Inter-faith Relationships

[kage_ar]

Dear Jesse,

Do you realise that you will not be able to marry in the Catholic church if you are divorced.

Lynda - please contact the office of the Tribunal at your Diocese. You have been given incorrect information, it would be prudent to verify your situation with the proper offices.

 

[chevalier]

People fight over many things, two Catholics can have the same fights- one might be more picky about their beliefs than the other.

Why I said I’m hesitant about more relaxed Catholics.

A Catholic and a non-Catholic can also agree on things of that nature. It is not unheard of.

Correct. But it’s also extremely unlikely.

Marriages take compromise and sacrifice, as does a serious dating relationship.

There’s a rule that doesn’t take compromise: one cannot do evil so that good would come out of it. Inaction is where it ends. Action can’t be. Even in the realm of inaction, if there are things I wouldn’t not do to save my life, I don’t think I’d be happy to do them for a woman.

I’ve read over all the pages in this thread. And the conclusion that I end up with is that there are good and bad Catholics, and good and bad Non-Catholics. Some spouses have converted, others have kept their faith. It works between interfaith, and can fall apart even if both are Catholic.

Of course, bad there’s a connection between struggles and difference in faith - difference in faith increases the probability of struggles.

And I’d also like to point out there’s a serious problem with non-Catholics as regards marriage: their definitions may not be the same as the Church’s, which means the marriage may be invalid on a number of possible grounds. Exclusion of permanence, exclusion of fidelity, exclusion of progeny, insufficient understanding of marriage, the list goes on.

Yes, yes, seeing that others have done it shouldn’t be proof that my relationship will work. But on the same hand, a bit to the left, seeing that other’s have failed shouldn’t be proof that mine will.

Correct. I wish you all the best. Seriously. I’ve been there and I’ve lived my part. It’s different now when I’m single and don’t have to wonder if it will work. Even these days, however, do I experience pain in this area of life, though. Not so long ago, in fact, just yesterday, I met a girl who actually made me turn around, catch up with her and say my name, then spend over half an hour walking and talking. She was a medical student, one year away from graduation, planning to specialise in neonatology. It came to abortion. We talked about the current law. I said I wouldn’t punish (criminally) women in case of danger to life, though I’d rather not have to make it legal for them so they could save their lives through abortion. Instead I attacked the “criminal origin” grounds and said a further injustice, a homicide, will not right any wrong, to which she gave no reply, though I suspect it sort of caught. “So, sir, do you still wish to keep me company?” I glossed over the answer with the agility of a lawyer. But kill me if I’ve met someone so kind and so polite and so well brought up - in addition to the obvious thing with being a doctor specialising in little children - more than a couple of times in my life. Not to mention attentive and genuinely respectful. One could feel it was 50 years back in time. Actually asked for the number and took it, but you have no idea about the mental battleground. Or maybe you do. Sometimes it feels like the aforementioned taking a bullet (when I say I’d rather take a bullet than do something) would be a cheap and easy solution compared to having actually to act one way or the other. Anyway, after this lengthy interlude, you have some emotional support from someone who understands. Hope you won’t have to make too many too difficult choices or that you’ll be able to cope with everything that comes.

For those that say never, are you friends with non-Catholics?

Yes, of course, though you may have noticed by now that my “never” may not be so absolute as I would have thought.

Almost seems to me as if you can’t be-- the way some of these posts read it is as if you see them as another species that cannot be mingled with.

Friends are different. From a guy’s point of view, a female friend taking the pill is not the same caliber of a problem as his own wife taking it. Friends bringing up their children as atheists are not your spouse bringing up your children as atheists. Friends who don’t mind their children skipping church for a cartoon are not your spouses not minding the same. Friends who don’t want to send their children to confession are not your spouse thinking children shouldn’t have to confess their sins. And so on and so forth.

 

[awantz]

Correct. But it’s also extremely unlikely.

