Interfaith marriage/relationship advice needed, please!

[vluvski]

I was thinking along the lines of the “church I grew up in” sentiment.

There are a lot of things at my “home” parish I don’t like (lots of shady deviations from the GIRM, poor counseling from priests concerning issues of faith and morals), and I LOVE LOVE LOVE the my new parish here in Aiken (I’m almost moved to tears every time I go to Mass)… but the old place is still my home parish.

 

[HappyCatholic01]

And honestly, I would be amenable to her church IF I had something to go on that was progress for us together. If she attended RCIA, esp. if she became Catholic. And though she swears up and down she will become Catholic if we marry, it scares me to roll the dice. Of course I’d love her and be a great husband either way, but it still scares me.

It just doesn’t make sense to me to say “I am not ready to attend RCIA”, but to say “I look forard to raising a Catholic family, sending our kids to Catholic school, etc”.

What does it take to “be ready” to attend RCIA? It is just info sessions at worst, and a steppign stone to conversion at best. She has pointed to her aunt who attended the Catholic church for about 20+ years, and finally, it took a friend saying to her"why not go through RCIA and become a member" for her to do it. But she has been single ger whole life. i daresay if she was seriously involved with a Catholic man, she would have had different motives.

I wonder if our Protestant friends here (or anywhere) think it is asking too much. I have tried to see it her way, and fear I am seeing it with only “Catholic” eyes, but it just doesn’t seem too pushy to me. Perhaps some couples wait until they are engaged, but we are to the point of engagement. She has said she’d accept a proposal today if i were to do so despite all we have been through.

I guess the dilemma we face is, she thinks a proposal should preface a step like RCIA, and I think RCIA is logical for a couple thinking of engagement.

 

[YinYangMom]

HappyCatholic01:

And honestly, I would be amenable to her church IF I had something to go on that was progress for us together. If she attended RCIA, esp. if she became Catholic. And though she swears up and down she will become Catholic if we marry, it scares me to roll the dice. Of course I’d love her and be a great husband either way, but it still scares me.

It just doesn’t make sense to me to say “I am not ready to attend RCIA”, but to say “I look forard to raising a Catholic family, sending our kids to Catholic school, etc”.

What does it take to “be ready” to attend RCIA? It is just info sessions at worst, and a steppign stone to conversion at best. She has pointed to her aunt who attended the Catholic church for about 20+ years, and finally, it took a friend saying to her"why not go through RCIA and become a member" for her to do it. But she has been single ger whole life. i daresay if she was seriously involved with a Catholic man, she would have had different motives.

I wonder if our Protestant friends here (or anywhere) think it is asking too much. I have tried to see it her way, and fear I am seeing it with only “Catholic” eyes, but it just doesn’t seem too pushy to me. Perhaps some couples wait until they are engaged, but we are to the point of engagement. She has said she’d accept a proposal today if i were to do so despite all we have been through.

I guess the dilemma we face is, she thinks a proposal should preface a step like RCIA, and I think RCIA is logical for a couple thinking of engagement.

HappyCatholic,

Take a deep breath.

Relax.

Now, please explain why this post today is about the same as the one you started on September 12th?

Many people have advised you, as you asked.

The question you ask today is similar to the one aswered earlier in the week.

What’s wrong?
What aren’t you understanding about the responses?

Your gut is telling you this is not the woman for you…
people here are telling you this is not the woman for you…

You’re still asking if it’s ok that you don’t ‘settle’ for taking her word that she’ll enroll in RCIA after the engagement.

I don’t understand why you’re still asking the same question.

If you can’t take her word now on a promise about the immediate future (RCIA), what makes you think you’ll be able to trust her “I Do” for the rest of your lives later?

But. if you believe you can trust her I DO later, then why aren’t you trusting the RCIA promise?

What are you expecting to happen between now and then in your heart?

It sounds like you are afraid to lose her.
That if it isn’t her, then what?
Are you afraid you’ll not find your true mate?
That you’ll live alone?

Do you believe it’s possible there is a man out there who can accept your lady as she is, not needing her to change, compromise, anything? If there is, then wouldn’t you want what’s best for your lady, even if it means being with someone else (especially if that’s the guy God intended for her all along)?

