welcomed all Christians to communion. Our pastor even gave communion to a woman minister of the local Lutheran church and allowed her to stand on the altar during the consecration. As a faith community we have grown much closer by this open practice. My grandmother is a Presbyterian and she didn’t take communion when she visited until I told her that she could. We even talked with our priest and he welcomed her to take communion.
I’m glad you said that. I appreciate the previous Lutheran poster’s perspective that if they believe in the real presence, it makes sense that they should be able to believe. But what I don’t understand is how a Lutheran can say in honesty that they believe the same thing about the Eucharist that Catholics believe. For one, “real presence” actually means something slightly different to Lutherans than Catholics (I am not well versed on the topic, but I think it is the difference between Transubstantiation and Consubstantiation).The Catholic Eucharist is the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ. It is the Real Presence. It can only be consecrated by a Catholic priest, and (normally) only received by Catholics. This is the heart of the matter. It’s not about feelings or wishes or ecumenical gestures, no matter how heartfelt those may be on the part of persons who experience them. We need to get down to basics and build outward from there, rather than going from the outside in with our human motivations and arguments. :twocents:
I’d be curious where you are, though I realize you may not choose to reveal that. I just give thanks to God that I don’t live where attending your parish would be my only option, because I’d be cringing during Communion time, and going home after Mass to write to the bishop and if necessary Rome. :sad_yes: I’m sure the priest thinks he’s doing something good, but in reality he’s sacrificing a greater good for the sake of a lesser “good” and that is contradictory to Catholic morals and theology.Yes my parish in in communion with our bishop and Rome. Were just one of the more “open” parishes in our diocese (and for that matter the US)
It’s like, I wouldn’t march into a Jewish Synagogue, without having taken the steps to become Jewish, and demand a Bat Mitzvah.I’m glad you said that. I appreciate the previous Lutheran poster’s perspective that if they believe in the real presence, it makes sense that they should be able to believe. But what I don’t understand is how a Lutheran can say in honesty that they believe the same thing about the Eucharist that Catholics believe. For one, “real presence” actually means something slightly different to Lutherans than Catholics (I am not well versed on the topic, but I think it is the difference between Transubstantiation and Consubstantiation).
But even more importantly, as 3DOCTORS puts it, Catholics believe that the Lutheran hosts are just bread, that they do NOT have the Eucharist, and that only a Catholic priest is capable of consecration. So even if a Lutheran believes that just about anyone can say the words and make the real presence appear, wouldn’t it make them uncomfortable to express unity with a group that didn’t respect THEIR communion? Wouldn’t they think that Catholics are either wrong or lying? How is that the same as the Lutheran belief? Why then would you want to express unity with our wrong or dishonest beliefs? It would seem more spiritually consistent to not say “Amen” to what you don’t really mean “Amen” to.
**By far, the most frustrating thing to me is that anyone would refuse to respect the beliefs of the place where they are guests. Why on earth would someone want so badly to take communion that they would intentionally defy the rules of the church that is offering it? How would such disrespect unify us and reflect Christ’s love? Isn’t that the point of Communion, especially according to any protestant Christian? What well intentioned Christian would intentionally do something that would be considered a serious offense to the church where they are guests? Such an act, when no longer done in ignorance, would seem to be motivated out of selfishness. **
If a guest in your home defies your rules and makes it clear that they will never respect your wishes in your own home, would you invite them back to your house? In the same way, I would do what I can to keep these relatives from coming to Mass.
Don’t get me wrong- I do explain “gently,” but I also do not mince words or sugarcoat my message. It’s dangerous to do so- being vague allows for too much interpretation. Much of the Catholic dogma is clearly laid out and explained. I would hope that my own explanations do it justice. (For the record, I have never told someone their faith is a “knock-off brand” even it is what I truly feel and think at the time. Call it smug, call it arrogant, call it “completely lacking in humility before God.” I just hope you’re as willing to accept and respect my opinions as you clearly do for everyone else’s.)I can’t even begin to describe what a poor testament this is to the Catholic faith to someone considering converting. It smacks of unbelievable arrogance and is completely lacking in humility before God. It is one thing to gently explain “we believe X because of y and z” and quite another to tell someone “your faith is a knock of brand of the real thing, and you are all wrong.” Probably the main “knock off” is the Anglican Church, which started out of very selfish motives, but many denominations were the result of groups of people genuinely wanting to please God, and not able to reconcile parts of the Catholic (or other faiths) with what they felt God wanted, based on the Bible. Their motive was a desire for authentic Christianity.
“It’s not my responsibility to be tolerant of their wrongness”. Your responsibility is to love them, and honor thy father and mother. You are also not responsible to be the Eucharist police for your in-laws.(if you were in the position of the OP) Creating a huge fuss about their “wrongness”, because their faith is “just a knock off brand” it not a loving thing to do. Being a living testament to the Catholic faith is, surely this “fullness” you speak of includes more than smugness you have chosen the “right” belief system The OP has chosen a much more loving approach.
Perhaps, also, her in-laws can be present at more church functions, such as Bible/book studies or service projects where the Eucharist is not served, so they can get more of an appreciation for the fullness of Catholic faith. When you believe in the Real Presence, what does that look like in terms of how your life has lived? How does the Eucharist impact you once you leave the mass? I got a bigger picture by someone showing the Adoration Chapel, perhaps that would help explain how the Real Presence of Eucharist is in the Catholic Church.
Show it, don’t just say it, and perhaps they will understand, and it will not be a source of tension.