It depends on the faith of the non-Catholic. Catholics and Protestants are not that much different in their faith.

Friends are different. From a guy’s point of view, a female friend taking the pill is not the same caliber of a problem as his own wife taking it. Friends bringing up their children as atheists are not your spouse bringing up your children as atheists. Friends who don’t mind their children skipping church for a cartoon are not your spouses not minding the same. Friends who don’t want to send their children to confession are not your spouse thinking children shouldn’t have to confess their sins. And so on and so forth.

Who’s to say the wife will want to take the pill? Just because your spouse is not Catholic doesn’t mean they will want to raise the kids as Atheist. Non-Catholics don’t let their kids skip church to watch a cartoon. Just because a non-Catholic may not want to send their children to confession doesn’t mean they think their children do not have to confess theie sins.

 

[onmyknees]

“Well, tough luck, but I’d rather not end up in a relationship in which I have to fight for every decision regarding the children’s upgringing, every refusal of going to a party on a fast day, not even to mention pronouncements regarding abortion or contraception.”

People fight over many things, two Catholics can have the same fights- one might be more picky about their beliefs than the other. A Catholic and a non-Catholic can also agree on things of that nature. It is not unheard of. Marriages take compromise and sacrifice, as does a serious dating relationship.

I’ve read over all the pages in this thread. And the conclusion that I end up with is that there are good and bad Catholics, and good and bad Non-Catholics. Some spouses have converted, others have kept their faith. It works between interfaith, and can fall apart even if both are Catholic.

I have also read hopes that the Church bans interfaith marriages. Now, would that make people already in such a marriage, otherwise valid, no longer married? And what of those people who hope to be married and are such a couple? If that were to happen… well, three things come to mind, should the couple not want to split up. A fake conversion from the non-Catholic, leaving the Church from the Catholic, or living in sin for the both of them without any marriage.

Thankfully there is no ban. The Church does discourage such marriages, but there can and do happen. Yes, I know that not everything always ends well, but we can all see that it has worked out well for more than one person.

Yes, yes, seeing that others have done it shouldn’t be proof that my relationship will work. But on the same hand, a bit to the left, seeing that other’s have failed shouldn’t be proof that mine will.

Statistics keep up popping up that if the father doesn’t go to Church, neither shall the children. But the same study also seems to show that most children will go as adults if their father alone attends. So should all Catholic mothers, for the sake of statistics, lose their faith?

Before I had technically agreed to date my boyfriend I told him no-- because he was not Catholic and I assumed I was not allowed to date him. I was then informed that I could. So I took back the rejection and that is something that I in no way, shape or form regret. Or ever shall. He is a good man, caring and loving. He and I discuss faith and religion, we can and do work things out if there is a problem.

I do ask that this thread continue, there is still much to talk about and it is a nice discussion.

For those that say never, are you friends with non-Catholics? Almost seems to me as if you can’t be-- the way some of these posts read it is as if you see them as another species that cannot be mingled with.

Sweet Jill
I have to agree with the last poster who said that sometimes there can’t be compromise. It is either wrong or right. I 'm thinking of several examples of mortal sins. I know that when I went through Catholic schools I was not taught many things about the faith. I was wondering if you have a really good knowledge of your faith and have been able to discuss all the big issues with your bf like birth control, npf, abortion, sexual sins and more?

 

[onmyknees]

I also wanted to say that I have a non-catholic husband and friends. It is very hard too because I can’t really share the beauty, joy and love of the entire Catholic faith with them, especially the real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist!

 

[LeahInancsi]

For those that say never, are you friends with non-Catholics? Almost seems to me as if you can’t be-- the way some of these posts read it is as if you see them as another species that cannot be mingled with.

Jill,

I agree with what you said especially this statement. If I had limited myself to only dating Catholic guys, I probably would have dated only two guys and that was before I graduated from college. While they were great guys, the relationships never evolved to the point of discussing marriage. Eventhough I never married, I would have had very little chance of marrying at all if I had limited myself to dating only Catholics. In the event that I had felt compelled to marry any Catholic just to marry because Catholicism calls its people to marry, then I’d be divorced or very unhappy and neither of those alternatives is acceptable.