Or do you believe you are the man God intended for her? And if so, then quit delaying and get going. Continue to place your trust in God and He’ll make sure everything works out.

 

[lifeisbeautiful]

From Canon Law (may or may not be applicable to you)

**Can. 1102 ß1 Marriage cannot be validly contracted subject to a condition concerning the future. **

I found this regarding mixed marriages that may be applicable to marrying in another church with a non-Catholic preacher
**ß2 If there are *grave difficulties * in the way of observing the canonical form, the local Ordinary of the catholic party has the right to dispense from it in individual cases, having however consulted the Ordinary of the place of the celebration of the marriage; for validity, however, some public form of celebration is required. It is for the Episcopal Conference to establish norms whereby this dispensation may be granted in a uniform manner. ** If you did decide to marry in a Lutheran Church, I would look into it to make sure you have grave enough reasons to not follow canonical form (with a priest/deacon presiding, etc). I was looking quickly, but this is the only place I found that remotely suggested that marrying in another church may be acceptable. I had never heard of it, if anyone finds anything else in canon law that suggests it, please post it, it would be interesting to read.

Also interesting to keep in mind:
ß3 It is forbidden to have, either before or after the canonical celebration in accordance with ß1, another religious celebration of the same marriage for the purpose of giving or renewing matrimonial consent. Likewise, there is not to be a religious celebration in which the catholic assistant and a non-Catholic minister, each performing his own rite, ask for the consent of the parties.

 

[ThyKingdomCome]

Happy Catholic,

I hope I’m not completely repeating what others have said, but I see a few red flags here:

1. In your first post you said that you want to marry a Catholic woman.
2. She said that she would convert immediately after getting married.
3. Now she says that she loves the Catholic Church, but wouldn’t convert unless she is certain (or relatively sure?) that she will be marrying you.

Ok, let’s hit these backwards: #3 - While it’s nice to do something so big for someone you love, do you really want her converting just to snag you? Frankly, it’s hard for me to believe she’s all that impressed by the Church, since she wouldn’t consider converting if you weren’t in her life. Someone who really wanted to become Catholic would do it even if you and she broke up. Because she’d believe the Church is the true religion. That means (to me) that either she may never convert, or if she does she could be one of the many “in name only” Catholics - which can cause as many problems when it comes to raising your kids, since her beliefs won’t be Catholic.

#2 - I don’t trust a statement like, “I’ll convert AFTER we’re married.” Why not before? It sounds very deceptive. What if once you’re married, she says, “I’ll convert AFTER we have kids.” then “I’ll convert WHEN our baby is old enough to make his first communion”…and so on, until you hear “I’m never converting. Hey you married me.” Again, if she is truly serious about converting, there’s no reason it should wait til after the wedding. (Speaking of location of the wedding, someone who truly believed in the Church’s teachings would not risk their soul waiting, just because of the location)

#1 - I’m not bashing interfaith marriages. There are some that are called to be, and they work. And there are some where the spouse eventually converts and for that, Hallelujah! But you said YOU WANT TO MARRY A CATHOLIC. Then it seems like you won’t be able to let her convert (or not) in her own time, because you will be expecting it eventually. And judging by red flags #2 and #3, she may never convert. So I say, if you really want to marry a catholic, wait until she is one, or go find one.

God bless you.
TKC

 

[lifeisbeautiful]

ThyKingdomCome:

Happy Catholic,

I hope I’m not completely repeating what others have said, but I see a few red flags here:

1. In your first post you said that you want to marry a Catholic woman.
2. She said that she would convert immediately after getting married.
3. Now she says that she loves the Catholic Church, but wouldn’t convert unless she is certain (or relatively sure?) that she will be marrying you.

Ok, let’s hit these backwards: #3 - While it’s nice to do something so big for someone you love, do you really want her converting just to snag you? Frankly, it’s hard for me to believe she’s all that impressed by the Church, since she wouldn’t consider converting if you weren’t in her life. Someone who really wanted to become Catholic would do it even if you and she broke up. Because she’d believe the Church is the true religion. That means (to me) that either she may never convert, or if she does she could be one of the many “in name only” Catholics - which can cause as many problems when it comes to raising your kids, since her beliefs won’t be Catholic.

