Interesting article from a gay man about the abuse

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In the US, the John Jay report shows that 80% of the victims were post-pubescent males.

That means the vast majority of cases did not involve pedophilia.

And that the vast majority were homosexual in nature (whether due to the innate or situational idea of the homosexual nature of the act).
 
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Joline said:
It is quite a jump going from there to then asserting:
(a) others have the same experience as you;
(b) “but being gay does not make one a sex seeking automaton”
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The author, which I quoted, implied that he could not stop his sexual urges. He’s making the stretch that this applied to gay me in general. Would you like a gay person to generalize that Catholic sexual relations require no enjoyment for the woman and are really just designed produce babies? Of course not.
 
Joline said:
Due to Church homophobias and teaching significant numbers of young gay Catholic men likely do not know they are gay and are confused in the area of their own sexuality.
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Maybe you can help me understand the use of the term “homophobia”. Is the Church -afraid- (or do they fear) homosexuals? I’d suggest calling an individual or an organization homophobic is a misuse of the term unless they fear homosexuals. And why would anyone fear homosexuals? Weird word.
Joline said:
I see nothing intrinsically wrong with a priest advising a gay man in his late 20s or 30s to seek out a stable same-sex committed relationship rather than getting caught up in a viscious circle of uncontrollable promiscuous sex caused by an effort to quell concupiscence by raw will power alone and the naiive belief that with God (ie simply absolution/Communion) all things are possible.
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(assuming you were referring to advice from a priest to someone discerning the priesthood)

Why? What’s the difference? Are homosexuals or men with same-sex attractions less capable remaining celibate than their heterosexual counterparts? Isn’t this entire statement an indictment of same-sex attracted men towards lack of control? Is the drive of the same-sex attracted man towards another man that much a greater of an attraction than the heterosexual mans attraction toward a woman? This sounds like an excuse.
 
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Annie said:
In the US, the John Jay report shows that 80% of the victims were post-pubescent males. That means the vast majority of cases did not involve pedophilia.
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Does it matter? If we are going to make a big deal about this, then we just get to redefine them as rape (including sex with a minor) or sexual assault. Feel better? Even if there are more gay or pedophiles, would you consider that they may be a self-selecting group looking to hide behind Priestly Chasity?

What is on trial here is the ACTS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. It has been suppressing SEX crimes for decades and those do reflect a significant enough number of pedophiles. It does not matter if it was gay or whatever. If we are to obsess over the John Jay report, it appears to be from 2011; the Grand Jury had access to much more information.

Anyway, we have known for decades that there was a world wide problem with this. It took easily a decade for the Church to institute a zero tolerance policy. Yes, most of them have occurred in the somewhat decent past. BUT, the Catholic church wrote victim accusations off for years and in more than a few cases played financial games to limit civil liabilities. How unchristian and cynical can you be?
 
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Right. It is like advising a serial adulterer to keep it to just one man’s wife.
 
Yes it does matter. Age is a big factor in the seriousness of the sin. The lower the age the worse the sin.
 
exnihilo said:
Yes it does matter. Age is a big factor in the seriousness of the sin. The lower the age the worse the sin.
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I agree, but some are using this to defend the institution of the Church. It failed big time in an area it preaches against.
 
What I find disturbing is that some posters here are concluding that having one sexual disorder inclines one to another sexual disorder.

Having SSA does not necessarily incline one to pedophilia.
 
Joline said:
Due to Church homophobias and teaching significant numbers of young gay Catholic men likely do not know they are gay and are confused in the area of their own sexuality.
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But the Church isn’t homophobic and her teachings are just. I’m one of those young same sex attracted men and I find the Church’s teachings liberating, also there is an Apostolate created by the Church for those who experience same sex attraction, it’s called Courage. I’ve read up on this organization and I hope I can join soon because it has what I need to carry this cross.

Perhaps this Apostolate should be more available so that way people can find what they need there and not what they hope to find in the Priesthood…
 
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This reminds me of a single friend of mine who was accused of being gay by her brother simply because she was single. She’s not by the way.

This same brother also thought that having SSA inclined one to other sexual disorders and proceeded to ban my friend from ever seeing her nieces, because her brother was afraid of her molesting them.

If you think that people with SSA are more likely to be sex offenders, what do you think should be done with them?
 
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I think that we should encourage them not to act on their disordered sexual impuslse. I think we should get rid of pornography and sex shops. I’d say it is an article of faith, from the first chapter of Romans, that acting out on impure sexual desires causes depravity. I’d say that makes sense just upon reflection. What you feed will grow.

I really don’t understand the problem. I am a male. Males are more likely to commit all sorts of crimes. I don’t get bent out of shape if that is pointed out. I don’t deny that truth. I don’t feel the need to point out that I myself don’t commit crimes. I don’t feel the need to explain it away with some ad hoc argument. Rather, I take that information and make use of it to make sure I don’t fall victim to whatever it is that causes this to be so for sex.
 
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I have no issues with what you just posted.

I do have an issue with the idea that having SSA inclines one to be also a pedophile.

If that were the case, little girls would be a lot safer than little boys. Clearly this is not the case.

It’s also like saying that having a psychological disorder such as OCD will incline one to sociopathy.
 
“In the specific situations at hand, we are talking about deviant sexual — almost exclusively homosexual — acts by clerics. We’re also talking about homosexual propositions and abuses against seminarians and young priests by powerful priests, bishops, and cardinals. We are talking about acts and actions which are not only in violation of the sacred promises made by some, in short, sacrilege, but also are in violation of the natural moral law for all. To call it anything else would be deceitful and would only ignore the problem further.” -Bishop Robert Morlino

I’d encourage everyone to read Bishop Morlino’s full letter. Easily the most honest and forceful response I’ve heard by any bishop up to this point.

 
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Joline said:
I really don’t understand what their is to belabour over understanding my small observations.
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It’s the ecosystem this is happening in. More than a few people are fixated on the sexuality of the priests involved. The problem is the institutional failure and not centering on the victims of the abuse. The sexuality of the priests plays no real part in the sin of the institution.
Joline said:
Take powerless middle class Victorian wives in Christian countries - you may like to look up the word “hysteria” and find out the root meaning. The “hysterion” was an interesting device invented to relieve the sufferers from the symptoms of their affliction …their were so many cases that doctors didn’t have the time to manually treat them all.
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Hysteria was used to write of the emotions of women period. Women could do virtually do nothing, sign a contract or even talk to their doctor without her husband making the final decision.
 
Joline said:
My experience of life is that to extrapolate from myself to “everybody like me in one regard is like me in most regards” doesn’t hold I am afraid.
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Would you say the teachings of the Church are wrong in this regard? Are you saying that these teachings by themselves are homophobic?
 
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Joline said:
Pope Francis’s teaching allows some discerned Catholics to stay in sexually active remarriages, and even Communion in some cases.

Does he believe indissolubility of marriage is “wrong”
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What does this have to do with any of my comments?
 
Joline said:
Perhaps think about it for more than 30 secs.
God bless.
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Are you saying that gay marriages are recognized as a form of marriage in the Church and therefore it is taught that people can stay in that kind of marriage?

I still am confused. Please tell me what I said wrong/what you are trying to say
 
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