Intelligent Design

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Yes I am Catholic, I was married by my uncle, who had a sister who was a sister…

So you do not believe that NASA should be working on a Mars base, to expand our knowledge of the universe, and bring missionaries to Mars, or other worlds as well. The Pope might well send a priest to do the baptisms…

Would you like the quote from the Pope…
Excuse me but you said in a previous post: “You are God, if you become an astronaut, who takes life to another World, and can get it to grow, where it will continue to evolve as it was designed to.”
How do you become God by being an astronaut?

I didn’t say anything about being for or against NASA or their space program. Now that you ask, I think space exploration is okay, but it sure costs a lot of money. I think they have proven that there is no life on Mars though…:rolleyes:
 
If ID is the mechanism for creating life, why did it take 1.5 billion years after Earth cooled for God to at last create a microbe that creates atmospheric oxygen for the rest of us to breathe?

Without gaseous oxygen, carbon-based life was not ready to emerge on Earth.

The first living microbes ate minerals (lithotrophs). And this pattern existed for 1.5 billion years. Because the supply of edible minerals was limited, a few microbes began to use sunlight to supplement their energy. Eventually the cyanobacteria, using sunlight, began implementing a way to break down water into separate molecules of hydrogen and oxygen.

Voila! Atmospheric oxygen was created. Did God do this? If so, why did it take 1.5 billion years for this to happen. Unfortunately there was so much oxidizable mineral matter lying around, that the new atmospheric oxygen wound up being combined with the minerals, especially iron oxides (rust), and did not begin to become a prominent part of the atmosphere for several hundred million years. Finally when oxidizable iron became in short supply, an excess oxygen began to accumulate in gaseous form, atmospheric oxygen began to be available. Why did it take billions years for this to happen if God intended to populate Earth with life?
That question is another example of the current mania for instant coffee, instant photos and instant (or rapid) results in every aspect of life which ignores the fact that value and significance have nothing to do with duration, location, quantity or frequency. Nature is not in a hurry but it produces masterpieces of exquisite grace and beauty that man cannot hope to emulate. More haste less speed - and less intelligence!

On the one hand Creationism is criticised because it is too fast and on the other hand Design is condemned because it is too slow. What precise period of time would satisfy the perspicacious plaintiff as significant? :rolleyes:
 
Excuse me but you said in a previous post: “You are God, if you become an astronaut, who takes life to another World, and can get it to grow, where it will continue to evolve as it was designed to.”
How do you become God by being an astronaut?

I didn’t say anything about being for or against NASA or their space program. Now that you ask, I think space exploration is okay, but it sure costs a lot of money. I think they have proven that there is no life on Mars though…:rolleyes:
What did God do here?

He brought life?

If we were created in his image, as the bible says, and an astronaut, takes life to Mars, then the astronaut has done the same thing as God.

Why, because God made man in his image, to be able to be like him.

It’s rational, and the Pope believes in aliens too, if they come from space, they will be alien astronauts.

Why are you arguing with the Pope, I am backing him at this point you see.
 
God is not the God of Earth alone son, God has planets just chock full all over the place, it’s a big universe out there remember.
Someone on another thread made a guess, based on your limited knowledge of information retrieval systems, that you must be under 40.

My guess is that you are a precocious 8 year old, pulling a prank with a couple of buddies.
 
Someone on another thread made a guess, based on your limited knowledge of information retrieval systems, that you must be under 40.

My guess is that you are a precocious 8 year old, pulling a prank with a couple of buddies.
Are you following me for a reason son?
 
Are you following me for a reason son?
I was on this thread first, son.

I will, however, happily depart from the one you started to show good faith.

And I won’t reply to your posts any longer now that the jig is up.
 
This is edwest2’s answer when asked “Do you believe that the Pope is wrong for endorsing evolutionary science then?”

This thread is becoming more and more of a joke. People holding endless monologues. Close your eyes, close your ears and keep repeating your story over and over again. Let’s see who can hold out longer.

A typical case of cognitive dissonance: the mental stress or discomfort experienced by an individual who holds a very strong viewpoint and is confronted by new information that conflicts with existing beliefs, ideas, or values.

One way of getting rid of cognitive dissonance is to ignore new incoming information.
And another is to ignore pertinent questions as if they are impertinent…
 
If ID is the mechanism for creating life, why did it take 1.5 billion years after Earth cooled for God to at last create a microbe that creates atmospheric oxygen for the rest of us to breathe?

