Intelligent Design

[The_DNA_Rose]

Oh dear. First, DNA is made of molecules. Second, the processes of of transcription from DNA to mRNA and of translation from mRNA to the final protein are well understood.

If you do not study the science behind this then you will not know what science already know. DNA → mRNA → protein transcription and translation are known and understood processes.

All your question here is showing is that you need to learn more biology.

First, I explicitly said that I was using Shannon and Kolmogorov to measure complexity. Using those measures then the human genome is less complex.

Second, you are moving the goalposts. You started off talking about complexity. Having lost that argument, you try to switch to efficiency as a criterion. They are not the same thing. Unfortunately for you, I noticed your switch.

How do you measure efficiency? The human genome is inefficient compared to the onion because the onion can photosynthesise, while humans cannot. All that human DNA has zero photosynthetic efficiency. The onion can photosynthesise so its DNA is more efficient that human DNA.

You are right. There are people who cannot calculate a Fibonacci sequence. There are people who do not know what a Fibonacci sequence is. Plants arrange their leaves in a Fibonacci sequence. The onion does indeed win over non-mathematical humans.

If you want to discuss a scientific subject then you really need to be up to speed on the scientific background to that subject. Many of the people you will be arguing against here are up to speed on that background. You will need to be able to match them. If you can’t match them then you will lose your discussions here.

rossum

Wow, DNA is made of molecules…radical man (waving peace sign)

Everything, that is not a pure element is made up of molecules, is this some kind of revelation.

The question is how does DNA allow for the calculation that there is around 111,000,000,000,000 feet of DNA in a typical human body. That’s, 111 trillion feet of DNA, in every human. Dude, this is simply the greatest thing ever designed, saying that it made itself in a warm pond, is idiotic.

 

[Al_Moritz]

The question is how does DNA allow for the calculation that there is around 111,000,000,000,000 feet of DNA in a typical human body. That’s, 111 trillion feet of DNA, in every human. Dude, this is simply the greatest thing ever designed, saying that it made itself in a warm pond, is idiotic.

Nobody is such an idiot to claim that human DNA made itself in a warm pond.

Like others said, you need to study the science more and understand it better.

 

[rossum]

Everything, that is not a pure element is made up of molecules, is this some kind of revelation.

Google “plasma”.

The question is how does DNA allow for the calculation that there is around 111,000,000,000,000 feet of DNA in a typical human body. That’s, 111 trillion feet of DNA, in every human.

So? An elephant has more. A Blue Whale has even more. A Giant Redwood has yet more. The longest is probably Thimmamma Marrimanu

Dude, this is simply the greatest thing ever designed, saying that it made itself in a warm pond, is idiotic.

You lack of understanding of the theory of evolution, and in particular of common descent, is evident. No scientists believes that humans emerged from a warm pond (unless they had gone swimming first )

Humans (genus Homo) emerged from a population of Australopithecines, not from a warm pond. There was once a ‘warm pond’ but that was billions of years earlier, long long before any humans.

You are aiming at a strawman, so your shots are going wide of the real target.

rossum

 

[The_DNA_Rose]

Nobody is such an idiot to claim that human DNA made itself in a warm pond.

Like others said, you need to study the science more and understand it better.

Whew, seriously, you are the one who needs to study dude. The idea was first postulated by the dopey Charles Darwin.

Darwins letter to Joseph Hooker.

It is often said that all the conditions for the first production of a living organism are now present, which could ever have been present.— But if (& oh what a big if) we could conceive in some warm little pond with all sorts of ammonia & phosphoric salts,—light, heat, electricity &c present, that a protein compound was chemically formed, ready to undergo still more complex changes, at the present day such matter wd be instantly devoured, or absorbed, which would not have been the case before living creatures were formed.

The warm pond theory is the entire basis of Darwin’s goofy ideas.

Come back after you finish your education.

Next.

 

[PRmerger]

Whew, seriously, you are the one who needs to study dude. The idea was first postulated by the dopey Charles Darwin.

Darwins letter to Joseph Hooker.

It is often said that all the conditions for the first production of a living organism are now present, which could ever have been present.— But if (& oh what a big if) we could conceive in some warm little pond with all sorts of ammonia & phosphoric salts,—light, heat, electricity &c present, that a protein compound was chemically formed, ready to undergo still more complex changes, at the present day such matter wd be instantly devoured, or absorbed, which would not have been the case before living creatures were formed.

The warm pond theory is the entire basis of Darwin’s goofy ideas.

Come back after you finish your education.

Next.