#2 - I don’t trust a statement like, “I’ll convert AFTER we’re married.” Why not before? It sounds very deceptive. What if once you’re married, she says, “I’ll convert AFTER we have kids.” then “I’ll convert WHEN our baby is old enough to make his first communion”…and so on, until you hear “I’m never converting. Hey you married me.” Again, if she is truly serious about converting, there’s no reason it should wait til after the wedding. (Speaking of location of the wedding, someone who truly believed in the Church’s teachings would not risk their soul waiting, just because of the location)

#1 - I’m not bashing interfaith marriages. There are some that are called to be, and they work. And there are some where the spouse eventually converts and for that, Hallelujah! But you said YOU WANT TO MARRY A CATHOLIC. Then it seems like you won’t be able to let her convert (or not) in her own time, because you will be expecting it eventually. And judging by red flags #2 and #3, she may never convert. So I say, if you really want to marry a catholic, wait until she is one, or go find one.

God bless you.
TKC

I totally agree with TKC

 

[YinYangMom]

lifeisbeautiful:

I totally agree with TKC

Me too.

TKC, it was so much a ‘repeat’ as it was a good summary.
Thanks.

You also raised an issue I hadn’t really focused on before:

It does seem uncharitable to force someone into a faith. If he really loves her he’ll let her be who she is and not pressure her to convert either now or later.

But since he absolutely needs a Catholic wife then he should be courting Catholic women.

He is telling her with words his wife must be catholic.
But he is telling her with actions that this may be negotiable.
No wonder she’s holding out.
Which is it?

 

[YinYangMom]

lifeisbeautiful:

From Canon Law (may or may not be applicable to you)

**Can. 1102 ß1 Marriage cannot be validly contracted subject to a condition concerning the future. **

I found this regarding mixed marriages that may be applicable to marrying in another church with a non-Catholic preacher
**ß2 If there are *grave difficulties ***in the way of observing the canonical form, the local Ordinary of the catholic party has the right to dispense from it in individual cases, having however consulted the Ordinary of the place of the celebration of the marriage; for validity, however, some public form of celebration is required. It is for the Episcopal Conference to establish norms whereby this dispensation may be granted in a uniform manner. If you did decide to marry in a Lutheran Church, I would look into it to make sure you have grave enough reasons to not follow canonical form (with a priest/deacon presiding, etc). I was looking quickly, but this is the only place I found that remotely suggested that marrying in another church may be acceptable. I had never heard of it, if anyone finds anything else in canon law that suggests it, please post it, it would be interesting to read.

Also interesting to keep in mind:
ß3 It is forbidden to have, either before or after the canonical celebration in accordance with ß1, another religious celebration of the same marriage for the purpose of giving or renewing matrimonial consent. Likewise, there is not to be a religious celebration in which the catholic assistant and a non-Catholic minister, each performing his own rite, ask for the consent of the parties.

Wow.
That’s really interesting.

 

[HappyCatholic01]

YinYangMom:

He is telling her with words his wife must be catholic.
But he is telling her with actions that this may be negotiable.
No wonder she’s holding out.
Which is it?

This is probably true. I told her from day 1 that I wanted to marry a Catholic woman, wanted a unified family, and wanted my children to be raised catholic (non-negotiable).

When she hedged at the one year mark on converting once we were married, what did i do? I said “I guess so”, since I didn’t want to throw down the gauntlet, and risk losing her. Actions, not words. Yet she didn’t seem to be concerned about losing me, at least enough to not change her mind…

I told her 10 days ago that I wanted us to attend, and as I said, she said “she wasn’t ready.” She said she wanst to continue to grow and learn with me, but it has to be natural on her time, not forced. We ended it by saying we were at an impasse, and we would consider the other person’s position and feelings while we were apart.