Without going back and reading each post where the author says that Catholics should never date or marry non-Catholics, I willing to bet that they were lucky enough to find the “right” Catholic to marry. There may be a few who married non-Catholics who they divorced, but I doubt religion was the only reason the marriage failed.

 

[Sweet_Jill]

Sweet Jill
I have to agree with the last poster who said that sometimes there can’t be compromise. It is either wrong or right. I 'm thinking of several examples of mortal sins. I know that when I went through Catholic schools I was not taught many things about the faith. I was wondering if you have a really good knowledge of your faith and have been able to discuss all the big issues with your bf like birth control, npf, abortion, sexual sins and more?

I understand that, I do. I’m not saying to toss aside certain beliefs. But to talk about them if there is an issue and to reach a point where neither party is offended. I have spoken with him on those topics, and I do have knowledge of my faith. I do not consider myself a cafeteria Catholic either.

 

[onmyknees]

Sweet Jill
I’m glad that you have talked together about these important issues before marriage because as you know that wonderful love you feel for each other now, changes. Love is less about feelings and way more about endless patience, forgiving injuries, and freely giving over and over again. It is a sacrificial love that is impossible without the help of Jesus and His Blessed Mother. I have been married for 30 years and when I came back to the Church my priest told me that my job was to get myself and my husband to heaven! I had double the work because my husband was not Catholic. I still have a lot of work to do. I personally think that it will be a lot less stress and heartache if you both are able to agree on all of these difficult issues before getting married. May I recommend " Contraception Why Not" by Dr. Janet Smith on a CD and “The Conversion of Dr. Scott Hahn” also available on CD if you have not already listened to these. I am praying for you and your bf.

 

[Michael_Saint]

You say:

1. If I had limited myself to only dating Catholic guys, I probably would have dated only two guys and that was before I graduated from college.
2. Without going back and reading each post where the author says that Catholics should never date or marry non-Catholics, I willing to bet that they were lucky enough to find the “right” Catholic to marry.

My response:

1. Nothing wrong with dating two guys only - I have never dated any girl, and am hoping the first girl I date will be the one I marry. Better than coming into a relationship with a half-a-dozen emotional divorces under my belt. The fact is, it is not about “easy” or “difficult”: it is about “Trust in the Lord”. I can tell you story upon story of Catholics who waited for the right one, and when they were least expecting it, God dropped that person right in their lap. The more effort we exert, the more we push God out of the picture.
2. Actually, no, you are wrong about this assumption. I am 30 and have never dated - tried finding the right girl 5 times since I left seminary, and all of them turned me down (4 of them good Catholic girls - the one who wasn’t was shortly after I left seminary and I was in a terrible tailspin). But my faith tells me that I don’t need to have already “found the right one” to know that God will provide me with “the right one” in His timing, if it be His will.

 

[Maria1212]

I am entering the thread late in the game but thought I would add my two cents. I think for a practicing Catholic, it is best to marry another Catholic. I am still single but dated a Seventh Day Adventist and we eventually broke up over our faith. His family was very uncomfortable with the idea of him dating a Catholic. Moreover, my “red line,” or the things I would not compromise on were that I wanted a Catholic wedding (but was okay with having a Adventist minister co-preside) and I wanted any kids baptized Catholic. That obviously sent my former boyfriend running for the hills.