Careful, Rose. It is good for you to be here and in dialogue with knowledgeable Catholics.

It would be a shame for you to be banned.

Tone down the insinuations that people are stupid for not agreeing with you, and you’ll do fine.

 

[edwest2]

We do not have the ability to “design” life since we have no true vision of the full potential of life - the end for which it has been created to begin with. Sure we can come up with contrived or arbitrary ends, or insist that survival, knowledge, comfort, security, pleasure, happiness, etc., are those final goods, but we can’t know that with certainty. To simply assume them as sufficient to what you take to mean playing the “role of God” I would suggest is the Fall that got us here to begin with.

There is no “role” to be played with regard to God because God alone CAN play that role. He alone has the full capability of doing so. To presume human can fulfill that role will result in a terminal line of Hitlers, Idi Amins, Pol Pots, Josef Stalins, :yawn: Oh my, did I just :yawn: again? I apologize for my rudeness. That sudden tiredness just came over me.

Correct. The Fall impacted all of Creation. And that Creation was an Intelligent Project. We don’t call God Creator or Maker for nothing. Intelligent Design shows that design exists, not “it just turned out that way by luck.”

Ed

 

[The_DNA_Rose]

Google “plasma”.

So? An elephant has more. A Blue Whale has even more. A Giant Redwood has yet more. The longest is probably Thimmamma Marrimanu

You lack of understanding of the theory of evolution, and in particular of common descent, is evident. No scientists believes that humans emerged from a warm pond (unless they had gone swimming first )

Humans (genus Homo) emerged from a population of Australopithecines, not from a warm pond. There was once a ‘warm pond’ but that was billions of years earlier, long long before any humans.

You are aiming at a strawman, so your shots are going wide of the real target.

rossum

There is no need for me to Google plasma, I have to assume that you are inferring plasma as the fourth state of matter, solid/liquid/gas and plasma. Are you inferring that plasma can exist in a human, or that a human can exist in or near plasma? I fail to see the point here…

I have posted Darwin’s letter to Joseph Hooker, and Darwin clearly believed in the warm pond, in fact he may have invented it out of nothingness. So by your standard, Darwin was not a scientist, very interesting indeed.

 

[Al_Moritz]

Whew, seriously, you are the one who needs to study dude. The idea was first postulated by the dopey Charles Darwin.

Darwins letter to Joseph Hooker.

It is often said that all the conditions for the first production of a living organism are now present, which could ever have been present.— But if (& oh what a big if) we could conceive in some warm little pond with all sorts of ammonia & phosphoric salts,—light, heat, electricity &c present, that a protein compound was chemically formed, ready to undergo still more complex changes, at the present day such matter wd be instantly devoured, or absorbed, which would not have been the case before living creatures were formed.

The warm pond theory is the entire basis of Darwin’s goofy ideas.

Of course I am familiar with the warm pond idea, but it doesn’t say that human DNA was formed in a warm pond. You need to work on your reading and apprehension skills.

Come back after you finish your education.

Next.

You obviously have no idea about my education. The internet is sometimes a funny place. Hilarious.

 

[The_DNA_Rose]

But it doesn’t say that human DNA was formed in a warm pond. You need to work on your reading and apprehension skills.

You obviously have no idea about my education. The internet is sometimes a funny place. Hilarious.

Actually, I am currently in a thread with another individual, not here, who is checking Einstein’s work and looking for dark matter/energy, so yes the internet is full of people with great intellectual talents, of this there is no doubt.

 

[edwest2]

And I know genius level people who want nothing to do with the internet. They stay in contact using means other than the internet.

Ed

 

[Gary_Sheldrake]

We do have a very good idea. There are organisational genes, such as Hox genes, which organise the overall body plan. Those genes operate switches on other genes in a cascade which ends up with the correct parts being built in the correct places. At the end of your digits, the ‘build a fingernail’ switch is set on, while it is set off elsewhere. In your head, the ‘build an eye’ switch is set on, while it is set off elsewhere. We even know the exact gene for eyes, Pax-6 in mammals, or its equivalent, ‘eyeless’ in fruit flies.

For a very good overview of how the DNA control cascades are organised, read “Your Inner Fish” by Neil Shubin.

rossum

Good Evening Rossum: The Hox genes in worms, fruit flies, mammals and fish, are quite similar. The switching on of Hox genes does not in and of itself determine form, otherwise worms and fruit flies would not look different from humans. Hox genes do not explain the organization of cells that make up organisms. They simply act as switches to start the process of making a particular protein.