Thenh, she called me the next day, came over, we talked, and had an enjoyable weekend. Which completely submarined what we had just gone through. I am guessing she feels my willingness to spend time with her is implicit acdeptance of her decision, but it isn’t. Now I have to bring it up, AGAIN.

Sad thing is, I guess I am afraid that I won’t find someone who loves me or is as devoted to me as she is. Silly, I know. I just look at the future without her and see a huge hole. Yet when I am single, and not in love, I have always loved it, and be quite happy. I don’t really have problems meeting women, and I have met a few Catholic women who would love to go out. But I feel that is unfair until I get my heart and head screwed on right and this settled. I just wish i was less hesitant o take a stand, and I am afraid I will look back and say “if only I had been more patient.” I’d hate that if I felt I had given up on a good girl.

Sorry for the rambling, everyone’s advice has been quite helpful, and reminded me how lucky we are to be Catholic.

 

[YinYangMom]

HappyCatholic01:

Then, she called me the next day, came over, we talked, and had an enjoyable weekend. Which completely submarined what we had just gone through. I am guessing she feels my willingness to spend time with her is implicit acdeptance of her decision, but it isn’t. Now I have to bring it up, AGAIN.

Yes, it is. She’s right to interpret your actions the way she is.
You are wrong for sending her mixed signals.
You don’t need to bring it up, AGAIN, or EVER again.
Just stop acting contrary to your words.

Sad thing is, I guess I am afraid that I won’t find someone who loves me or is as devoted to me as she is.

She isn’t devoted to you. She’s devoted to the relationship. Big difference.

Silly, I know. I just look at the future without her and see a huge hole. Yet when I am single, and not in love, I have always loved it, and be quite happy. I don’t really have problems meeting women, and I have met a few Catholic women who would love to go out. But I feel that is unfair until I get my heart and head screwed on right and this settled.** I just wish i was less hesitant to take a stand**, and I am afraid I will look back and say “if only I had been more patient.” I’d hate that if I felt I had given up on a good girl.

Hmmm…why **are **you so hesitant?
Again, your actions are not representing your words.
You profess yourself to be a devout Catholic who insistst on raising a Catholic family, marrying a Catholic woman,
and yet, you do not trust in the Lord enough to let Him lead you.

You are afraid if you say “yes” to her, she will let you down.
You are afraid if you say “no” to her, you will lose her.
You are afraid you won’t find another woman to marry.

You say you are not afraid to be alone.
But the way you cling to the prospect of being so close to marriage with this woman, who does not meet your standards, says you are afraid to be alone, especially when you think there will be no other woman to fill your expectations of this one.

Marriage is as much a calling as Holy Orders.
It may be quite possible that you are not meant to marry.
You should be comfortable with that possibility especially if you are as devout as you are, because you would fill your time serving the Lord through your parish and prayer.
If marriage is your calling, as you appear to want it to be, then you must trust in the Lord to show you which woman it is He designed for you.

The indications so far do not suggest this is the woman the Lord has chosen, and yet your hesitation indicates you do not trust Him after all.

Pray to discern His will in this matter.
Pray to follow through on whatever that may be.
Pray to put a stop to the hesitation and the mixed signals.
May your actions confirm your words and thoughts from this day forward.

 

[HappyCatholic01]

I figured I’d update you guys on things since you took the time to give me some advice and insight. Thanks again, I appreciate everyone’s help immensely.

I finally spoke to the girl in question Friday night (actually, wrote her a letter so my thoughts would be coherent and well-formulated), and told me she thought the whole thing was immature. She said she thought it was premature to go to RCIA.

She said she wants to go when she is ready so she can go and convert once it is over. I explained to her it is informational only, and a lot of people go without converting. For whatever reason, she doesn’t feel comfortable going. It is very frustrating, since I have asked everyone from Catholics to Protestants to avowed Atheists and they all agreed that it was not unreasonable, as discussed above.