Without gaseous oxygen, carbon-based life was not ready to emerge on Earth.

The first living microbes ate minerals (lithotrophs). And this pattern existed for 1.5 billion years. Because the supply of edible minerals was limited, a few microbes began to use sunlight to supplement their energy. Eventually the cyanobacteria, using sunlight, began implementing a way to break down water into separate molecules of hydrogen and oxygen.

Voila! Atmospheric oxygen was created. Did God do this? If so, why did it take 1.5 billion years for this to happen. Unfortunately there was so much oxidizable mineral matter lying around, that the new atmospheric oxygen wound up being combined with the minerals, especially iron oxides (rust), and did not begin to become a prominent part of the atmosphere for several hundred million years. Finally when oxidizable iron became in short supply, an excess oxygen began to accumulate in gaseous form, atmospheric oxygen began to be available. Why did it take billions years for this to happen if God intended to populate Earth with life?
From God’s perspective the length of time is irrelevant. God lives outside time – He created time. For God everything exists in an instant, He knew from the beginning what the outcome of physical and biological evolution would be. God does not need to ‘wait’.

I am afraid you have a much too small idea of God. I bet for you God is just another superhuman, like such a pathetic figure as Zeus. If so, you’re mistaken.
 
Long story, grannymh. It all began a few pages back when a new patient started spouting nonsense and showing signs of aggression. I tried to communicate with her within her limited semantic range to, shall we say, lighten her mood, but that seems to have had little effect.

I see you were trying to engage with her just a few posts back. Careful, she may turn on you. She gave Al Moritz a good bite on the ankle, but Al’s a pretty tough guy.

Oh, my, I just had a thought…

I hope what she has is not contagious. We’d better keep an eye on Al, for a bit, just to be sure.

Unfortunately, Bradski seems to have come down with the malady (Post #674) and began showing signs of delusion. I attempted the same curative on him. Too early to confirm, but he hasn’t shown symptoms since. Let’s hope for the best. At least he’s not aggressive.

My full report is at the desk. It’s been a long night and my shift is done. See you tomorrow!

Say, that popcorn sure looks good. Mind if I have a handful?
Here :popcorn:On second thought, you will need an extra one:popcorn:
I see it is time to “get up and bar the door!”

Seriously, just in case this thread stays open for a bit …

I found a kind of contradicting gem in that link to the Kitzmiller v. Area School District – Conclusion
“In making this determination, we have addressed the seminal question of whether ID is science. We have concluded that it is not, …”

Yet, there are scientists who properly conduct scientific research who are somehow connected to I.D. Is that a contradiction to I.D. is not science? There are also scientists who do similar research without any known connection, so does that make them automatically contradicting the I.D. god"

Me thinks it is time for some common sense. :eek: Looking at this flying thread, common sense is not always common.

Looking at Intelligent Design per se, I found its search for God and its conclusion of a general deity as a good thing, which hopefully could lead souls to search for the real Creator as taught by the Catholic Church.

Looking at Intelligent Design from a Catholic viewpoint, I can give minimal credit to the search for God; however, Catholicism per se goes far beyond that. Catholicism, in my humble opinion, has a more realistic approach to natural science. It does not oppose evolution when it comes to ants and plants. It opposes those parts of science that directly challenges specific Catholic doctrines.
 
Yes I am Catholic, I was married by my uncle, who had a sister who was a sister…

So you do not believe that NASA should be working on a Mars base, to expand our knowledge of the universe, and bring missionaries to Mars, or other worlds as well. The Pope might well send a priest to do the baptisms…

Would you like the quote from the Pope…
I wonder why a 20 foot tall centipede with an IQ of 800 on another planet would want to be baptized in the name of an incarnation of God who took the form of a creature from earth from 2,000 years ago. Just a thought.

I also wonder if in 50,000 years, having evolved to another level of primate, we ourselves would want to be worshiping an earlier primate who came from a species just after the Neanderthals. I honestly wonder about that. I wonder if our thinking is rather myopic.

All the best,
Gary
 
I wonder why a 20 foot tall centipede with an IQ of 800 on another planet would want to be baptized in the name of an incarnation of God who took the form of a creature from earth from 2,000 years ago. Just a thought.