I learned an important lesson. For me, because my faith is the most important thing to me, I realized it is ideal to only date Catholics, and since then, that is what I have done. It led to a lot less dating, which is not necessarily a bad thing. I hope to marry a Catholic, and would not rule out dating a non-Catholic Christian under certain circumstances, but I learned I would save myself a lot of heart ache if I was clear upfront. I thought it was clear to my boyfriend, since he knew how devoted to my faith I was, but I realized I needed to vocalize that being married by the Church, and raising kids Catholic are things I would not compromise on,

I prayed long and hard and knew God would not want me to put a man before Jesus, so when my boyfriend and I broke up, I never looked back. It was mutual. Neither of us wanted our faith to be a source of conflict in marriage. I did not want to be resented by his family. I followed the St. Monica thread as a luker, and noticed a lot of women at church sitting in the pew alone with their children. Maybe their husbands had gone to a different Mass that day, who knows. But when I prayed, I also knew I didnt want to have to go to Church alone each week. And I did not want to have to go to an Adventist Church each week (as a way of supporting my husband s spiritual growth). My bottom line was I wanted my faith to be a source of unity, not division, and that is why I think it is better to marry someone of the same faith.

Inter-faith marriages can work. I have seen some successful ones. But more often than not, one person leaves their faith because it is “easier that way.” Children can also change things because faith becomes a lot more important to many people once they have children.

My bottom line is while inter-faith marriages can work, they are not the ideal, and they are a lot "harder. " I think it is better to marry someone of the same faith.

Sincerely,

Maria1212

 

[chevalier]

It depends on the faith of the non-Catholic. Catholics and Protestants are not that much different in their faith.

I do beg to differ.

Does bread and wine become Body and Blood of Christ?

How many sacraments are there according to Protestant faiths?

Is a priest a priest? Who’s a priest? Are there any priests actually?

Is divorce allowed? Is fornication wrong?

That’s a world of difference sometimes.

Who’s to say the wife will want to take the pill?

She does, unless she believes it to be wrong and cares enough about the fact it’s wrong, unless she will employ NFP for the husband’s sake, which takes levels of altruism not met in the modern civilisation.

Just because a non-Catholic may not want to send their children to confession doesn’t mean they think their children do not have to confess theie sins.

That sentence contradicts itself.

 

[chevalier]

My response:

Nothing wrong with dating two guys only

I confirm. There is nothing, absolutely nothing wrong with having even no experience whatsoever. I don’t think there’s any generic merit in dating a number of people - there is only potentially useful experience purchased at the price of hurts which may be a problem later.

I can tell you story upon story of Catholics who waited for the right one, and when they were least expecting it, God dropped that person right in their lap.

Do share some. If not here in public or in a separate thread, then I’d like to hear some via PM.

But my faith tells me that I don’t need to have already “found the right one” to know that God will provide me with “the right one” in His timing, if it be His will.

Yup. His will might be different, actually, and one can’t say He’s harming you. I’m a bit too tired to go on with conclusions from here, though.

 

[awantz]

I do beg to differ.

Does bread and wine become Body and Blood of Christ?

How many sacraments are there according to Protestant faiths?

Is a priest a priest? Who’s a priest? Are there any priests actually?

Is divorce allowed? Is fornication wrong?

That’s a world of difference sometimes.

Yes, bread and wine become Body and Blood of Christ.

When I look over the Catholic sacraments, I see that Protestants have those as well. Not all of them are required, but some of them are and Protestants don’t name all of them the same. However, the meaning of them is the same.

Yes, a priest a priest. A priest to a Catholic is the same as a pastor to a Protestant. Some Protestant churches call their pastors priests. Yes, there are Priests.

Divorce is allowed in the Catholic church just as much as it is in the Protestant church. Yes, fornication wrong.

Anyother questions?

She does, unless she believes it to be wrong and cares enough about the fact it’s wrong, unless she will employ NFP for the husband’s sake, which takes levels of altruism not met in the modern civilisation.

Some non-Catholic women do not want to take birth control pills.

That sentence contradicts itself.

I don’t see how. It doesn’t contradict itself. Confession is going to a Priest to confess your sins. A non-Catholic parent still wants their children to confess their sins to God. They just feel that you should not have to if you do not want to. However, the option should be there.