That said, knowing how genes and DNA work is useful in understanding biology and evolution, however, they do not explain the biological or evolutionary process, and this is my point. And I am not pretending to understand the evolutionary process. I am simply saying that no one really does, nor does anyone have it sewn up into a neat package. There are notable holes. It doesn’t mean evolution doesn’t happen. It’s pretty clear that it does. But until humans learn to be honest about what they know v what they don’t know, we’re going to slow down the learning process.

All the best,
Gary

 

[rossum]

There is no need for me to Google plasma, I have to assume that you are inferring plasma as the fourth state of matter, solid/liquid/gas and plasma. Are you inferring that plasma can exist in a human, or that a human can exist in or near plasma? I fail to see the point here…

I am merely correcting your earlier error:

Everything, that is not a pure element is made up of molecules, is this some kind of revelation.

You were wrong, plasma is not made of either molecules or atoms. Nothing in your initial statement said anything about humans; I was talking about your “everything”.

I have posted Darwin’s letter to Joseph Hooker, and Darwin clearly believed in the warm pond, in fact he may have invented it out of nothingness.

Please go back and read what I actually said. Here is is again:

Humans (genus Homo) emerged from a population of Australopithecines, not from a warm pond. There was once a ‘warm pond’ but that was billions of years earlier, long long before any humans.

I accepted the ‘warm pond’, and I pointed out your error in thinking that humans originated from that warm pond. You have failed to read Darwin correctly, and you have failed to read my post correctly. You are not doing well here.

I also note that you have no refutation of my point about humans not having the greatest overall length of DNA. Your attempts to make human DNA special in some way have all failed. First it was complexity: failed. Then it was efficiency: failed. Then it was length: failed.

Unless and until you learn more about science, and apply your learning to your posts, you will continue to fail here. You are making avoidable errors. You can avoid them by reading things more carefully and by learning more about biology and evolution. I would suggest Evolution 101 as a good place to start.

rossumhttp://evolution.berkeley.edu/evosite/evo101/index.shtml

 

[The_DNA_Rose]

And I know genius level people who want nothing to do with the internet. They stay in contact using means other than the internet.

Ed

And I know of genius level people who invented the software that you are accessing the internet with right now, and I can also name about ten or so billionaires who use the internet nearly every day to track their investments. I also know that you are for some reason, using the internet, and lambasting it at the same time, which Mr. Spock would say is, not logical.

 

[Al_Moritz]

You are not doing well here.

Talking about a gentle understatement.

 

[Bradski]

By that folly, the judge took to himself to determine what has been “understood” by many (including Bradski and Hans W) to be a philosophically binding judgement from a legal ruling that every flavor of “intelligent design” had to be, from that time on, identical to and nothing but the misconceived notion in the minds of those Creationist individuals on trial at the time they perpetrated the cdesign proponentsists error.

Well, Peter, they may be fooling you. But they certainly ain’t fooling me.

 

[Peter_Plato]

Well, Peter, they may be fooling you. But they certainly ain’t fooling me.

Careful, Bradski, the Rose, despite her thorny defenses, has already capitulated to my superior onion-inspired intellect.

I am giving you fair warning. Don’t fool with me!

I will unleash the full terror of my inner onion. You will be on your knees weeping for mercy!

 

[The_DNA_Rose]

Careful, Bradski, the Rose, despite her thorny defenses, has already capitulated to my superior onion-inspired intellect.

I am giving you fair warning. Don’t fool with me!

I will unleash the full terror of my inner onion. You will be on your knees weeping for mercy!

Yes, we are all in fear of the remake of the famous movie starring Charlton Heston and James Franciscus, Beneath the Planet of the Onions, where mind controlling onions, force fights between time lost astronauts, in a world where onions keep people as zoo animals.

Sheesh.

 

[PRmerger]

Yes, we are all in fear of the remake of the famous movie starring Charlton Heston and James Franciscus, Beneath the Planet of the Onions, where mind controlling onions, force fights between time lost astronauts, in a world where onions keep people as zoo animals.

Sheesh.

Heh. Clever.

 

[Peter_Plato]

Well, Peter, they may be fooling you. But they certainly ain’t fooling me.

Whether or not they are fooling anyone ought to be left to the evidence and a defense of their methods and conclusions, not predetermined by intuition.

 

[grannymh]

Careful, Bradski, the Rose, despite her thorny defenses, has already capitulated to my superior onion-inspired intellect.

I am giving you fair warning. Don’t fool with me!

I will unleash the full terror of my inner onion. You will be on your knees weeping for mercy!

Weeping from an onion. I am not a cook!

Just wondering if anything intelligent was going on.