So, I don’t think she and I will be speaking anymore; she thought I was asking for everything my way, and not sacrificing at all (to me, considering marriage in a non-Catholic church is a sacrifice in and of itself). She said she has grown a lot in the past 2 years (and she has) and wanted to continue to grow, but at her own pace. I just feel like RCIA would be a good faith gesture to show she is serious about this. I am 30; I don’t want to wait 5 years for someone who or may not come around. She seems SO convincing, but from what I have read on these forums and in this thread alone, people do NOT always follow through or turn out the way they “indicate”. I don’t like being viewed as the bad guy, which is probably how it is right now to her and her family, but what else could I do?

Anyway, thanks for the advice, I am proud I stood up for my faith, and at the same time saddened her Catholic journey may not continue with me.

 

[LSK]

I’m so sorry that you are sad, but I just know that someone wonderful is being prepared for you…and I want you (listen to your Cyber Aunt:tsktsk: ) to start a Novena to St. Therese of Liseux right NOW and let the Little Flower shower you with roses…you deserve it.

 

[genealogist]

I can sypmathize because I too told my wife on our third date that I enjoyed spending time with her but wanted to make sure that she knoew I was Catholic, would be married by a priest and raise all kids Catholic. If that was agreeable let’s keep dating, if not let’s be friends and avoid becoming engaged in a couple of years and be unable to agree on a church location and raising children.

Your girlfriend sounds great but from experience I tell you love is not enough. You have to have to be one with this. For twelve years I have tried to get her more interested in church hers or mine. She rarely goes. That would be fine if I were allowed to go more than the Mass each Sunday that she begrudgingly allows. Christmas is about dinner and gifts and not Mass. I have to fight for that too. It is said to have to battle 58 times a year. What the heck did she think Catholics do? We met at a Catholic college after all.

Your sweety sounds more God oriented than mine but do not settle. Find a Catholic girl. Sweety should convert because it is true. If she thinks the Church is THE Church there should be no delay. If she joining for you that is not a good enough reason. There is a reason these marriages are warned against. I have much more ecumenical advice to those in mixed marriages but my advice to you is to move on. She is nice I am sure but you are not being impatient. Even if she converted this Sunday I would look elsewhere.

 

[username01]

HappyCatholic01:

Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to get some advice and value the opinions I have seen on here.

I have recently starting dating my ex girlfriend again. We dated for about 15 months, and stopped for about 3 months. Back when we first met, I made it clear when we began dating that I wanted to marry a Catholic woman, and would be raising my family Catholic. She (a Lutheran), was onboard, and said she had no problem converting. I repeated this assertion again as the relationship developed, and she again had no problem. We attend mass weekly, and she has expressed her sadness at times at not being able to receive the Eucharist. She makes the sign of the cross, says the prayers, she pretty much does everything but receive the Eucharist. I am 30, and she is 25, fyi.

A year into our relationship, she told me she realized after attending a Christmas service at her old church with her family that she really wanted to get married in that church, as she grew up there. This really disappointed me, but we didn’t break up. She has said she has no problem becoming Catholic as soon as we are married, she just wants to be able to be married in her church. This has frustrated me, as both she and her family rarely attend that church. When we were not dating this summer, she attended mass a number of times with her aunt who converted to Catholicism.

I was originally open to a dispensation (more so from fear of losing her), but the more I have thought about it, I don’t think I want to do that. Catholicism means everything to me. From my perspective, her plan is one of selfishness and not taking things very seriously. Marriage is serious business. She agrees to convert and become Catholic, and raise the children Catholic, and we attend Mass weekly now while we are just dating, yet we are going to start our lives together in the Lutheran Church? That doesn’t make any sense.

I have been thinking that I want to tell her I can’t see getting married in another Church, and I really want her to attend RCIA with me. I want to tell her before we get too serious again. She resisted RCIA before (I think because she feels like if she attended, and converted, she wouldn’t then be able to get married in her church. Again, this seems silly and immature to me.) I know some people who refuse to take a stand for the faith, and I hate that, but I don’t want to be blindly obstinate and lose everyone around me who doesn’t fit the mold I want. She is conservative, moral, we have discussed the importance of NFP, etc., and is a great girl, and I do love her a lot. I just wonder if that is enough.

Am I being unfair or too harsh in making this stand? I don’t want us to get too serious and have this train wreck occur down the road, but I don’t want to impose unfair stipulations either. Any advice is greatly appreciated; I have lost much sleep mover this.