 

[LeahInancsi]

Awantz,

I think you’re only looking a surface appearances. Protestants, generally, do not believe in the “real presence” of Christ in the Eucharist. For them, bread and wine is only symbolic. Catholicism forbids artificial contraception. It’s not merely a matter of a woman not “wanting” to take birth control pills. Lutherans are the only ones who have any Sacraments (big “S”) other than Catholics and they only have two. Priests are a direct line to God via the Pope.

Since you feel there are so few differences that you will consider learning about the Church in depth, attending RCIA and eventually converting. You will be doing yourself, your husband and your future children a great favor.

 

[chevalier]

Yes, bread and wine become Body and Blood of Christ.

Yes, I know you believe that. But does a Protestant? One does, does another? How many do? Protestant beliefs are extremely different between one another.

When I look over the Catholic sacraments, I see that Protestants have those as well. Not all of them are required, but some of them are and Protestants don’t name all of them the same. However, the meaning of them is the same.

No, by all means not. Protestants don’t believe in Transsubstantiation, meaning they don’t believe the bread and wine is consecrated into Body and Blood of Christ unless by some means of consubstantiation (classical Lutheran as far as I know). They don’t believe in priesthood because they don’t believe any sacrificial priesthood is necessary or even possible. The only sacraments left are baptism and marriage.

The meaning of the Eucharist and priesthood is not the same by any means in Protestant denominations as it is in Catholicism. In many cases marriage is not understood the same. While Catholics believe marriage to be a sacrament so long as the two spouses are baptised, some non-Catholic faiths believe marriage to be a secular affair.

Yes, a priest a priest. A priest to a Catholic is the same as a pastor to a Protestant. Some Protestant churches call their pastors priests. Yes, there are Priests.

No, pastors are not priests. Most Protestant churches call their pastors pastors and those would take offence at being called priests, since they don’t believe in the necessity of offering mass because they believe saying mass is redundant. A pastor to a protestant is a spiritual leader and a leader in worship, but not someone who says mass for the living and the dead. And no, no Protestant pastor is a priest in the Catholic sense of the word unless he happens to be validly ordained by a validly ordained bishop, which is the case with some Anglican pastors being ordained by Old Catholic bishops, as well as when a Catholic or Orthodox or vagant but valid priest embraces Protestantism. Otherwise, no, they are not priests and I doubt they would like to be called so (with the exception of some Anglican ones).

Divorce is allowed in the Catholic church just as much as it is in the Protestant church. Yes, fornication wrong.

Divorce is not allowed in the Catholic Church. No force on Earth, including the Pope, can dissolve a valid and sacramental marriage when it has been consummated. The Pope can only dissolve unconsummated (ratum tantum) marriages. The other case is the Pauline and Petrine privileges - the former when one spouse converts and the other will not agree to live with him in peace, the latter when the convert has many spouses and does not want to live with the first one - he can choose another, but just one.

In Protestant denominations, there are ceremonies in which now former spouses forgive each other and agree to part ways, creating an impediment between themselves (they can’t remarry), but they can marry other people. In the Catholic Church there is no divorce in the sense of terminating a valid and sacramental, consummated marriage, let alone remarrying.

If you consider the so called “annulment”, which is in fact properly called a “nullity decree”, is strictly a declaration after some survey. It has no power to terminate a marriage which is valid - it only officially declares an already invalid marriage to be invalid and not binding, so that the people involved could marry someone.

Also, fornication is not believed wrong by some Protestant denominations. Many believe it’s up to the couple, prayerful discernment, something not to be taken likely, but they don’t always believe it’s a mortal sin to be avoided. Some claim the word used in the Bible refers only to paid sex, prostitution, and it doesn’t ban premarital sex. I’m sure there are some Protestant denominations believing like the Catholic Church in sexual matters, but that’s not the case with the majority of Protestant denominations, I’m afraid.

Anyother questions?

I suggest you inquire about your current Protestant faith, as well as about the Catholic faith. Does your pastor believe he’s a sacrificial priest, for instance?