I also wonder if in 50,000 years, having evolved to another level of primate, we ourselves would want to be worshiping an earlier primate who came from a species just after the Neanderthals. I honestly wonder about that. I wonder if our thinking is rather myopic.

All the best,
Gary
All good questions, but the real question here, should be in my opinion. Why is the Pope speaking in public about aliens? Might he know more than he is saying in public?
 
All good questions, but the real question here, should be in my opinion. Why is the Pope speaking in public about aliens? Might he know more than he is saying in public?
News flash.

All Popes have a right to free speech. They can even express personal opinions. 😃

This does not give anyone permission to slam the Catholic Church on CAF.
 
News flash.

All Popes have a right to free speech. They can even express personal opinions. 😃
But the Popes free speech is sometimes equated to the word of God…

So what does God know about ET’s
 
But the Popes free speech is sometimes equated to the word of God…

So what does God know about ET’s
News flash.

All Popes have a right to free speech. They can even express personal opinions. 😃

This does not give anyone permission to slam the Catholic Church on CAF.
For example …

Nor does this give anyone permission to make God seem silly on CAF.
For example …
 
Me thinks it is time for some common sense.
Indeed. Some paragraphs from the judges conclusion:

We initially note that John Haught, a theologian who testified as an expert witness for Plaintiffs and who has written extensively on the subject of evolution and religion, succinctly explained to the Court that the argument for ID is not a new scientific argument, but is rather an old religious argument for the existence of God. He traced this argument back to at least Thomas Aquinas in the 13th century.

Dr. Haught testified that this argument for the existence of God was advanced early in the 19th century by Reverend Paley and defense expert witnesses Behe and Minnich admitted that their argument for ID based on the “purposeful arrangement of parts” is the same one that Paley made for design.

Dr. Haught testified that this argument for the existence of God was advanced early in the 19th century by Reverend Paley and defense expert witnesses Behe and Minnich admitted that their argument for ID based on the “purposeful arrangement of parts” is the same one that Paley made for design. (9:7-8 (Haught); Trial Tr. vol. 23, Behe Test., 55-57, Oct. 19, 2005; Trial Tr. vol. 38, Minnich Test., 44, Nov. 4, 2005). The only apparent difference between the argument made by Paley and the argument for ID, as expressed by defense expert witnesses Behe and Minnich, is that ID’s “official position” does not acknowledge that the designer is God. However, as Dr. Haught testified, anyone familiar with Western religious thought would immediately make the association that the tactically unnamed designer is God,

Although proponents of the IDM occasionally suggest that the designer could be a space alien or a time-traveling cell biologist, no serious alternative to God as the designer has been proposed by members of the IDM, including Defendants’ expert witnesses.

Professor Minnich testified that for ID to be considered science, the ground rules of science have to be broadened so that supernatural forces can be considered.

It is notable that not one defense expert was able to explain how the supernatural action suggested by ID could be anything other than an inherently religious proposition. Accordingly, we find that ID’s religious nature would be further evident to our objective observer because it directly involves a supernatural designer.

By comparing the pre and post Edwards drafts of Pandas, three astonishing points emerge: (1) the definition for creation science in early drafts is identical to the definition of ID; (2) cognates of the word creation (creationism and creationist), which appeared approximately 150 times were deliberately and systematically replaced with the phrase ID; and (3) the changes occurred shortly after the Supreme Court held that creation science is religious and cannot be taught in public school science classes in Edwards.

This compelling evidence strongly supports Plaintiffs’ assertion that ID is creationism re-labeled.
talkorigins.org/faqs/dover/kitzmiller_v_dover_decision.html

Space aliens, eh?
 
All good questions, but the real question here, should be in my opinion. Why is the Pope speaking in public about aliens? Might he know more than he is saying in public?
I have been in a corporate environment for many years, although many years ago I was in law enforcement. I think this is simply a political move, and nothing more. Here’s how I think it works: the Church is covering the possibility of intelligent life being found on other planets one day, perhaps in the near future, and is covering the liability of being made irrelevant by such a discovery by including the acknowledgement of this possibility up front, and assimilating it into it’s theology before it happens rather than later. Doing it beforehand secures a lot more credibility than doing it afterward. That’s all.

As far as the Vatican knowing some secret about aliens, well, the Vatican is just a big organization. Big organizations can’t keep track of themselves, much less big secrets. If the Vatican knew something, so would we.

Thanks,
Gary
 
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