Thanks much!

I think you are being too harsh. Is it really that important which building you get married in? You will still receive the SACRAMENT! That is the part that counts. You could marry in the woods in the middle of nowhere, and God would still be there joining you.

Here you have found a woman who you love, who recognizes the importance of NFP (single digit percentages of Catholics use it), conservative, moral… and you’re being picky because she wants to marry in the building she attended services in since she was young?

Come on!

 

[username01]

HappyCatholic01:

So, I don’t think she and I will be speaking anymore; she thought I was asking for everything my way, and not sacrificing at all (to me, considering marriage in a non-Catholic church is a sacrifice in and of itself). She said she has grown a lot in the past 2 years (and she has) and wanted to continue to grow, but at her own pace. I just feel like RCIA would be a good faith gesture to show she is serious about this. I am 30; I don’t want to wait 5 years for someone who or may not come around. She seems SO convincing, but from what I have read on these forums and in this thread alone, people do NOT always follow through or turn out the way they “indicate”. I don’t like being viewed as the bad guy, which is probably how it is right now to her and her family, but what else could I do?

Anyway, thanks for the advice, I am proud I stood up for my faith, and at the same time saddened her Catholic journey may not continue with me.

It seems like you didn’t really love her. Guys like you should wear signs so that girls like me don’t fall for you.

 

[YinYangMom]

username01:

I think you are being too harsh. Is it really that important which building you get married in? You will still receive the SACRAMENT! That is the part that counts. You could marry in the woods in the middle of nowhere, and God would still be there joining you.

Here you have found a woman who you love, who recognizes the importance of NFP (single digit percentages of Catholics use it), conservative, moral… and you’re being picky because she wants to marry in the building she attended services in since she was young?

Come on!

The sacramental part isn’t the most important thing here…it’s the kids. So she ‘says’ she’ll practice NFP. She ‘says’ she’ll raise the children Catholic.

But how can anyone promise something they don’t know about?
How can she be so sure she’ll be comfortable raising their children Catholic when she isn’t even interested now in finding out what that entails?

As a someday-mother-to-be, I would think getting the basics down before saying, ‘Yes, I can do that’ is rather important.

An uninformed “yes” is not something one can hang their hat on. This is what HappyCatholic is saying. When the literary and lectionary resources are readily available but the person who says they love you and wants to convert insists on not even accessing those resources until after the “I do’s” there’s something not right about the picture.

Why should he risk the future of his children with someone who isn’t even interested in finding out about the promise she’s about to make?

 

[YinYangMom]

username01:

It seems like you didn’t really love her. Guys like you should wear signs so that girls like me don’t fall for you.

Love is important.
It’s not everything.
Trust those of us who know.
There’s a whole heck of a lot of faith and trust supporting that love.
This woman’s resistance to taking in information about the sacrament she’s about to enter into suggests she is not as trustworthy as one should be going into a lifetime committment.

 

[HappyCatholic01]

username01:

It seems like you didn’t really love her. Guys like you should wear signs so that girls like me don’t fall for you.

Oh come on. Do you think I posted on this website multiple times in this thread if this didn’t tear at me? Have you not see the trail of broken marriages, divorces, and turmoil within marriage around you? You don’t think these people were in love?? They certainly did. Love MAY get you through the first year; it takes much more than that to have a successful marriage. Your advice runs contrary to everyone else’s in this thread, why is that?

And please respond back, I am curious why you think that, and why you doubt my love.

What do you think of her “love” if she wasn’t willing to attend class one night a week on that which is the most important thing in the world to me?

As I pointed out, I told her the FIRST time we went out that I wanted to marry a Catholic woman, and raise my children Catholic. If that isn’t a “sign”, then I’d say you are blind. And as most relationships go, the first year was bliss, and I heard all the right things: I’ll become Catholic if we marry, etc. Then, the rose was off the bloom, and promises aren’t that fun to keep any more.
And to be honest, I did think she’d probably become Catholic after we married. But so did everyone who has been through this before, and look at the results in many cases. That’s why I didn’t trust my feelings.