Some non-Catholic women do not want to take birth control pills.

They may not want so for a variety of reasons, not all of which include the assessment that birth control pills are wrong. In that case nothing precludes a change of mind at a later date. Few Protestants believe contraception is morally wrong.

 

[chevalier]

I don’t see how. It doesn’t contradict itself. Confession is going to a Priest to confess your sins. A non-Catholic parent still wants their children to confess their sins to God.

That’s not the same. Confession directly to God is one thing when you can’t get a priest and you’re in danger of death, but another thing when you reject the authority given by God to priests.

They just feel that you should not have to if you do not want to. However, the option should be there.

Catholics do not believe that Confession can be skipped. Telling children to confess directly to God if they like is not the same as sending them to Confession and is not a course of action that a Catholic parent can take.

And sorry if I sounded harsh. I understand you want to defend your beliefs, as well as that you’re on a specific stage in your journey and I wish I could pass the information in a friendlier manner. If you don’t like the way I say it, please read a book or ask the apologists here. Wishing you all the best and a lot of God’s grace, as well as a Merry Christmas.

 

[Brenda_V]

Awantz,

I think you’re only looking a surface appearances. Protestants, generally, do not believe in the “real presence” of Christ in the Eucharist. For them, bread and wine is only symbolic. Catholicism forbids artificial contraception. It’s not merely a matter of a woman not “wanting” to take birth control pills. Lutherans are the only ones who have any Sacraments (big “S”) other than Catholics and they only have two. Priests are a direct line to God via the Pope.

Since you feel there are so few differences that you will consider learning about the Church in depth, attending RCIA and eventually converting. You will be doing yourself, your husband and your future children a great favor.

I beg to differ here. There is at least one other Mainline Protestant denomination that has the seven Sacraments - Anglicans and their derivatives, Episcopalians etc. Now the only two of their Sacraments that the Catholic Church recognizes are (1) Baptism and (2)Holy Matrimony because they lost Apostolic Succession the others can not happen. These two are considered valid by HMC because it does not require a validly ordained Priest to confer them - in Baptism you just need the right form (water, either pouring or dunking) and the right formula (I Baptize you in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.) Holy Matrimony is actually the only Sacrament that the ordained minister is just the witness for the Church for, the couple actually confers this one on each other.

Now for the other Sacraments that the Anglicans (Episcopalians have but are not valid) (3) Holy Orders requires a validly ordained Bishop to confer on a man, (4)Confirmation again requires the validly ordained Bishop to confer on the people, then there is (5)Holy Communion, (6) Confession (Sacrament of Penance) and, (7)Last Rites (Sacrament of the Sick) all of these require a validly ordained Priest and that doesn’t happen because they don’t have a validly ordained Bishop to do that.

I will say in keeping with the topic of the thread, an inter-faith Marriage can work but it is rare when it does. Prayer is the only way to enter any Marriage but more so if you are contemplating marrying someone who is not the same Faith as you are or someone who may be a cultural Catholic. Marriage itself is not an easy endeavor but it is one that is well worth working at.

Brenda V.

 

[LeahInancsi]

I beg to differ here. There is at least one other Mainline Protestant denomination that has the seven Sacraments - Anglicans and their derivatives, Episcopalians etc. Now the only two of their Sacraments that the Catholic Church recognizes are (1) Baptism and (2)Holy Matrimony because they lost Apostolic Succession the others can not happen. These two are considered valid by HMC because it does not require a validly ordained Priest to confer them - in Baptism you just need the right form (water, either pouring or dunking) and the right formula (I Baptize you in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.) Holy Matrimony is actually the only Sacrament that the ordained minister is just the witness for the Church for, the couple actually confers this one on each other.

