Intersex Surgeries

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I am reminded that on the official records of the Church (i.e., baptismal records) it is recorded that the person is male or female. There are no other choices. And the Church will not change those records for the mentally trouble people who think they are one of 52 “genders.” There are only two sexes.
 
Oh, certainly medical people can be are influenced by the fads of our times, but as I said, this must be evaluated without the fads of our time (e.g, transgenders, 52 genders, I “feel” I am a girls so I get to go into the girls locker room nonsense.
 
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So what you put down for a child with both a vagina and penis?
 
BroIgnatius said:
but as I said, this must be evaluated without the fads of our time (e.g, transgenders, 52 genders, I “feel” I am a girls so I get to go into the girls locker room nonsense
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I already said I’m discussing intersex, not transgender. So irrelevant.
 
Usagi said:
Why are we so sure that it is an ontological or theological reality as well, such that to God even a person who doesn’t fit into the most common categories must “really” be one or the other? God isn’t biologically male or female, after all, though we usually speak of Him in the masculine.
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“God made them Male and Female.” We’re not pure spirits. God and the Angels have no sex. However, we’re meant to have both a physical body and an immortal soul. We’ll be resurrected as a male or a female.
Usagi said:
If a soul has a sex, that sounds to me like the defect in a transgender person is in the body,
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I believe that this is correct. God provides the soul and doesn’t make a mistake.
Usagi said:
If the fallen world can produce for someone a body of indeterminate sex (or missing limbs or whatever) without that being God’s fault, why can’t it saddle a male soul with a typically-female body or vice versa?
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Unfortunately, due to the corruption of this world, we’ve all been marred. On the Last Day we’ll receive our New bodies as they were intended. However, I don’t believe anyone will come back as the opposite sex.
Usagi said:
Would you insist that I upend my entire life, leave my husband, and start living as a man at nearly 50 if that turned out to be the case?
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I’m not your Doctor.
 
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guanophore said:
We (human beings) are responsible for them. I mean that in the sense that, though we did not personally cause them, we are the ones who must take responsibility for dealing with the results.

God does not always miraculously intervene on the natural consequences of the Fall.

That is certainly part of the suffering (I am sure there is more). I think this source of this is also the result of the Fall.
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The concept of original sin has been paid for by Jesus and washed by Baptism. I do not buy that original sin causes my condition. The church is clear that original sin is not my personal sin. I am who I am and God made me that way, why, who knows. But why do I get to be born in a part of the world in which I can have good water, plenty of food, a stable society and so on? I’m fortunate.

God looks for us to praise Him, not bear some sort of cross, that’s such a sad way to look at faith. Our call is to pull those up who were less materially fortunate than us. I’ve been to Africa more than a few times and Haiti twice. I cannot believe a whole population was made to suffer, there is plenty joy in those countries.
guanophore said:
Are you saying that God created certain persons to have this condition?
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Yeah, as much as I’m an Epileptic. But I can take possession of that situation and make it a way to broaden my experience of life. The role of society is to make it more suitable for people that fall out of the “norm”.
 
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Intersex conditions occur in better 0.5% to 1% of people, they’re not that rare. And I’m interested in how we treat it in society because it seems a group of people are being subjected to invasive surgery that they don’t choose. It seems important to me to learn about, much like learning about other forms of potential harm.

And this just issue in particular is interesting as some of the surgeries, such as removing gonads, does decrease a cancer risk. So it’s a very real consideration for people to make.
 
Hey Lea. Check out the video I linked at the start; they give a good run down of common surgeries given to intersex infants and children.

The surgeries that reduce a cancer risk seem the hardest to decide on. But purely aesthetic one’s like reducing a child’s clitoris or performing vaginoplasties seem to go too far in my opinion.
 
Howdy. Did you check out that video I linked at the start? That woman has XY chromosomes and her body produces androgens, but cannot recognise them. She developed as a woman with a vagina, beasts, etc. What should have been done in her case? I’m intrigued.
 
PJH_74 said:
The concept of original sin has been paid for by Jesus and washed by Baptism.
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Jesus did not die to pay for “concepts”.

What is washed in baptism is not Concupiscence.

What ill effects occur as the result of the fall when the egg and sperm come together cannot be prevented by a baptism that occurs after birth.
PJH_74 said:
I do not buy that original sin causes my condition.
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I don’t think anyone was “selling” that. What the Church teaches is that there are many evils in the world that resulted from the Fall.
PJH_74 said:
I am who I am and God made me that way, why, who knows.
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God allows certain things to happen that are against His perfect will.
PJH_74 said:
God looks for us to praise Him, not bear some sort of cross, that’s such a sad way to look at faith.
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Both things are true. He commands us to pick up our cross and carry it, and to carry it with the joy that only the Holy Spirit can bring.
PJH_74 said:
I’ve been to Africa more than a few times and Haiti twice. I cannot believe a whole population was made to suffer
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Are you claiming that the people don’t suffer?
 
Hey 😊 follow up question; how should these individuals be named and treated? Stick to gender neutral names for instance? Should they dress male or do you feel attire shouldn’t be gendered?
 
guanophore said:
Are you claiming that the people don’t suffer?
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Are you claiming people have to suffer? My point being, if we are use the terms of cross and suffering, I see none. What I do see is humans working together to perfect the human condition.
 
I was agreeing with you, and just giving examples of fads. The point is that with intersex, the movement will be to allow the kids to just “feel” what they are. This is to be avoided. Very Relevant.
 
Not relevant. External genitalia can be fixed according to one is actually male or female
 
PJH_74 said:
Are you claiming people have to suffer?
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No, it was Jesus who did.

Matthew 10:38 "And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me.

If you think taking up a cross does not include suffering, then you don’t understand what crucifixion is.

Matthew 16:24
Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me.

If others are suffering, we are to partake of their suffering. 1 Corinthians 12:26
And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; if one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it.

2 Timothy 2:3
Suffer hardship with me, as a good soldier of Christ Jesus.

1 Peter 4:19
Therefore, those also who suffer according to the will of God shall entrust their souls to a faithful Creator in doing what is right.

Christian suffering is redemptive.
PJH_74 said:
My point being, if we are use the terms of cross and suffering, I see none.
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Perhaps, in that case, you have no need to be a disciple of Christ.
PJH_74 said:
What I do see is humans working together to perfect the human condition.
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This is a very humanist perspective!
 
BroIgnatius said:
Not relevant. External genitalia can be fixed according to one is actually male or female
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It is relevant. You have to put something down, so what is it? Surgeries that young are not supported by the majority of pediatricians or psychologists.
 
There’s no Gene Therapy Treatment for AIS. They’re always going to look and be perceived as feminine. How they present themselves to the world is up to them.

Here’s an even BIGGER QUESTION: How would the Catholic Church view them Marrying?
 
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