If you want guys with no principles to stand by to wear signs so you can fall for them, you are setting yourself up for failure. Go right ahead. What makes you think she’ll be sincere about NFP, etc. if she back peddled on being Catholic before marriage, and even attending RCIA? Would YOU trust that?

Again, I am curious of your thoughts on this.

The issue was NOT the church we would be married in. All I asked was that she attend RCIA with me to learn more about the Church if she was going to say that she wuld raise the children Catholic, and become Catholic herself. I told her if she attended RCIA, I’d even marry her in her Lutheran Church, (which makes ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE for a couple who is going to be Catholic and raise their children Catholic), but yet, I said “I understand how that is for brides-to-be, and I know it is a bigger deal for you than me.” Never mind the fact that my devoutly Catholic family would be there, inclduing my Aunt who is a nun (Sister of Notre Dame De Namur), and many others. Never mind her family NEVER attends church. But, I’d do it, because it meant a lot to her.

Look around this website. Do you really think RCIA was unreasonable?

Given that she wouldn’t take some classes on the most important thing in the world to me, I’d say on the contrary, she didn’t truly love me.

 

[HappyCatholic01]

YinYangMom:

The sacramental part isn’t the most important thing here…it’s the kids. So she ‘says’ she’ll practice NFP. She ‘says’ she’ll raise the children Catholic.

But how can anyone promise something they don’t know about?
How can she be so sure she’ll be comfortable raising their children Catholic when she isn’t even interested now in finding out what that entails?

As a someday-mother-to-be, I would think getting the basics down before saying, ‘Yes, I can do that’ is rather important.

An uninformed “yes” is not something one can hang their hat on. This is what HappyCatholic is saying. When the literary and lectionary resources are readily available but the person who says they love you and wants to convert insists on not even accessing those resources until after the “I do’s” there’s something not right about the picture.

Why should he risk the future of his children with someone who isn’t even interested in finding out about the promise she’s about to make?

Exactly. In a sense, I am trying to protect her as well. Some people have a tendency to say almost anything (and often, they are sincere at the time) to have what they desire - relationships most commonly - but later when reality hits and it is time to cash in those promises, it isn’t as “fun” or easy any more. And when it comes to our faith, wow, is that a huge deal. THE deal, IMO. I can compormise on everything else, and would gladly do so (and generally do, I am an easy going guy; I have mastered saying “sure, sounds good to me sweetie!”), but as Catholics what it comes down to is the fact that our souls and the souls of our children are on the line, and I don’t think God will look kindly on me if I disregard this responsibility because “I just loved her so much”. I’d say Jesus loved His people a lot as well…

Wow, I sound like such a cynic. But the fact that of the 12 people I wotk with, 11 are on second marriages leads me to believe that this prudence was not ill conceived.

 

[BillP]

HappyCatholic01,

I don’t believe your GF had any objection to RCIA or conversion. I do believe she was converting because of you. And the fact that she was willing to convert FOR YOU shows me how committed she was to your relationship. SHE was willing to become Catholic because that’s what it took to build a life with you.

I think you hit the nail on the head. If she attends RCIA and converts before your marriage she won’t be able to realize her dream of getting married in her own church. Hence her resistence to attending RCIA at this time.

Is it possible that your insistence on her attending RCIA is based on you not wanting to get married in her church despite the fact that you appear to have at one point agreed (at least in principal) to do so?

You’ve also mentioned that you have some “trust issue”. You are questioning whether she will follow through on her promises, to convert, to raise the children Catholic etc.

IMHO it appears from here that those trust issues are unwarranted. As far as I’ve read in your postings, she’s given you no reason to suspect that she is being untruthful or deceiving about her intentions.

Is it possible that those “trust issues” are just ammunition to justify getting her to RCIA, and thus getting your own way about the wedding?

From my perspective I see this girl being willing to make some pretty Major League sacrifices to be with you but asking for a bit more time. I don’t see much flexibility on your part.

What’s your rush? If she needs time, she needs time. If she needs the two of you be further along in discernment before she converts why is that an issue with you?