Now for the other Sacraments that the Anglicans (Episcopalians have but are not valid) (3) Holy Orders requires a validly ordained Bishop to confer on a man, (4)Confirmation again requires the validly ordained Bishop to confer on the people, then there is (5)Holy Communion, (6) Confession (Sacrament of Penance) and, (7)Last Rites (Sacrament of the Sick) all of these require a validly ordained Priest and that doesn’t happen because they don’t have a validly ordained Bishop to do that.

I will say in keeping with the topic of the thread, an inter-faith Marriage can work but it is rare when it does. Prayer is the only way to enter any Marriage but more so if you are contemplating marrying someone who is not the same Faith as you are or someone who may be a cultural Catholic. Marriage itself is not an easy endeavor but it is one that is well worth working at.

Brenda V.

I most sincerely apologize for my ignorance. I don’t think it was worth three paragraphs to correct a minor mistake on my part. I never claimed to be an expert in this area.

 

[ishnianqueen]

Divorce is not allowed in the Catholic Church. No force on Earth, including the Pope, can dissolve a valid and sacramental marriage when it has been consummated. The Pope can only dissolve unconsummated (ratum tantum) marriages. The other case is the Pauline and Petrine privileges - the former when one spouse converts and the other will not agree to live with him in peace, the latter when the convert has many spouses and does not want to live with the first one - he can choose another, but just one.

In Protestant denominations, there are ceremonies in which now former spouses forgive each other and agree to part ways, creating an impediment between themselves (they can’t remarry), but they can marry other people. In the Catholic Church there is no divorce in the sense of terminating a valid and sacramental, consummated marriage, let alone remarrying.

If you consider the so called “annulment”, which is in fact properly called a “nullity decree”, is strictly a declaration after some survey. It has no power to terminate a marriage which is valid - it only officially declares an already invalid marriage to be invalid and not binding, so that the people involved could marry someone.

Just for clarification on my part…

Divorce IS allowed and even encouraged in cases such as abuse, infidelity, other cases where harm is being done, etc. It is simply impossible for the people involved to be remarried if the marriage was indeed valid and sacramental. The divorce does not declare the marriage null or really dissolve it, it merely legally (earthly rather than spiritually) breaks it.

Right?

 

[chevalier]

Just for clarification on my part…

Divorce IS allowed and even encouraged in cases such as abuse, infidelity, other cases where harm is being done, etc. It is simply impossible for the people involved to be remarried if the marriage was indeed valid and sacramental. The divorce does not declare the marriage null or really dissolve it, it merely legally (earthly rather than spiritually) breaks it.

Right?

We need to separate the civil order and the canon order. A civil divorce has no bearing on the sacramental marriage. Some people see it as a marriage having ended and only an impediment remaining. That is not true. The marriage stands - so long as it was valid in the beginning. Only in the civil law is the marriage broken, in canon law the marriage is perfectly binding and extant.

This is why I say that in those countries in which the law allows separation, separation should be used by Catholics rather than divorce, since under canon law separation is the most they can get. Unfortunately, even by Catholics, the civil divorce is used as a way of “healing” by calling it quits and saying the marriage is no more. It allows people to see themselves as not much different from single, just not being able to remarry. That’s a luxury we can’t afford. Since we can’t have it materially, we shouldn’t seek the external appearance of it, either.

The official teaching is that civil divorce may be sought if that’s what it takes to protect oneself or children from abuse. Nowhere does it say about encouragement, though. Also, infidelity is not there. A cheating spouse is not a good reason to get a civil divorce. A violent spouse is, though. I’m afraid you might be confusing the way it works in civil law or in some Protestant faiths with the way it works in canon law. Those denominations which allow divorce (a religious divorce), list a number of grounds, which typically begin with infidelity. This is not the case with Catholics. For us, infidelity is only reason enough for separation, but the spouse is to be reminded that it would be charitable not to use that right.

I would say problems such as a violent spouse and parent can be solved via eviction and restraining order. Matters of financial nature can be dealt with by separating the property. A full civil divorce will in many such cases be excess and in fact a psychological device employed for the purpose of cutting ties.